Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > Video Cards and Graphics

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals
· Free Stuff
· Contests and Sweepstakes
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-19-2011, 08:11 PM   #1
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default PCI Express riser with high performance graphics card

Hi everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone has experience running a PCI express riser card such as this one:
http://www.amazon.com/2PORT-PCIE16-L.../dp/B002M1DHJG

with a fairly high performance graphics card. I know these riser cards are normally for server applications so I wasn't sure if there would be any issues.

Also, would using a riser card billed as Gen 1 PCI-e work out? Would it limit me to Gen 1 speeds or are Gen 1 and Gen 2 riser cards physically identical?

I'm thinking about designing a custom slimline enclosure using a Radeon 5770

Thanks
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:07 PM   #2
MarkLuvsCS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
PCI-SIG announced the availability of the PCI Express Base 2.0 specification on 15 January 2007.[10] The PCIe 2.0 standard doubles the per-lane throughput from the PCIe 1.0 standard's 250 MB/s to 500 MB/s. This means a 32-lane PCI connector (x32) can support throughput up to 16 GB/s aggregate. The PCIe 2.0 standard uses a base clock speed of 5.0 GHz, while the first version operates at 2.5 GHz.

PCIe 2.0 motherboard slots are fully backward compatible with PCIe v1.x cards. PCIe 2.0 cards are also generally backward compatible with PCIe 1.x motherboards, using the available bandwidth of PCI Express 1.1. Overall, graphic cards or motherboards designed for v 2.0 will be able to work with the other being v 1.1 or v 1.0.

The PCI-SIG also said that PCIe 2.0 features improvements to the point-to-point data transfer protocol and its software architecture.[11]

In June 2007 Intel released the specification of the Intel P35 chipset which supports only PCIe 1.1, not PCIe 2.0.[12] Some people may be confused by the P35 block diagram which states the Intel P35 has a PCIe x16 graphics link (8 GB/s) and 6 PCIe x1 links (500 MB/s each).[13] For simple verification one can view the P965 block diagram which shows the same number of lanes and bandwidth but was released before PCIe 2.0 was finalized.[original research?] Intel's first PCIe 2.0 capable chipset was the X38 and boards began to ship from various vendors (Abit, Asus, Gigabyte) as of October 21, 2007.[14] AMD started supporting PCIe 2.0 with its AMD 700 chipset series and nVidia started with the MCP72.[15] The specification of the Intel P45 chipset includes PCIe 2.0.
Physically it should be identical and since the bus is backwards compatible it shouldn't matter. The bandwith from a single card shouldn't hinder performance.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/...x16_vs_x16x8/6

shows virtually zero difference between x8 and x16 so i imagine PCI v1 vs v2 would have minimal impact if the PCI-E v1 would be running x16.
__________________
My Heatware
MarkLuvsCS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2011, 10:25 PM   #3
WhoBeDaPlaya
Diamond Member
 
WhoBeDaPlaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 5,637
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkLuvsCS View Post
shows virtually zero difference between x8 and x16 so i imagine PCI v1 vs v2 would have minimal impact if the PCI-E v1 would be running x16.
Even PCI-E v2 4x / PCI-E v1 8x doesn't impact performance too much (~5%).
__________________
BlueSmoke.net
Silverstone Temjin TJ09S - 4770K @ 4.55GHz - MSI Z87-GD65 - 32GB Crucial Ballistix Elite 1866 CL9 - MSI Twin Frozr 780 - X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro - BFG EX-1000 - Antec Kuhler 920 - 6x Noctua NF-P12 - Samsung 840 500GB - Samsung F3 1TB - OptiArc 7261S - Logitech G19 - 2x Klipsch Promedia 2.1
WhoBeDaPlaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 07:39 AM   #4
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default

Thanks guys. Has anyone actually used one of this?

I'm worried about a riser such as this:
http://www.camera2000.com/en/pci-exp...ble-1u-2u.html

Because I assume there must be some added latency from essentially doubling the wire length to the GFX card. Thoughts?
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 10:27 AM   #5
deimos3428
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 699
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yottabit View Post
Because I assume there must be some added latency from essentially doubling the wire length to the GFX card. Thoughts?
You're right, but it's probably not significant. You're adding ~1 ns round-trip if I did the math right.
deimos3428 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 02:56 PM   #6
PingSpike
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,350
Default

There isn't much information about these kinds of things out there, from when I was looking. However, I never found any examples of these kinds of things not working as expected so that is at least somewhat encouraging. My opinion is it will probably work fine. I've used some 1x to 16x converters and noted no problems outside of some performance loss from the reduced bandwidth. (expected)

I do see that the items are a lot cheaper then when I was looking.
__________________
Error reading poptart in Drive A: Delete kids y/n?
PingSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 03:21 PM   #7
Yuriman
Platinum Member
 
Yuriman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Florida
Posts: 2,449
Default

I was looking into AGP risers years ago, and my reading then suggested that as long as the riser is short, you won't have problems. How short? I don't know.

That cable is almost 5 inches long, and if I remember, I was trying to find one that was <2 inches, but perhaps latency isn't an issue anymore?

Hope that helps.
Yuriman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2011, 04:49 PM   #8
Throckmorton
Lifer
 
Throckmorton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 16,715
Default

Are there cases with the slots aligned to match those risers?
__________________
K&N air filter = 45x as much dirt in your engine (working link)
http://i52.tinypic.com/50lf0y.gif
"It has already been proven that the concept of a "living wage" is a liberal fantasy." - Patranus
Throckmorton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-23-2011, 07:09 PM   #9
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Throckmorton View Post
Are there cases with the slots aligned to match those risers?
Not many that I know of... Most are OEM cases like if you look at an IBM/Lenovo ThinkCenter or something like that, they'll usually have that style of riser in there. But most cases on Newegg and such rely on low profile cards.


An additional concern I have now is reading about the card specifications, Graphics cards may draw up to 75 W from the PCI express slot. Since the added cable will increase the electrical resistance, I worry. I guess there is no better way to find out than to try it though

I am planning to design a very slimline case using either a mATX or miniITX motherboard and discrete GPU. Should be fun
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 10:41 AM   #10
darckhart
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 435
Default

I was able to use one like this very successfully:
http://cgi.ebay.com/nVidia-PCIe-x16-...-/230572412700

However, that longish ribbon one a few posts up did not work reliably for me. Upon booting, sometimes it would detect the video card, sometimes it would not.
__________________
1. INTEL i7-920 C0 (200x19 @1.275V), Gigabyte EX58-UD4P, Corsair Ballistix Tactical Low Profile 2x 8GB DDR3-1600 (7-7-7-21-1T @1.35V), Catleap 1440p (120 Hz), Sapphire 290X
heat
ebay
darckhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2011, 11:42 AM   #11
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by darckhart View Post
I was able to use one like this very successfully:
http://cgi.ebay.com/nVidia-PCIe-x16-...-/230572412700

However, that longish ribbon one a few posts up did not work reliably for me. Upon booting, sometimes it would detect the video card, sometimes it would not.
Thank you darckhart! That will save me the trouble of buying both of them then
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2011, 05:29 PM   #12
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default

Update: bought a 1u riser and its working great with my 5770

Thanks!
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2011, 10:06 PM   #13
amtonio
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by yottabit View Post
Update: bought a 1u riser and its working great with my 5770

Thanks!
wow,which one did you buy?
amtonio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2011, 12:51 PM   #14
PingSpike
Lifer
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,350
Default

I just remembered back in the AGP days I saw a mod project where a guy made a PC that fit into a suitcase, basically a fat heavy laptop made with desktop parts. He ended up building his own cable extension for AGP from some kind of riser, wires and his own soldering skills so that he could change the orientation of the card to fit it in the suitcase.
__________________
Error reading poptart in Drive A: Delete kids y/n?
PingSpike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2011, 08:44 AM   #15
yottabit
Golden Member
 
yottabit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,088
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by amtonio View Post
wow,which one did you buy?
I first used one of these StarTech 1U ones:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicati...7BBTkwCjCECjCE

Later switched to a slightly taller (1.5U ?) Riser I found on ebay because the 1U didn't quite raise the graphics card up enough to give adequate clearance for a dual slot card.

Also added a wearout extender because using the riser without one puts the tab from the metal bracket on the graphics card into the IO plate
yottabit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:01 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.