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Old 01-20-2011, 09:43 AM   #1
rudder
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Default Chavez to rule by decree for one year... ooops I meant to say obama

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...112103698.html

His intentions are good... but we all know the saying about good intentions. People not in the obama camp have been saying for a year that this was his plan.... to bypass congress and legislate his agenda through his czars and secretaries of the various government agencies.

Obama thinks this will save time and money... but as with the case of net neutrality and the FCC... there will be a big court battle for this new regulation. Here we have a regulatory agency re-writing a law. These executive orders will allow the EPA and other departments to enabled legislation that could raise everyone's energy bill (see cap and trade vote).

When you change regulations via congress... things can get held up by partisan bickering, special interests, conflicting regulations... but do they still need to be taken out of the loop in regards to laws? Plus as soon as a new president is elected they can countermand those executive orders.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudder View Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...112103698.html

His intentions are good... but we all know the saying about good intentions. People not in the obama camp have been saying for a year that this was his plan.... to bypass congress and legislate his agenda through his czars and secretaries of the various government agencies.

Obama thinks this will save time and money... but as with the case of net neutrality and the FCC... there will be a big court battle for this new regulation. Here we have a regulatory agency re-writing a law. These executive orders will allow the EPA and other departments to enabled legislation that could raise everyone's energy bill (see cap and trade vote).

When you change regulations via congress... things can get held up by partisan bickering, special interests, conflicting regulations... but do they still need to be taken out of the loop in regards to laws? Plus as soon as a new president is elected they can countermand those executive orders.
Err from the article it seems he's reducing the regulation and getting more industry feedback rather than having legislators play their game via lobbyists. Don't see anything wrong with that.

FDA, DOT, FCC etc. all need to be impartial bodies of regulation, rather being pulled into the principal agent issue of congress ... otherwise you'd never get any regulation for things that impacts many congressional district. In the end, you end up with bad regulation and that's even before getting the issue of public policy.


Every time there was a push for higher gas milage standards (arguably good policy for the US), Levin would get all up in arms saying "no now is not a good time for that, it will hurt detroit"... till gas prices wiped them out.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:06 AM   #3
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It's not the Executive Branch's (which means FDA, DOT, FCC, etc) job to make laws (or regulation).

That's Congress' job. The Executive Branch is just there to make sure that the laws made by the Legislature are upheld. That should be the purpose of regulatory agencies. They should not have any say in policy changes other than in a strictly advisory role. Any policy changes should come directly from Congress.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudder View Post
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...112103698.html

His intentions are good... but we all know the saying about good intentions. People not in the obama camp have been saying for a year that this was his plan.... to bypass congress and legislate his agenda through his czars and secretaries of the various government agencies.

Obama thinks this will save time and money... but as with the case of net neutrality and the FCC... there will be a big court battle for this new regulation. Here we have a regulatory agency re-writing a law. These executive orders will allow the EPA and other departments to enabled legislation that could raise everyone's energy bill (see cap and trade vote).

When you change regulations via congress... things can get held up by partisan bickering, special interests, conflicting regulations... but do they still need to be taken out of the loop in regards to laws? Plus as soon as a new president is elected they can countermand those executive orders.
Did you read the article that you linked or did you mis-link the article?
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik View Post

Every time there was a push for higher gas milage standards (arguably good policy for the US), Levin would get all up in arms saying "no now is not a good time for that, it will hurt detroit"... till gas prices wiped them out.
I understand that and pointed out that needed regulations in congress can by stymied by partisan bickery and special interests. My question is it wise to remove the legislative branch from these regulations?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politi...ainst-gop-hill

The OP link was to Obama's statement. The link above discussed his perceived plan to use more executive powers to bypass a split legislative branch.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:17 AM   #6
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Did you read the article that you linked or did you mis-link the article?
Not an article... a statement from obama. An executive order to have all agencies submit changes and such concerning current regulations.

My question is these regulations were put in place by congress. It appears that obama will utilize executive orders to bypass congress on changes. Which would probably get things done... but again is it wise to bypass the legislative branch?

Will these changes include items that were voted down by congress?
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudder View Post
I understand that and pointed out that needed regulations in congress can by stymied by partisan bickery and special interests. My question is it wise to remove the legislative branch from these regulations?

http://washingtonexaminer.com/politi...ainst-gop-hill

The OP link was to Obama's statement. The link above discussed his perceived plan to use more executive powers to bypass a split legislative branch.
Ummm, congress gave the power to those regulatory boards. If they step out of line of the powers given to them then congress has the ability to deal with that.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:18 AM   #8
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You also might have missed this at the end:

"Despite a lot of heated rhetoric, our efforts over the past two years to modernize our regulations have led to smarter—and in some cases tougher—rules to protect our health, safety and environment. Yet according to current estimates of their economic impact, the benefits of these regulations exceed their costs by billions of dollars. "
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IBMer View Post
You also might have missed this at the end:

"Despite a lot of heated rhetoric, our efforts over the past two years to modernize our regulations have led to smarteróand in some cases tougherórules to protect our health, safety and environment. Yet according to current estimates of their economic impact, the benefits of these regulations exceed their costs by billions of dollars. "
Which is completely unprovable.

And entirely unlikely.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:38 AM   #10
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Wow, OP. Just wow. Whether you like executive orders or not, don't get on a ridiculous partisan high horse and act like this is something new, or make flat out dishonest analogies to Chavez. I'm not sure if you could possibly exaggerate more.

Grow up - crap like this is what's wrong with politics - and I don't even support what he's doing here!
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:40 AM   #11
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Rudder finally jumps the shark.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:44 AM   #12
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So, regulatory agencies that were created by acts of Congress and have the power to make rules and regulations are doing their job. And Obama has signed an executive order telling these regulatory agencies to streamline, cut costs, and improve the way they work to help the nation. And you relate this to Chavez?

Seriously, partisanship really makes some people stupid.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:04 PM   #13
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I actually like what he has to say in that article. The trick will be follow-up however.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudder View Post
Not an article... a statement from obama. An executive order to have all agencies submit changes and such concerning current regulations.

My question is these regulations were put in place by congress. It appears that obama will utilize executive orders to bypass congress on changes. Which would probably get things done... but again is it wise to bypass the legislative branch?

Will these changes include items that were voted down by congress?
I've got news for you. Congress doesn't have anything to do with a vast amount of regulation. Congress long ago abdicated that role and gave it to unelected bureaucrats.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:16 PM   #15
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The wording sounds nice but is laden with vague platitudes. I find it interesting that he specifically mentions the need to improve how things are regulated and improve our health and safety, mentions the FDA and then says nothing about how poorly their food inspectors are funded and how handicapped they are. But who cares if facilities go uninspected for years (even if they had violations and the FDA recommended they go back to make sure the violations were fixed) because we fixed how saccharin is handled....

I do really hope he can follow through on the regulations issue for small businesses but I don’t have a lot of faith in our government. I mean I haven’t seen much streamlining in our regulations yet. The health care bill certainly didn’t do any streamlining. Neither did the credit card laws (what a valuable piece of legislation that was. It really bothers me that it was seen that this was more important than oversight of our food supply)

Certainly this isn’t all Obama’s fault but I haven’t seen much out of his office that makes me think any real progress has been made in ‘overhauling the regulatory system’*

I did think this was funny:
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Mr. Obama is president of the United States
*I don't know if thats because the it never gets media attention or because little has been done
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:29 PM   #16
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I enjoyed the read and it did not come off to me like the OP had described. The whole bypassing of Congress thing is worrisome, but if they have a problem with it they can always try to impeach his ass for it.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drebo View Post
It's not the Executive Branch's (which means FDA, DOT, FCC, etc) job to make laws (or regulation).

That's Congress' job. The Executive Branch is just there to make sure that the laws made by the Legislature are upheld. That should be the purpose of regulatory agencies. They should not have any say in policy changes other than in a strictly advisory role. Any policy changes should come directly from Congress.
I believe that's not quite true. In order to execute laws a President is able to instruct the various agencies as to how it's to be done. If a law says one thing but has not been followed in favor of political or other reasons, he does not need the approval of congress. That is the very nature of his constitutional charge.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:09 PM   #18
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I enjoyed the read and it did not come off to me like the OP had described. The whole bypassing of Congress thing is worrisome, but if they have a problem with it they can always try to impeach his ass for it.
Executive orders can be thrown out by the next president. And sure it was a good read... mayeb I read too much into it. But here we have an administration that has already shown it's propensity to skirt around house/senate votes when needed regarding high profile agenda issues.

To all the whiners... did you not see the issue with the FCC regarding net neutrality? the FCC expanded their authority despite being told by the courts they could not do that. Maybe the topic is not clear enough I suppose. Well we will see how this plays out...and if these rules eventually go into effect through executive order.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:30 PM   #19
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Quote:
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Executive orders can be thrown out by the next president. And sure it was a good read... mayeb I read too much into it. But here we have an administration that has already shown it's propensity to skirt around house/senate votes when needed regarding high profile agenda issues.

To all the whiners... did you not see the issue with the FCC regarding net neutrality? the FCC expanded their authority despite being told by the courts they could not do that. Maybe the topic is not clear enough I suppose. Well we will see how this plays out...and if these rules eventually go into effect through executive order.
The issue is that you don't understand the executive branch.

Congress gave these functions to regulatory boards through legislation. Its the job of the executive branch to guide how laws are enforced. If one of these regulatory boards goes past their power given by congress, it is up to congress and the supreme court to say so. Obama is doing no "skirting" like you put it at all.
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:35 PM   #20
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Fuck, you guys just ruined Rudders comparison of Obama to Chavez. He's gonna be bummed.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:12 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drebo View Post
It's not the Executive Branch's (which means FDA, DOT, FCC, etc) job to make laws (or regulation).

That's Congress' job. The Executive Branch is just there to make sure that the laws made by the Legislature are upheld. That should be the purpose of regulatory agencies. They should not have any say in policy changes other than in a strictly advisory role. Any policy changes should come directly from Congress.
No. The Executive branch agencies makes regulations from statutes.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:26 PM   #22
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Even when Obama does what Righties want, they find ways to condemn him for it.

It must be wrong, because he's doing it, right?

And when GWB did it, it was peachy, of course.

Absolute drivel.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:23 PM   #23
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You know who else liked czars? Kaiser Wilhelm!

In fact, he was even related to one! Obama is just like the Kaiser!

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