ATI 4850 TEMPERATURE discussion

[shangshang]

with some people jumping on this card and the high temps and often ranging wildly from user to user, I thought a thread about the temp of this card and the remedies people use to try to lower it would be interesting.

Here are my conditions and resulting temp:

case type: open case with deskfan blowing
test app: realtime HDR (http://www.daionet.gr.jp/~masa/rthdribl/index.html), just a 20mb app, no installation required

gpu clock: 625 Mhz (default)
memory clock: 993 Mhz (default)
ambient room temp: 30.5C (87F)
idle temp: 72C
under load temp: 83C

I did change the thermal paste before even installing the card, so I don't know the temp with the old paste. But I did noticed the old thermal paste was a bit hard, so I just slap on a fresh patch.

What's your readouts?

[WiKiD]

I haven't received my 4850 yet but i ordered a Zalman VF1000 along with it in case. There is a thread over on hardforums (http://www.hardforum.com/showt...58&highlight=accelero) that shows an Accelero dropping it from 73 to 32 idle and and 88 to 39 load. Don't know the other circumstances of the case it is in but that is pretty impressive.

I think fan control will make quite a difference though. Some people are modding the fan to go 100% and it is dropping the GPU to 61C load.

[Hauk]

I have a windy case and best I can do is 680ish with a single card, 655ish in CF. Memory around 1050-1100 respectively.

No fan speed adjustment with Rivatuner yet, also investigated ATI Flash, was considering modifying the bios with an increased fan speed. Saved bios to disk but ATI Flash fan adjusment option was greyed out. The FX reviewer pulled the fan speed wire out to enable his to run at 100%. I'm not going there.

I have a 120mm fan sucking air from the exaust vents which helped about 4c. For now it's rock solid at 650 core 1060 mem in Crossfire. For $300 bucks it's a fast solution.

I'll run them as is until September and will upgrade to 4870 X2. I'm thinking they'll sell for $150ish in three months. For those planning on long term, fan speed adjustments will come with third party software or bios hacks.

The tricky part of going aftermarket will come with cooling the PWMs. At present the stock heatsink makes contact with all components highlighted. The light grey dudes will not get too warm but the little black ones will. You can attach pwm heatsinks to the black ones; but adequate airflow across the board should be enough if left bare..

[shangshang]

Wow the Accelero is really that good huh? Thing for me is, I got this card for $149 on the Best Buy deal, and the whole point of "cheap" is so that I don't spend additional money on cooler. If I'm going to drop $30 bux on a cooler, I might as well get the GTX+ with a stock double barrel cooler AND get a bit better performance too and value added thing like Physx.

Curious to know why ATI engineers decided to run it at low fan speed? The engineers MUST have their reason, right? I pray they did enough testing so we don't become their field test subjects down the road. Somehow, I feel very uneasy about this.

[Mem]

I guess if you don't want to mod your 4580 then something like this should help those temps.

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: shangshang

Curious to know why ATI engineers decided to run it at low fan speed? The engineers MUST have their reason, right? I pray they did enough testing so we don't become their field test subjects down the road. Somehow, I feel very uneasy about this.

A few reasons, cost being the primary one. Consider too, the GPU is the same as found on the 4870. Funny how there are no shader or fan speed adjustments, and CCC is limited to 700 core. You want the card to perform, but not to compete with the 4870. If you look at all the variables, it's obvious they want the card to perform but not to encroach.

Even with aftermarket cooling, you're gonna have to dick with third party software to get a nice oc. Heat plays a major role in where this card is positioned. They're not stupid, it's not an oversight. It's by design...

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: Mem
I guess if you don't want to mod your 4580 then something like this should help those temps.

I'll think about this one thogh. Thing is this. The 4850 fan cover completely sit on top of the heatsink. So the only air that is going to flow accross the heat sink is the air from their small fan! Blowing air onto the cover does nothing to cool the heatsink itself. Now if the heatsink was an exposed heatsink, then your suggestion would be good.

Further more, I already have a deskfan blowing into the card already. So your suggest wouldn't necessary help me that much more.

so the options seem to be:

1) the Accelero cooler, best solution ($30 bux at least)
2) make the builtin fan go faster (not possible at the moment)
3) get an extra slot cooler blowing into the card itself. ($20-$25)

I think if you're thinking of using option 3, you should just pay a bit more and go with #1. However, I dont wanna pay a dime more for cooler though, I rather pay for performance.

And I don't wanna be cutting and diseccting and voltmodding anything on the card either, because I will definitely need to sell it on Ebay prolly in 6 months (if I decide to keep it). So that's why I'm against dumping more money into it, it's money that I'll never get back.

[ChronoReverse]

The set it to low speed because the 4xxx series is meant to be quiet. Thus they designed for the heat.

Myself I got 79 Celsius idle and 91 Celsius load at stock.

With a GFxchilla it's 42 Celsius idle and 62 Celsius load.

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: SteelSix

A few reasons, cost being the primary one. Consider too, the GPU is the same as found on the 4870. Funny how there are no shader or fan speed adjustments, and CCC is limited to 700 core. You want the card to perform, but not to compete with the 4870. If you look at all the variables, it's obvious they want the card to perform but not to encroach.

Even with aftermarket cooling, you're gonna have to dick with third party software to get a nice oc. Heat plays a major role in where this card is positioned. They're not stupid, it's not an oversight. It's by design...

You made a very valid point. So hell if we can't oc it to over 700 Mhz, then there might not be much of a point in cooling it further. Maybe wait until the 700 Mhz can be broken, and by how much, THEN it may be worth it to get the Accelero?!

[shangshang]

Originally posted by: ChronoReverse
The set it to low speed because the 4xxx series is meant to be quiet. Thus they designed for the heat.

Myself I got 79 Celsius idle and 91 Celsius load at stock.

With a GFxchilla it's 42 Celsius idle and 62 Celsius load.

What's your room temp? Case air flow good? average?

[error8]

Is there a volt mod for this cards out yet?

[WiKiD]

I think GDDR5 is going to give the 4870 an edge overclocking or not. However with some RivaTuner support i am crossing my fingers the 4850 will start OC'ing much better.

[bryanW1995]

Originally posted by: error8
Is there a volt mod for this cards out yet?

I don't have the link in front of me but there is a voltmod thread at xs.

[Gonad the Barbarian]

Isn't this exactly the same scenario that happened with the first run of 3870's? Cooling fans were anemic and it took 3rd party software and/or a modded Bios to fix it. Maybe these high temps are OK structurally for these cards, but it ATI should have learned from last time that people don't like things hitting 90C in their cases.

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: shangshang
Wow the Accelero is really that good huh? Thing for me is, I got this card for $149 on the Best Buy deal, and the whole point of "cheap" is so that I don't spend additional money on cooler. If I'm going to drop $30 bux on a cooler, I might as well get the GTX+ with a stock double barrel cooler AND get a bit better performance too and value added thing like Physx.

Curious to know why ATI engineers decided to run it at low fan speed? The engineers MUST have their reason, right? I pray they did enough testing so we don't become their field test subjects down the road. Somehow, I feel very uneasy about this.

Wait for the software fix.

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: shangshang

I'll think about this one thogh. Thing is this. The 4850 fan cover completely sit on top of the heatsink. So the only air that is going to flow accross the heat sink is the air from their small fan! Blowing air onto the cover does nothing to cool the heatsink itself. Now if the heatsink was an exposed heatsink, then your suggestion would be good.

Further more, I already have a deskfan blowing into the card already. So your suggest wouldn't necessary help me that much more.

so the options seem to be:

1) the Accelero cooler, best solution ($30 bux at least)
2) make the builtin fan go faster (not possible at the moment)
3) get an extra slot cooler blowing into the card itself. ($20-$25)

I think if you're thinking of using option 3, you should just pay a bit more and go with #1. However, I dont wanna pay a dime more for cooler though, I rather pay for performance.

And I don't wanna be cutting and diseccting and voltmodding anything on the card either, because I will definitely need to sell it on Ebay prolly in 6 months (if I decide to keep it). So that's why I'm against dumping more money into it, it's money that I'll never get back.

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php...11defb7febe133a3c99530

[classy]

Mine is idling at 78c according to gpu-z. I have been playing Q3 rails. Nice card and the AA is sweet. But I am getting the occasional drag down for some reason. I had a 7600gt . But its hot no doubt. The 2nd is really nice as well. For $160 at BB out the door, it may be the card of the decade.

[Mucker]

Originally posted by: sxr7171

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php...11defb7febe133a3c99530

S1 will be better: http://www.svc.com/fan-acces1.html

[ChronoReverse]

Room temp is probably about 24ish. Air flow in my case is good.

[IQJUMPuw]

I have a question about the ATi Catalyst Control Center.

When it says "Enable ATI Overdrive," does that mean my 4850 is running at that speed even though my "Current Clock Settings" shows otherwise?

I enabled ATI overdrive and the GPU Clock says 625MHz and Memory Clock says 993MHz but Current Clock Settings says 500MHz/750MHz for some reason... I tested the custom clocks and they were fine but the Current Clock Settings never change. That does mean my 4850 is running at 625MHz/993MHz or at 500MHz/750MHz? I'm so confused.

Oh my GPU temperature is at 81C.

[Hauk]

Originally posted by: IQJUMPuw
I have a question about the ATi Catalyst Control Center.

When it says "Enable ATI Overdrive," does that mean my 4850 is running at that speed even though my "Current Clock Settings" shows otherwise?

I enabled ATI overdrive and the GPU Clock says 625MHz and Memory Clock says 993MHz but Current Clock Settings says 500MHz/750MHz for some reason... I tested the custom clocks and they were fine but the Current Clock Settings never change. That does mean my 4850 is running at 625MHz/993MHz or at 500MHz/750MHz? I'm so confused.

Oh my GPU temperature is at 81C.

Powerplay is a feature that downclocks when there is no gpu demand. The default is 500 core 750 memory. Whatever you set the OC to is what it will clock to when the driver detects gpu load.

If selecting an OC, be sure to test it then accept it. That will be the clock setting during gaming. GPU-Z will report the oc on the main screen and the idle clock on the second tab.

[Mucker]

Well, I managed to fit an Accelero S1 (Revision 1) onto one of my 4850's. The bolt holes are a perfect match. Result is a 40C drop in idle temp; beauty of it is......it's FANLESS. 78C before and 38C after in 80F ambient air. I expect to see only a 14 degree delta between idle and load, as I did with my 3870, so max temp load should be around 53-55C, again, without a fan! :Q I need a good 3rd party tool such as RivaTuner to get a good trendable graph of load temp (not available for 4850 yet). The S1 is a great piece of cooling gear, arguably one of the most efficient air cooling devices ever made for the PC.

The mod I am going to show is for my personal satisfaction. I don't encourage anyone to try this unless they are completely comfortable with doing so. I accept no responsibilty for any mishaps that may occur. I am providing this as information only.

Here is a shot of the S1 Revision 1 base (perfectly aligns with holes on card).

S1 Base

I did have to hack up the stock heat so the PWM area would be covered. A nice little hack saw job did the trick. Cuts through painted aluminum nicely. There are 2 bolts holding it down so plenty of pressure.

PWM Mod

The ram sink near the bottom of the card interferes with a heatpipe, therefore, I had to mod it (cut a couple of the fins off and rotated 90 degrees) so that it would clear the S1:

Ram Sink mod

The next pic shows the modified ram sink installed. I had some good double-sided thermal tape and did away with those gooey original pads. Much cleaner and should transfer heat much better:

Mod ram sink installed

All sinks in place now:

Sinks installed

S1 mounted with no ram sink interference:

Good clearance

The S1 is now mounted with a thin layer of MX2 on the gpu. The PWM area sink has plenty of clearance.

PWM sink clearance

Finished mount with Crossfire bridge poking through. I did need to spread the fins to get the bridge through. (photo is old one with old gooey pads on sink, but main focus here is to show dimensions of sink.) Thickness is nearly the same as any double slotted HSF, and height of 1+7/8 inches from the edge of the card. About 3/4" to 1" from the side door of my Antec 900. Length shorter than card.

Mounted S1

Finally installed on Abit IP-35 Pro. An additional S1 Rev. 2 will arrive today to finish the job, along with a new P5Q-E!

Installed

Edit: I installed my Rev. 2 and happy to report a similar installation as Rev. 1.

Here's an old thread of mine that shows just how good the S1 is: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...ey=y&keyword1=accelero

m

[ronnn]

Thanks muchly Mucker, I would have never thought of mod 1.

[Ronstang]

If the card is VisionTek and comes with a lifetime guarantee and is performing flawlessly why should I give a hoot about the temp?

[Mucker]

think about it, a fanless S1 is dead quiet for one and quiet is a great thing for HTPC. And crossfire with 2 noiseless S1's in the living room is a huge plus.

I'll take running a loaded gpu at 55C over 90C any day of the week.

But otherwise you are correct, if it works for you, no need to bother.