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Old 08-31-2010, 09:44 AM   #51
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So I guess the conclusion in ATOT's infinite wisdom is it's ok to smoke at a gas station.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:48 AM   #52
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umm.. cell phones don't make sparks. Maybe if you smacked the metal casing off something else you might make it send out a spark.

Just about all these things are a non-issue. You're more likely to get killed pulling out of the gas station than filling with the car running, smoking by the pump, or talking on your phone. (maybe even all at the same time).

Although I don't do any of those because I don't like leaving my keys in the ignition while I get out of the car, I don't smoke, and I barely ever use my cell phone.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:54 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cogman View Post
When was the last time you saw a Cellphone screen spark, crack, or shatter?

I've seen a lot of cellphone screens take some pretty nasty hits, and never a spark out of one of them. Mostly they just create nice spidery ink patterns. Even dropping a cellphone is usually not enough to completely break it.

Not only that, but the screen (where the sparking would potentially happen) is surrounded by a plastic encasing. Any spark would be fast, but also unexposed to gas fumes. Even if the crack was big enough for gas fumes to enter, the spark would happen before the crack formed or any gas molecules would have a chance to enter the system.

Like I said earlier, short of removing your cellphone battery, spilling gas all over the ground, and shorting out the battery with a wire, the chances of a cellphone starting an explosion are someone in the range of 0% and 0.00000000000000000000001%
Have you ever worked in explosion proof environments? This is where the thinking comes from. EVERY device is enclosed in a heavy steel case so there is no chance of sparks contacting the air. Cell phones and any other electronic devices are strictly prohibited. Hell, even regular phones are encased in steel.

The fact of the matter is cell phones in the proximity of gas vapors can cause explosions.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:56 AM   #54
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A burning cigarette isn't hot enough to light gas on fire. I've thrown a lit cigarette in a container of gas before and it just went out. I always smoke by the pump. Now if you see someone lighting a cigarette while pumping. Thats a problem.
lol

temps of a lit cig:

Temperature without drawing:
Side of the lit portion: 752 deg F
Middle of the lit portion: 1112 deg F

Temperature during drawing:
Middle of the lit portion: 1292 deg F
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:01 AM   #55
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I saw this pathetic young loser get out, start the pump running and get back in his car to puff away. Did I mention pathetic?
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:07 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by spidey07 View Post
Have you ever worked in explosion proof environments? This is where the thinking comes from. EVERY device is enclosed in a heavy steel case so there is no chance of sparks contacting the air. Cell phones and any other electronic devices are strictly prohibited. Hell, even regular phones are encased in steel.

The fact of the matter is cell phones in the proximity of gas vapors can cause explosions.
Nope, I haven't worked in an explosion proof environment. I've also never worked in a clean room, yet I've successfully installed a CPU.

Explosion proof rooms take the approach of "better safe than sorry" because they have to. Comparing a gas station to an explosion proof environment is retarded.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:09 AM   #57
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Yeah right.
Yes, he is right about the throwing a cigarette in an open container/bucket of gas will extinguish a cigarette.

Now if you drip it in a 1/4 full nearly closed container, then yea, it is a likely chance the 3/4 vapor in the can will ignite.

He is also right about the static build up being a problem for people getting in and out of their cars without touching other metal objects. I'm not sure about more dangerous. I'm also not sure about cellphones being a problem. Directly i could only see them as being a small potential problem if people were powering them on and off near the gas filler neck. But only a very small problem.

Edit: even if you ignited an open container of gas, without the vapors, the gasoline would only burn. and as long as the container remains intact, it would just burn like a heavily fueled torch. no explosion.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:13 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Cogman View Post
When was the last time you saw a Cellphone screen spark, crack, or shatter?

I've seen a lot of cellphone screens take some pretty nasty hits, and never a spark out of one of them.
A lot of them do you just don't see it because it happens so fast. UL labs has a lot of footage on device testing where the drop test is performed and many items cell phones, media players, handheld games spark when the screen is cracked. If the display uses back lighting with an inverter the chances are even higher.

Quote:
Like I said earlier, short of removing your cellphone battery, spilling gas all over the ground, and shorting out the battery with a wire, the chances of a cellphone starting an explosion are someone in the range of 0% and 0.00000000000000000000001%
why chance being in that % ?
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:35 AM   #59
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When was the last time you saw rampant sparks in your computer? Never?
When I installed a DIMM without fully seating it about 10 years ago
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:35 AM   #60
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People are idiots...and I think Americans are getting dumber every year.
Never underestimate dumb. That is how Obama got into office.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:40 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by JoeBleed View Post
Yes, he is right about the throwing a cigarette in an open container/bucket of gas will extinguish a cigarette.

Now if you drip it in a 1/4 full nearly closed container, then yea, it is a likely chance the 3/4 vapor in the can will ignite.

He is also right about the static build up being a problem for people getting in and out of their cars without touching other metal objects. I'm not sure about more dangerous. I'm also not sure about cellphones being a problem. Directly i could only see them as being a small potential problem if people were powering them on and off near the gas filler neck. But only a very small problem.

Edit: even if you ignited an open container of gas, without the vapors, the gasoline would only burn. and as long as the container remains intact, it would just burn like a heavily fueled torch. no explosion.
Hey, who cares about explosions? See that gasoline fire over there? Not dangerous at all!
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:42 AM   #62
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Yeah, I saw a tard pull into a gas station a week or two with his hand hanging out the window and butt in it. I wrapped up what I was doing and got the heck outta there.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:51 AM   #63
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I saw this pathetic young loser get out, start the pump running and get back in his car to puff away. Did I mention pathetic?
If the gas fumes inside his car were strong enough to ignite, then he'd have bigger problems than your outrage. Like staying conscious.

That actually seems like the best place to smoke if you're going to.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:07 AM   #64
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If the gas fumes inside his car were strong enough to ignite, then he'd have bigger problems than your outrage. Like staying conscious.

That actually seems like the best place to smoke if you're going to.
I'm not outraged at all. It was just an example of a pathetic loser who could not wait to smoke.
EDIT: IF I were outraged there would be CAPs and FRothing and BANGS!!!11one !1
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:33 AM   #65
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How about hush up next time and let the adults talk next time you are trying to figure out what I meant?
Trying to figure out what you mean isn't all that hard. Usually you are insulting someone or just being a knob in general. You are a simple person who says simple things.

If you were any kind of man at all you would ask the people you see smoking at the pumps to butt out....but you probably don't have the balls to talk to people face to face.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:37 AM   #66
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Trying to figure out what you mean isn't all that hard. Usually you are insulting someone or just being a knob in general. You are a simple person who says simple things.

If you were any kind of man at all you would ask the people you see smoking at the pumps to butt out....but you probably don't have the balls to talk to people face to face.

Why, that would mean he'd actually have to speak to a living human being......well, someone other than his mother, that is.

And while he's an wannabe internet tough kid, in life he's more than likely a pasty, pencil-necked geek with empty scrotum.....and still awaiting puberty.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:41 AM   #67
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Hey, who cares about explosions? See that gasoline fire over there? Not dangerous at all!
OT was referencing explosions.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:44 AM   #68
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Smoking doesn't really cause that bad of a problem compared to what I'm seeing more and more which is much more dangerous. People using cell phones and getting in and out of their vehicle when pumping.

The throwing a cigarette in gas blow up only works in the movies.
Not that what they do is always right, but mythbusters did a very good job showing cell phones won't do anything. It's just not possible with how they're assembled and work. Static is a possibility, but if you think that's more dangerous than smoking you're a god damned fool.
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Old 08-31-2010, 11:51 AM   #69
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why chance being in that % ?
Because in that range, there is a chance that a solar flare heats up the mole on your forehead high enough to ignite the gas fumes around you, Or that a lightning strike on a clear day ignites the gas fumes around you. Or heck, friction caused by sand rubbing against the cement creates a temperature high enough to ignite gas.

There is ALWAYS a chance for something to go wrong. Lets focus on the things that are more likely to happen first. (A car swerving off the road and hitting a gas pump)
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:00 PM   #70
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Have you ever worked in explosion proof environments? This is where the thinking comes from. EVERY device is enclosed in a heavy steel case so there is no chance of sparks contacting the air. Cell phones and any other electronic devices are strictly prohibited. Hell, even regular phones are encased in steel.

The fact of the matter is cell phones in the proximity of gas vapors can cause explosions.
you mean a class 1 Div 1 area? Explosion Proof environment means the whole place is located in a Class 1 Div 1 area, but is well isolated.

Also, I go in class 1 div 1 areas all the time. A cell phone will not do anything. Why? Because there is not enough energy.
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:27 PM   #71
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Dude, gas is conbustable, majorly when in a container.

Diesel won't blow up though like they show old warships doing sometimes when they get hit in the tanks.
Actually, it's the gas vapors outside of the container I would be worried about. A gaseous form of any combustible material is far more dangerous and likely to detonate.

It was vaporized gasoline that destroyed nearly 5 miles of Guadalajara. I would most definitely feel more safe with the gas in a container. Afterall, we drive our vehicles with unpressurized containers of gasoline/diesel without self immolating.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:01 PM   #72
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A lot of them do you just don't see it because it happens so fast. UL labs has a lot of footage on device testing where the drop test is performed and many items cell phones, media players, handheld games spark when the screen is cracked. If the display uses back lighting with an inverter the chances are even higher.



why chance being in that % ?
Historically, you're far more likely to be shot by a sniper while pumping gas than to be injured by a fire (or even start a fire) by using your cell phone.

# of sniper attacks at gas stations? (Google "beltway sniper" yourself)
# of fires started by cell phones at gas stations: ZERO

Statements of "why chance being in that %" are generally made out of ignorance of relative risks. As far as the rest of you "it could happen" argument, the likelihood of your clothes sparking, just because you're wearing a wool jacket with polyester pants, is at least 10,000 times greater than the likelihood that you'll you'll drop your cell phone and have it spark. Perhaps the signs should say "you must be nude to pump gas."
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:03 PM   #73
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Historically, you're far more likely to be shot by a sniper while pumping gas than to be injured by a fire (or even start a fire) by using your cell phone.

# of sniper attacks at gas stations? (Google "beltway sniper" yourself)
# of fires started by cell phones at gas stations: ZERO

Statements of "why chance being in that %" are generally made out of ignorance of relative risks. As far as the rest of you "it could happen" argument, the likelihood of your clothes sparking, just because you're wearing a wool jacket with polyester pants, is at least 10,000 times greater than the likelihood that you'll you'll drop your cell phone and have it spark. Perhaps the signs should say "you must be nude to pump gas."
Perhaps you are on to something here
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:07 PM   #74
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Historically, you're far more likely to be shot by a sniper while pumping gas than to be injured by a fire (or even start a fire) by using your cell phone.

# of sniper attacks at gas stations? (Google "beltway sniper" yourself)
# of fires started by cell phones at gas stations: ZERO

Statements of "why chance being in that %" are generally made out of ignorance of relative risks. As far as the rest of you "it could happen" argument, the likelihood of your clothes sparking, just because you're wearing a wool jacket with polyester pants, is at least 10,000 times greater than the likelihood that you'll you'll drop your cell phone and have it spark. Perhaps the signs should say "you must be nude to pump gas."
This x1000
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:10 PM   #75
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So I guess the conclusion in ATOT's infinite wisdom is it's ok to smoke at a gas station.
No, I don't think anyone ever said that. Fires HAVE been started due to cigarettes. However, it's incredibly unlikely. Simple statistics should bear this out: how many people have you seen smoking at gas stations? How many fires have been caused by smoking? The number of people who smoke at gas stations is very high. The number of fires started by smoking is quite low. Not zero, but then again, not numbering more than a couple hundred (I think I've seen the statistic that over roughly 20 years, there were about 150 fires started at the pumps nationwide - most from static sparks, and the vast majority from females. Not sure where I saw that though.)

But, the number of cell phone started fires, despite *billions* of times that gas has been pumped while someone was using a cell phone? ZERO. I think in this latter instance, while some in this thread may make a hypothetical argument - if it has back lighting, and you're standing on the roof of the car and drop the cell phone and the sun is shining on the ground to heat it to 120F and the car is red and... - the evidence points to the hypothetical probability being damn close to zero.

Given that smoking generally doesn't impact on driving, that many people simply don't have enough hours in the day to do everything & must multitask to accomplish many tasks, it's probably a lot better that they make that cell phone call while pumping gas than to make that cell phone call while back in the car and driving. Smoking - why not just wait the 3 minutes while you pump gas. If you don't, the overwhelming odds are that nothing is going to happen. Your odds are, in fact, probably worse for a shark attack while wading in the ocean than they are of starting a fire, but in one case, you're balancing risk with enjoyment, while in the other case, delaying that enjoyment slightly eliminates the risk entirely.

Oh, and don't comb your hair while pumping gas. You'll almost certainly be creating sparks. Apparently though, comb manufacturers aren't worried about the likelihood of lawsuits in the incredibly unlikely event that you blow yourself up. However, cell phone manufacturers are smart enough to realize that even if the source of ignition is a spark created after reentering the vehicle and exiting the vehicle again, if you're holding a cell phone when the spark ignites the gasoline vapors, your ambulance chasing lawyer is going to attempt to sue the cell-phone manufacturer.
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