NARAL: States More Pro-Life, 19 Would Ban Abortion if Roe Overturned

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Absolutely not. The last thing we need is more people spamming P&N with anti-abortion, anti-condom, and anti-sex trolls.

Didn't you hear Bow? Jesus has commanded Riprorin to prosyletize to all of us. Even though we've made it abundently clear that we don't like it, don't appreciate it, and wish he would knock it off.

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Didn't you hear Bow? Jesus has commanded Riprorin to prosyletize to all of us. Even though we've made it abundently clear that we don't like it, don't appreciate it, and wish he would knock it off.

I guess Jesus gave him the authority to break the new posting rule re:cut-n-paste, too.

[alchemize]

Originally posted by: conjur

I guess Jesus gave him the authority to break the new posting rule re:cut-n-paste, too.

Before you post something dumb a 3rd time, check Rips original post date? Train bumped it for some reason.

[Riprorin]

Originally posted by: bthorny

I really don't see why anyone should tell a woman what to do with her body ....
anyway...
I don't understand how someone can argue that the supposed killing of a baby is wrong...on one hand but, on the other argue for the killing of innocent civilians is justified...if you really believe in protection of the innocent then logically that would be of all innocent right?


The view by me anyway is that it is a part of someones body if a person wants to chop their arm off I don't necessarily think that is a good thing or necessarily a bad one logically but, I maintain their right to do so if they wish to willing do that.

Except that a fetus is a distinct individual with unique genetic matter different than the mother. To compare a mother's arm to an unborn baby is ridiculous.

[conjur]

Originally posted by: alchemize

Before you post something dumb a 3rd time, check Rips original post date? Train bumped it for some reason.

mea culpa

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Before you post something dumb a 3rd time, check Rips original post date? Train bumped it for some reason.

I've noticed Train has been doing that a lot lately. I guess he can't get enough of the conservative trifecta: Abortion, killing brown people/war porn, and beating down liberal college professors.

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: conjur
I guess Jesus gave him the authority to break the new posting rule re:cut-n-paste, too.

About 20 people have trolled in this thread and none of them have been vacationed yet. Trying to pick and choose rules? I guess you don't have much better to do since you seem adament about not contributing to any threads other than your own.

I find it ironic that the people who repeatedly claim how obvious it is that abortion should be legal are the same who shy away from any actual discussion on the topic. I'd imagine that it would be banned in a lot more than 38 states were the USSC to overturn the farce that is Roe v Wade.

[loki8481]

Topic Title: NARAL: States More Anti-Women's Rights
Topic Summary: States are passing laws to encourage back-alley abortions at an increasing rate

fixed

but god forbid we teach safe sex. you know, so women might be able to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

[Tab]

Anyone want to tell me what country has legal aboritions and has the lowest aborition rate?

Cylco and Rip. Can you explain to me what right you have to tell women what they can do with their own bodies? How many kids have you adopted.

[Train]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

just been using the search page, was trying to find something totally unrelated and found this thread. Made a post but screwed it up and lost my text, didnt feel like retyping it, maybe later.

I've noticed Train has been doing that a lot lately. I guess he can't get enough of the conservative trifecta: Abortion, killing brown people/war porn, and beating down liberal college professors.

besides this one, I only "bumped" a thread I was called out on in a recent thread (someone said I never responded to something, but i just hadnt been around in a while), and the other I linked to as a reference in another, also recent, thread, which someone else then bumped. Sorry, I know you get all pissy when a conservative thread gets bumped, we know you guys like to keep the top of the forum full of the "Bush, Marines, and Republicans are teh eval" threads.

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Train
edit: err, screwed up the quote, nevermind

this deserved a bump?

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: Riprorin

Except that a fetus is a distinct individual with unique genetic matter different than the mother. To compare a mother's arm to an unborn baby is ridiculous.

My dog is distinct with unique genetic material differnent from the mother. Are you pro-dog as well?

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Anyone want to tell me what country has legal aboritions and has the lowest aborition rate?

Cylco and Rip. Can you explain to me what right you have to tell women what they can do with their own bodies? How many kids have you adopted.

I've already demonstrated in at least one very recent thread (this week) why a fetus is not part of a woman's body. This thread I believe.

You started this dialogue before, then abandoned it. If you're really interested, feel free to continue, but don't sit to the side and take potshots. That's just weak.

[Tab]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

I've already demonstrated in at least one very recent thread (this week) why a fetus is not part of a woman's body. This thread I believe.

You started this dialogue before, then abandoned it. If you're really interested, feel free to continue, but don't sit to the side and take potshots. That's just weak.

I find it weak that you always refer me to another thread, and don't attack me head on. That's staying on the sidelines and taking pot shots...

Oh, for all my argueements I'll use links too!!!

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Tabb
I find it weak that you always refer me to another thread, and don't attack me head on. That's staying on the sidelines and taking pot shots...

Oh, for all my argueements I'll use links too!!!

I find it weak that you expect me to retype everything just to appease you. Do your own legwork - the link I posted is to this very forum in a thread that has been discussed all week this week. You had your chance to have this discussion with me 1 on 1, instigated by you, and you buggered off. You're obviously unaware of any arguments surrounding the issue other than those presented to you and I don't really have the time tonight to try to teach you all of the facets of this debate. If you're really interested, you'll either have to do some of your own reading or wait. I can give you links if you need something to read in the meanwhile.

[SuperTool]

Awesome, more money and tourism for states with legalized abortion

[Tab]

Do my own legwork? I asked you questions and all you say it's in "XXX" thread. That's pretty pathetic. I am not going to read 20 some anti-aborition links, that's not how the forum should work.

I find it weak that you expect me to retype everything just to appease you. Do your own legwork - the link I posted is to this very forum in a thread that has been discussed all week this week. You had your chance to have this discussion with me 1 on 1, instigated by you, and you buggered off. You're obviously unaware of any arguments surrounding the issue other than those presented to you and I don't really have the time tonight to try to teach you all of the facets of this debate. If you're really interested, you'll either have to do some of your own reading or wait. I can give you links if you need something to read in the meanwhile.

Let's look at your private message...

Women who have abortions suffer a variety of physical, mental, and emotional symptoms. Some physical symptoms, particularly sterility, can occur immediately or shortly after the procedure. In the long run, women who have had abortions have a greatly increased risk of developing certain cancers. Such women have a severe increase in risk of depression and suicidal thoughts, which typically occur anywhere from months to years after the abortion as part of a post-abortive stress disorder.

I have ithopathic multiple scorcsis and had a metal rod put in my back. I am sure I can come up with millions of reasons to NOT have had this surgery.

Fathers have absolutely no rights when abortions are performed and can neither force nor deny the procedure. The mother doesn't even need to inform the father that she's having an abortion or even that she was pregnant.

This relates to my previous question. Why should anyone have control over another person's body.

The ancient Hypocratic Oath actually speaks on abortion: "I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy." From a scientific standpoint, there is no question that an abortion is ending a life. Therefore, it is gravely contrary to the principles of medicine. Thus, many medical professionals must struggle against something they see as a violation of their sacred duty to heal and actually use their skills to take a life. My own father, who is not religious, lost his job as director of family practice (basically, part of a hospital that teaches incoming residents how to be doctors in case you're not familiar) because he refused to teach abortions. This is probably the reason that I have invested so much effort into learning about it.

That's the problem, prove to me that a fetus is infact a human life as you say it is. Is a embyro a human life as well? Where's the limit? Prove to me that women should be forced to have childeren.

[imported_tss4]

Tabb, his very next repsonse is going to be "No, the burden of proof is on you to prove to me that its NOT a person!" Might as well address that now and save yourself some time. These threads are getting awfully repetitive.

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: Tabb
Do my own legwork? I asked you questions and all you say it's in "XXX" thread. That's

So you never responded to the PM, but now you post it in a thread completely removed from context? :cookie:

You're not interested in anything other than riling people up. If you were interested, you could very readily go to the thread I linked to and read clear refutation of your position. Instead, you want me to waste my time patronizing you in this thred by regurgitating everything yet again. I'm done with you.

Originally posted by: tss4
Tabb, his very next repsonse is going to be "No, the burden of proof is on you to prove to me that its NOT a person!" Might as well address that now and save yourself some time. These threads are getting awfully repetitive.

Funny, I'm pretty sure whenever you've asked me a question on this subject I've answered it straight away. Amazing how you just slink away after the fact only to rear your ugly head a few weeks later in a different thread just to poke at me. Lots of integrity.

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

I've already demonstrated in at least one very recent thread (this week) why a fetus is not part of a woman's body. This thread I believe.

You started this dialogue before, then abandoned it. If you're really interested, feel free to continue, but don't sit to the side and take potshots. That's just weak.

You've demonstrated how you arrive at the opinion that a fetus is not part of a woman's body. While I respect your opinion, not everyone is equally convinced. I would have continued discussing it with you, but my time is limited and frankly abortion threads just get tedious after a while. Not your fault really -- it's just one of those topics that people don't change their minds over based on an Internet forum discussion. I think you know what I'm saying.

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

So you never responded to the PM, but now you post it in a thread completely removed from context? :cookie:

You're not interested in anything other than riling people up. If you were interested, you could very readily go to the thread I linked to and read clear refutation of your position. Instead, you want me to waste my time patronizing you in this thred by regurgitating everything yet again. I'm done with you.

Funny, I'm pretty sure whenever you've asked me a question on this subject I've answered it straight away. Amazing how you just slink away after the fact only to rear your ugly head a few weeks later in a different thread just to poke at me. Lots of integrity.

Wasn't aware I was poking fun at you. I was commenting on the repetitiveness of the debate. You yourself have commented a few times that you have allready answered several questions in previous threads. You then post links to the threads because you don't feel like repeating yourself. I was addressing that point to Tabb so that he could get to the next point that you were going to make. Thought I was saving you some work. You didn't have to bitch slap me for it. I wasn't being an ass to you.

As for this line
"I'm pretty sure whenever you've asked me a question on this subject I've answered it straight away"

I wasn't aware that I was saying that you wouldn't or were being evasive in any way shape or form. In fact I could see Tabb being more upset with my comment than you. Reread what I said and honestly tell me again that I was trying to be a jerk to you. I thought you were ok, but you were kind of an ass about this.

As for slinking away. I have a lot of work to do and do not have the time nor energy to comment all the time. I like to read others opinions but I get tired of loops in the conversation, so I thought maybe I could get Tabb to skip ahead to what your response was going to be. I wanted to hear his response and didn't feel like waiting for you to say what I knew was coming. It was not an attack on you or your opinion. I don't see I have in any way acted in a way that lacked integrity. Please fill me in. I'm all ears.

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: tss4
Wasn't aware I was poking fun at you. I was commenting on the repetitiveness of the debate. You yourself have commented a few times that you have allready answered several questions in previous threads. You then post links to the threads because you don't feel like repeating yourself. I was addressing that point to Tabb so that he could get to the next point that you were going to make. Thought I was saving you some work. You didn't have to bitch slap me for it. I wasn't being an ass to you.

As for this line
"I'm pretty sure whenever you've asked me a question on this subject I've answered it straight away"

I wasn't aware that I was saying that you wouldn't or were being evasive in any way shape or form. In fact I could see Tabb being more upset with my comment than you. Reread what I said and honestly tell me again that I was trying to be a jerk to you. I thought you were ok, but you were kind of an ass about this.

As for slinking away. I have a lot of work to do and do not have the time nor energy to comment all the time. I like to read others opinions but I get tired of loops in the conversation, so I thought maybe I could get Tabb to skip ahead to what your response was going to be. I wanted to hear his response and didn't feel like waiting for you to say what I knew was coming. It was not an attack on you or your opinion. I don't see I have in any way acted in a way that lacked integrity. Please fill me in. I'm all ears.

You said: Tabb, his very next repsonse is going to be "No, the burden of proof is on you to prove to me that its NOT a person!" I'm sure he'll be really bent out of shape that you're putting words in my mouth. But I'm the one being an ass.

[wylecoyote]

Whoa fellas.... Let's all stay on topic here. Have a beer, take a nap, do whatever you need to do to get the sand out of our panties.

I'd like to steer the conversation back to it's original course... Before I do that, I'd like to thank Rip for cutting and pasting a oh-so-scholarly article from a pro-life christian site then disappearing.

Ok. Now. I think I speak for all pro-choicers here when I say that none of us, including myself, are pro-abortion or "celebrating" abortion. Abortion in all cases is an unfortunate and tragic action. However, I believe that it is a necessary evil. Truth is, people are prone to mistakes. They always have been, they always will be. "To be human is to err." They are irresponsible, drunk, or just plain stupid. We are all capable of this, believe it or not. It is idealistic, perhaps even harmful, to think otherwise.

Women will get raped. Men will rape women. It has been happening since time immemorial. Us guys (I presume most of us are male) cannot imagine the pyschological agony and pain of being raped and then having the child of the man who assaulted, violated, and forever scarred you.

So we all agree abortion is an awful thing... in this country, no one can tell anyone else what they can or cannot believe, say, or, along these lines, do with their own bodies. Granted, many people say it's the babies body, but with the exception of partial-birth abortions which are only permitted when the life of the mother is on the line, aboprtions are legal only within the first trimester, when the baby is still classified as an embryo. Not a fetus. A central nervous system has not formed, and the embryo is only about 3 inches long. This is a far far cry from anything resembling a baby.

I guess what I'm trying to say (I apologize for the lack of articulation) is that abortion is a necessary evil, and that it is unconstitutional for anyone to impinge on another's body, choices, or beliefs.

And Rip, abstinence is hardly a solution. Teenagers take abstinence pledges, and lo and behold, break them. And oh sh!t, they have no education on how to properly use contraceptives. (read more about the failure of the current Abstinence Only education policy here ... for you Rip)

[imported_tss4]

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

You said: Tabb, his very next repsonse is going to be "No, the burden of proof is on you to prove to me that its NOT a person!" I'm sure he'll be really bent out of shape that you're putting words in my mouth. But I'm the one being an ass.

Is that not a major component of what your arguement would have been? Would he not have had to address that very point for you? I didn't criticize the arguement. I skipped the step of you having to repeat it to him. Your looking for a fight where there wasn't one. And it was uncalled for. You quoted me but you have failed to show me what I said that was so derogatory toward you.

I'm still waiting for his response to that question. What would he say to about the burden of proof? Its a valid point of the debate that you have brought up countless times before and I wanted to hear his answer.

[Tab]

Let's look at your original Private Message... I've bolded what I copied and pasted...

Abortion hurts a number of people. I'll assume that since you asked this question, you don't consider the fetus to be a person. Then, the people hurt are the mother, father, and medical staff performing the procedure.

Women who have abortions suffer a variety of physical, mental, and emotional symptoms. Some physical symptoms, particularly sterility, can occur immediately or shortly after the procedure. In the long run, women who have had abortions have a greatly increased risk of developing certain cancers. Such women have a severe increase in risk of depression and suicidal thoughts, which typically occur anywhere from months to years after the abortion as part of a post-abortive stress disorder.

Fathers have absolutely no rights when abortions are performed and can neither force nor deny the procedure. The mother doesn't even need to inform the father that she's having an abortion or even that she was pregnant.

The ancient Hypocratic Oath actually speaks on abortion: "I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody if asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy." From a scientific standpoint, there is no question that an abortion is ending a life. Therefore, it is gravely contrary to the principles of medicine. Thus, many medical professionals must struggle against something they see as a violation of their sacred duty to heal and actually use their skills to take a life. My own father, who is not religious, lost his job as director of family practice (basically, part of a hospital that teaches incoming residents how to be doctors in case you're not familiar) because he refused to teach abortions. This is probably the reason that I have invested so much effort into learning about it.

So, even if you neglect the possibility that a fetus is hurt by the procedure, it is hardly a victimless act. Though the manifestations of the hurt may not be completely obvious, they most certainly exist.

Thanks for actually being curious about the subject. I can talk to you about it as much as you can stand to listen. :thumbsup:

Let's look at what I said earlier...

Originally posted by: Tabb
Do my own legwork? I asked you questions and all you say it's in "XXX" thread. That's pretty pathetic. I am not going to read 20 some anti-aborition links, that's not how the forum should work.

I find it weak that you expect me to retype everything just to appease you. Do your own legwork - the link I posted is to this very forum in a thread that has been discussed all week this week. You had your chance to have this discussion with me 1 on 1, instigated by you, and you buggered off. You're obviously unaware of any arguments surrounding the issue other than those presented to you and I don't really have the time tonight to try to teach you all of the facets of this debate. If you're really interested, you'll either have to do some of your own reading or wait. I can give you links if you need something to read in the meanwhile.

I have ithopathic multiple scorcsis and had a metal rod put in my back. I am sure I can come up with millions of reasons to NOT have had this surgery.

This relates to my previous question. Why should anyone have control over another person's body.

That's the problem, prove to me that a fetus is infact a human life as you say it is. Is a embyro a human life as well? Where's the limit? Prove to me that women should be forced to have childeren.

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

So you never responded to the PM, but now you post it in a thread completely removed from context? :cookie:

You're not interested in anything other than riling people up. If you were interested, you could very readily go to the thread I linked to and read clear refutation of your position. Instead, you want me to waste my time patronizing you in this thred by regurgitating everything yet again. I'm done with you.

That's completely removed from context? I think it gets the same "opinion" across, don't you?

Originally posted by: CycloWizard

You said: Tabb, his very next repsonse is going to be "No, the burden of proof is on you to prove to me that its NOT a person!" I'm sure he'll be really bent out of shape that you're putting words in my mouth. But I'm the one being an ass.

I am really TO'd that tss4 did this, shame on him. We (Rip,Tabb,Cyclo) know that god will judge him in the end.

I myself don't agree with aborition. I've yet to see why I should force a women to bring life to the world. What right do I have to tell her that she must do this? Why should we bring life into poverty or dispair? The world has enough people who have miserable lives, lets not make anymore. Why should anyone be forced to bear someone's child who she did not want (rape)? How many child care centers have you donated too Cyclo? Do you plan on adopting any kids? Where are the benfits to those who do go through with having un-wanted childeren?