Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > General Hardware

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-19-2010, 12:35 AM   #1
lsquare
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 711
Default Is it safe to connect an multi-outlet surge protector to a UPS?

I bought a new UPS recently and I notice that there aren't enough outlets in the back to connect my gadgets and computers.

My plan is to connect the UPS directly to the wall. Then attach a multi-outlet UPS like the APC or Belkin 12-outlet surge protector to the back of the UPS.

Is this safe? Would you guys recommend it? Will the UPS work as intended and provide power to the gadgets that are connected to the surge protector, which is connected to the UPS?
lsquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 12:43 AM   #2
Fayd
Diamond Member
 
Fayd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Around
Posts: 7,653
Default

i dont know if it's safe, but i do it. i plug one into the non-battery powered ports to power random low power things like chargers.

i think the main danger is overloading a port. so dont be dumb, and you should be fine.
__________________
Hold me closer Tony Danza
Count the Headlights on the Highway
Lay me down in sheets of linen
You've had a busy day today.
Fayd is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:52 AM   #3
0roo0roo
No Lifer
 
0roo0roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 64,138
Default

cheap ups don't actually kick in until theres a power cut, so until then its not going through the battery so it doesn't matter, its going straight through
0roo0roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 01:52 AM   #4
Blain
Lifer
 
Blain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: SW Indiana
Posts: 23,154
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lsquare View Post
Would you guys recommend it?
Will the UPS work as intended and provide power to the gadgets that are connected to the surge protector, which is connected to the UPS?
* No
* No
At most I would connect a regular non-surge power strip to the UPS.
__________________
USA...
Too many delicate hothouse flowers
Blain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:12 AM   #5
lsquare
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blain View Post
* No
* No
At most I would connect a regular non-surge power strip to the UPS.
So the UPS won't provide power to the gadgets/components that are connected to the surge protector that's connected to the UPS?

Any reason why you're saying no?
lsquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:27 AM   #6
0roo0roo
No Lifer
 
0roo0roo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 64,138
Default

makes no difference, eitehr the ups is decent enough to provide its own surge protection while bypassing the battery or if its really sh*tty it just passes straight through, in either case its your choice whether you use a surge protector or not, it does no harm that i can think of. if its a nice ups that is constantly feeding through the battery then a surge protector is unecessary.
0roo0roo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:57 AM   #7
lsquare
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0roo0roo View Post
makes no difference, eitehr the ups is decent enough to provide its own surge protection while bypassing the battery or if its really sh*tty it just passes straight through, in either case its your choice whether you use a surge protector or not, it does no harm that i can think of. if its a nice ups that is constantly feeding through the battery then a surge protector is unecessary.
Thx for the response. I don't really need the surge protection from the multi-outlet surge protector. The only reason why I need to use it is because my UPS doesn't have enough outlets. I simply just need more outlets!

Btw, I failed to mention that I have the APC 900VA / 540Watts UPS.
lsquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 03:09 AM   #8
RebateMonger
Super Moderator
Elite Member
 
RebateMonger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tempe, Arizona, USA
Posts: 11,592
Default

My recollection is that APC used to have a REALLY strong warning about surge protectors in series with UPSes. I believe they said it was a fire risk. Now their warning is lesser:

"APC recommends against the use of any surge protector, power strip or extension cord being plugged into the output of any APC Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products. This document will explain why."

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en...i=&p_topview=1

"Plugging a surge protector into your UPS:

Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently disstribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly – causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDU’s use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation.

However, please note that the UPS is designed to handle a limited amount of equipment. Please be cautious about plugging too much equipment into the UPS to avoid an overload condition. To understand the load limit of your particular model UPS please consult the User's Manual, or visit APC's Product Page at www.apcc.com/products.

Plugging your UPS into a surge protector:

In order for your UPS to get the best power available, you should plug your UPS directly into the wall receptacle. Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online. This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online.

Maintaining EPP and Warranty:

Plugging any non-APC surge protector, power strip, or extension cord into the output of an APC brand UPS could void your Equipment Protection Policy (EPP). However, the standard 2 year product warranty is maintained. If, after taking into consideration this knowledge base document, you choose to use an APC brand surge protector in conjunction with your APC brand UPS, your warranty and Equipment Protection Policy will be maintained."
__________________
MCSE:Security:2003 - MCTS:SBS 2008 - Arizona's 1st Microsoft Small Business Specialist
--- In loving memory of my beautiful Australian Shepherd, Skye. July 2001-January 2010 ---
War on Terror 2000-2010 ~ Terrorist-caused Deaths < 10,000 ~ Bush's Wars > 1,000,000 ~ Winning?

Last edited by RebateMonger; 03-19-2010 at 03:15 AM.
RebateMonger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 03:32 AM   #9
lsquare
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 711
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebateMonger View Post
My recollection is that APC used to have a REALLY strong warning about surge protectors in series with UPSes. I believe they said it was a fire risk. Now their warning is lesser:

"APC recommends against the use of any surge protector, power strip or extension cord being plugged into the output of any APC Back-UPS and Smart-UPS products. This document will explain why."

http://nam-en.apc.com/cgi-bin/nam_en...i=&p_topview=1

"Plugging a surge protector into your UPS:

Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently disstribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly – causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDU’s use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation.

However, please note that the UPS is designed to handle a limited amount of equipment. Please be cautious about plugging too much equipment into the UPS to avoid an overload condition. To understand the load limit of your particular model UPS please consult the User's Manual, or visit APC's Product Page at www.apcc.com/products.

Plugging your UPS into a surge protector:

In order for your UPS to get the best power available, you should plug your UPS directly into the wall receptacle. Plugging your UPS into a surge protector may cause the UPS to go to battery often when it normally should remain online. This is because other, more powerful equipment may draw necessary voltage away from the UPS which it requires to remain online.

Maintaining EPP and Warranty:

Plugging any non-APC surge protector, power strip, or extension cord into the output of an APC brand UPS could void your Equipment Protection Policy (EPP). However, the standard 2 year product warranty is maintained. If, after taking into consideration this knowledge base document, you choose to use an APC brand surge protector in conjunction with your APC brand UPS, your warranty and Equipment Protection Policy will be maintained."
Thx for the information. What's are Power Distribution Units? Can I buy them at an electronics store or the Home Depot?
lsquare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 09:36 AM   #10
Paperdoc
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,380
Default

I'm sure the "Power distribution Units" are just the same thing as Blain said, non-surge-protected multi-outlet power strips. "Surge Protection" has become such a common attractive selling feature that it tends to be included in a LOT of power strips. In fact, the cheapest way to do that, which is marginally effective, is TOO common. I tends to grab the attention of people who don't understand it so they will pay more for a feature they don't need. So you actually have to look around in the stores for a power strip that does NOT promise Surge Protection. might even cost less.
Paperdoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 10:32 AM   #11
Modelworks
Lifer
 
Modelworks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 16,237
Default

Basically APC is covering their ass if you go out and buy a cheap or poor quality power strip and plug it in.
A decently designed power strip , even with surge, will work fine on any UPS.
Modelworks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 02:18 PM   #12
westom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paperdoc View Post
I'm sure the "Power distribution Units" are just the same thing as Blain said, non-surge-protected multi-outlet power strips. "Surge Protection" has become such a common attractive selling feature that it tends to be included in a LOT of power strips.
What is a power strip protector? Typically a $3 power strip with some ten cent protector parts. It sells in the grocery store for $7. And sells with fancier paint for $25 or $150 in the big box TV stores.

All power strips must provide 15 amps. All must provide sufficient power. The power plug (two rectangular prongs with a round safety ground prong) means the plug and connected wires must be rated for 15 amps. Any power strip that does not have a 15 amp circuit breaker should be scrapped immediately.

What does APC not mention? Power output by a typical computer grade UPS is 'dirty'. Potentially harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Being honest would hurt the 'cleans electricity' myths.

A UPS connects the appliance directly to AC mains when not in battery backup mode. That is when power is 'cleanest'. An output from one 120 volt UPS in battery backup mode. Two 200 volt square waves with a spike of up to 270 volts between those square waves. That is 'clean' power only when myths get promoted. That output is why power strip protectors are best not on a UPS output. That output can be harmful to small motors and power strip protectors.

Best power strip contains no protectors. And should always have a 15 amp circuit breaker (or fuse). That is also called a plug mole or power distribution unit.

Last edited by westom; 03-20-2010 at 01:34 AM.
westom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2010, 06:09 PM   #13
Snooper
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Posts: 464
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RebateMonger View Post
Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently disstribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly – causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDU’s use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation.
I call BULL! "efficiently distribute the power"???? Give me a break. The outlets are in parallel to the hot and ground leads. The only way they couldn't "efficiently distribute the power" was if the bus that connects each outlet was SO undersized that one device that pulled a lot of current would actually cause a voltage drop across the bus. Of course, if you had one device that pulled that much power, you probably have other issues with insufficient power at the outlet anyway.

I think the correct term for this is FUD. They also call this "marketing" as well. Either way, it is bull.

Just for the record, your entire house is connected in parallel. Every single circuit in that house is tied to either L1 and neutral, L2 and neutral, or between L1 and L2 (220V). And they are ALL in parallel. Heck, not only that but there is a good chance that four or five house in your neighborhood are also connected in parallel to the same transformer.
__________________
--Snooper

(Formerly) Sort System Engineer
- Not speaking for Intel (At all!)

Last edited by Snooper; 03-19-2010 at 06:13 PM.
Snooper is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.