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Old 12-07-2005, 11:55 PM   #1
fbrdphreak
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Hey all,
You may have seen AT's "7800GT Mini-Roundup" here; if not take a looksie.

Or don't. Why was this posted? They looked at three 7800GT's, with three diff clock speeds. A fair part of the individual card discussion was on the box.

The only semi-useful part was the Overclocking/Power Load section, but that seemed like an after thought. Only Splinter Cell OC benchmark? What about everything else? What about a comparison to a 7800GTX? I would like to see how well an OC'd GT compares to a GTX personally, across multiple games & resolutions.

I would really have preferred Josh to take his time and do a complete review. There weren't enough tests and not enough cards. I'm not much interested in different brands, as all will perform the same at the same clocks. Seeing different OC's is valuable of course, so that would be nice I guess.

On the same subject, where are COD2 benchmarks in AT video reviews? What are some other new games they're missing?

I'm not trying to jump down the dude's throat, but this review was a bit of a waste of time IMO.

Am I way off base here?

EDIT Pardon the sporadic thoughts in here, its late!
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Old 12-08-2005, 01:26 AM   #2
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Is this the sort of thing you had in mind?
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:25 AM   #3
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

yeah and that one came out in October. It does seem odd to throw out a short review about 3 cards and basically say: "this one is already overclocked, so you'll get 5 more fps. this other one has fancy lights, but is overpriced." It wasn't really that insightful I thought.
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:18 AM   #4
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

ditto

Very surprised that they would put out something of this magnitude...lets face it, people who are chasing something along these lines are gonna want comparisons showing various cards and how they stack up. I am wondering if they are REALLY that narrowed minded or just looking for something to "fill in" the space. I have a bfg 6800 ultra (agp) and needed to know how it stacked up to the 7800 series cards for my next build. With the info they provided in this article I couldn't of made a decision.

Based on the information provided in the above mentioned link, I went with the evga 7800 gt co. Felt like it was the sweet spot.

shows me what my card can do and what the 7800 series cards can do in specific games

with that kinda information, it made me go from bfg to evga
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:54 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by: drifter106
ditto

Very surprised that they would put out something of this magnitude...lets face it, people who are chasing something along these lines are gonna want comparisons showing various cards and how they stack up. I am wondering if they are REALLY that narrowed minded or just looking for something to "fill in" the space. I have a bfg 6800 ultra (agp) and needed to know how it stacked up to the 7800 series cards for my next build. With the info they provided in this article I couldn't of made a decision.

Based on the information provided in the above mentioned link, I went with the evga 7800 gt co. Felt like it was the sweet spot.

shows me what my card can do and what the 7800 series cards can do in specific games

with that kinda information, it made me go from bfg to evga
Now that's a useful review right there. They used a wider array of games with a wider array of settings. Now the FiringSquad review also could use more cards in it, but at least they properly tested them. Oh, and still no COD2

I think one thing I've noticed lately is this: for the longest time, I would only need to read AT's reviews. They covered all the details I want in one concise article. These days, I'm having to go to mulitple places. Being the kind of site that it is, I personally think AT should be striving to provide the reviews that leave people not needing more information.

I do realize those kinds of reviews take a lot more time to do and that a good portion of their staff doesn't work AT alone, so they have other responsibilities, but I think it is AT's responsibility to ensure the quality of their work by allowing those with the time necessary to write the more comprehensive reviews & roundups.

Had Josh done an individual card review with the more comprehensive selection of tests & comparisons, that would have been better than this. Or had Derek (one of the "full-time" writers for AT) taken the time to do a 7800GT roundup and directly compare to 7800GTX and other competing & older cards {with overclocking}, that would have been awesome.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:05 AM   #6
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

I was surpised at how low the overclocking results were for the cards. Posters on this Forum are frequently able to break the 500 mark overclocking 7800GT cores.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:29 AM   #7
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Quote:
Originally posted by: Woofmeister
I was surpised at how low the overclocking results were for the cards. Posters on this Forum are frequently able to break the 500 mark overclocking 7800GT cores.
My 7800GT OCs like crap... it's a great card and it's perfectly reliable, it just doesn't OC worth balls. I really need to invest in an NV silencer.
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Old 12-08-2005, 09:34 AM   #8
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Quote:
Originally posted by: CraigRT
Quote:
Originally posted by: Woofmeister
I was surpised at how low the overclocking results were for the cards. Posters on this Forum are frequently able to break the 500 mark overclocking 7800GT cores.
My 7800GT OCs like crap... it's a great card and it's perfectly reliable, it just doesn't OC worth balls. I really need to invest in an NV silencer.
I got an eVGA from someone on AT FS/FT and he got 520/1.2 with a VF700. Idle temps were good but load temps were 80C+. I doubt temp is limiting you, the stock cooler seems decently efficient. I'm changing the VF700 for an NV5 Rev 3, because the VF700 is louder than I prefer and the NV5 exhausts all the hot air; the VF700 just swirls it in my case.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:15 AM   #9
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Quote:
Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

What about a comparison to a 7800GTX? I would like to see how well an OC'd GT compares to a GTX personally, across multiple games & resolutions.
Just read this Review then

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Old 12-08-2005, 10:17 AM   #10
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Quote:
Originally posted by: RussianSensation
Quote:
Originally posted by: fbrdphreak

What about a comparison to a 7800GTX? I would like to see how well an OC'd GT compares to a GTX personally, across multiple games & resolutions.
Just read this Review then
I did. My point is that I used to be able to only have to read AT reviews to find what I need; not so anymore.
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Old 12-08-2005, 10:58 AM   #11
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

This type of review was a good idea, but they should have tested more cards, both other 7800 GTs (the cool looking XFX card in particular) as well as some different types of cards to give a basis for comparison for people looking to upgrade. Some SLI benchmarks would also have been nice. Also, I didn't see any mention at all of the EVGA card's larger GTX cooler.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:15 AM   #12
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

ive always liked hard ocp video card reviews, because they use cpu's that people can actually afford when they do their benchmarks.

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Old 12-08-2005, 11:18 AM   #13
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Default AT's 7800GT Mini-Roundup

Did anandtech even finish their GTX roundup? It seems like they only reviewed a few cards.
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Old 12-08-2005, 11:32 AM   #14
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"A fair part of the individual card discussion was on the box."

Classic
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Old 12-08-2005, 12:21 PM   #15
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My post from the article's comments:

"I appreciate this write up - the holidays are here, and many of us are in the market for a video card, so this comparison is helpfull. Your comparison of the cards, and your power and overclocking results were nice to see. Nice choice of games for a quick review as well. That said:

1) Why did you overclock the cards, and then not test the overclocked cards in the three games you choose? This is especially important considering the plateau issue with OC'ing the cards - maybe the eVGA would have jumped to the next level of performance, making it the clear choice.

2) Why oh why does Anandtech insist on not including any other cards in so many of its video articles. PLEASE PLEASE just add a 7800GTX and a X850XT to the chart. If you really went all out and showed us the 3 7800GTs, the same cards OC'd, the 7800GTX, the X850XT, a 6800GS, and either a X800GTO or an X800XL then this comparison might actually help someone decide whether or not to upgrade and what card they should buy to get their desired level of performance.

Seriousely AT, just comparing the overclocked 7800GT to a GTX and a 6800GS would be so helpfull for someone buying a card this month, you all should have been able to realize that."
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Old 12-08-2005, 04:22 PM   #16
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I emailed Kristopher Kubicki about 3 weeks ago asking him to add COD2 to video card benchmarks and he said that they would definitely look into it. Hopefully they'll be adding that game soon.
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Old 12-08-2005, 06:51 PM   #17
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Some one raised a good point in the comment section of the article. Would the higher OC eVGA card experience less reliabilty and more artifacts and lock up?
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:09 PM   #18
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if you look around elsewhere you can see that even the old ATI X850XT can hold up pretty well against this card.

I was just looking because i was toying with the idea to sell my X850XT and get a evga 7800GT - just to get a big piece of reality (and benchmark numbers).....the 7800GT is *definitly* NOT the card to get if you already own a card like the X850XT...except you (for some reason) need the SM3.0.

The card *is* better in OpenGL (Doom3 etc.) but thats nothing new - in D3D titles this card is really NOT worth now letting everything else drop/sell on ebay etc. and get a 7800GT.

I think for someone upgrading from a low-end card this might be VERY interesting (i found a evga 7800GT for $299)....very nice price and you get good performance.....i for my part will sit back (again) and wait for R580/G71.
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Old 12-08-2005, 07:59 PM   #19
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Where is the Leadtek Card ?!??I find this card does really well.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:23 AM   #20
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Right now there are at least 4 7800GT models from eVGA alone! N515, 516, 517, 518. There are probably even lower-clocked models, I can't be bothered to check now.

Newegg prices run all over the place, from $289 after MIR to almost $400, and figuring out the differences is a nightmare.

I think a helpful article would be one detailing the actual differences between various brands/models. For example, "CO" eVGA models seem to be using a copper cooler, for instance, while there are cheaper versions with aluminium coolers. They aren't clearly marked on the newegg site at least. So from a roundup I'd expect a comparison table saying what cooler each card is using... what temps and noise levels they run at on their factory clocks, and maybe on the reference clocks too, for a good cooler comparison.

Also, I got absolutely no clue what RAM different makes are using. Are there some that are rated higher? This would've been an useful info. Because this is what is actually important. I don't care if the mem comes 30MHz higher from the factory if it's rating is still the same. But if they put better chips for those 30MHz, that could mean you can oc even further.

Included apps/games and other extras can make the buying decision even more confusing, if you have to research 10s of sites to get these details. If AT did this, it'd be really helpful for those buying a card now, and would be appreciated.

All the useful info from above, structured in a single comparison table, would make a much better "roundup" than any benches, i think.

EDIT: From reading some comments about the eVGA models, I learned that some had quite a lot of problems at the factory oc speeds... and now there's a new bios that supposedly lowers some "clock delta" to fix these problems.
I don't really understand this whole GT clock mess, with one speed shown and wholy different internal clocks and deltas and stuff... so maybe a bit more details about this would be good too. And a note about differences in this among the brands too. Like, eVGA lowering this "clock delta", if its really true, seems like cheating to me. Kinda they make the card run lower speed, but show higher... or am I wrong? I could really use a good explanation of this.
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Old 12-09-2005, 01:44 AM   #21
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The 515 is the aluminum card (445/1050), the 516 (460/1100) and 517 (470/1100) have the larger copper coolers and I think the 518 (445/1050) is the one bundled with the SLI motherboard. The 516 is selling for $300 without any rebates at some places right now and is probably the best overall buy IMO. I am waiting on my pair of these to arrive.

I have also heard of that issue with some part of the core going up too high in games. Not sure what to make of it at this point, although at least EVGA's warranty is very good if there are any problems.

There is also some confusion on the XFX cards. I think there are actually five different models in circulation right now, some of which have the same part number.
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Old 12-09-2005, 02:03 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by: Visual
EDIT: From reading some comments about the eVGA models, I learned that some had quite a lot of problems at the factory oc speeds... and now there's a new bios that supposedly lowers some "clock delta" to fix these problems.
I don't really understand this whole GT clock mess, with one speed shown and wholy different internal clocks and deltas and stuff... so maybe a bit more details about this would be good too. And a note about differences in this among the brands too. Like, eVGA lowering this "clock delta", if its really true, seems like cheating to me. Kinda they make the card run lower speed, but show higher... or am I wrong? I could really use a good explanation of this.
The core clock that's listed is the clock for the pixel shaders. On the 7800 series cards, the vertex shaders are clocked 40 Mhz above whatever the pixel clock is set to (i.e. 430 MHz on the core = 470 MHz on the vertex shaders). On the manufacturer overclocked cards this has caused some issues since running the core at 470 MHz means that the vertex shaders are at 510 MHz. As a result, eVGA released their new bios that removes the delta on the vertex shaders, so that they run at the same speed as the pixel shaders. To my knowledge though, all cards are still being made with the delta; and the new BIOS must be downloaded by the end user if they are having problems.
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Old 12-17-2005, 12:23 PM   #23
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This is exactly what I'd like to find out, Visual, and mrkun's explanation helps. I was thinking about flashing to the latest BIOS, but I don't know if it will be a benefit or not. Right now, I can't OC my 515 by much at all. Don't know if the new BIOS will help or not. And I don't know if getting rid of that 40MHz delta is a good thing or if I want to keep it. I guess this new BIOS also locks together the 2D and 3D frequencies, where in my current BIOS the 2D runs much slower.
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Old 12-17-2005, 07:23 PM   #24
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Here's a breakdown of the eVGA cards:

516 (CO SE): 460/1100 w/ copper cooler
517 (CO): 470 Mhz on the core, otherwise identical to the 516
515 & 518 (stock): 445/1070 as far as I can tell, the two models are identical
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