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Old 01-17-2008, 11:10 AM   #1
JEDI
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

I bought BF Goodrich Traction T/A's (H-rating) last month.

today, it's snowing. the ground only had like 1/2" of snow. i was going about 30mph in a 45mph zone, and left plenty of space between me and the car in front.

he hit his brakes, and i hit mine softly since there was lots of space. i noticed i wasnt slowing down as normal. so i pressed on the brakes harder (not ABS), and my car started to turn sideways about 10 degrees.

Traction T/A's have AA traction rating.

Is it normal for new tires with a good traction rating to slip and slide when braking in light snow? If so, WHY?
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:27 AM   #2
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

The UTQG ratings are not particularly good at showing real world performance. In fact, almost any modern tire will rate A or AA in traction. I pulled an explanation from the UTQG website:

Quote:
TRACTION

The traction grades, from highest to lowest, are A,B and C, and they represent the tire's ability to stop on wet pavement as measured under controlled conditions on specified government test surfaces of asphalt and concrete.

(TEST PROCEDURE)

The tire to be tested is inflated to 24psi (165KPa) and installed on the test apparatus (instrumented trailer). The tire is loaded to 1,085 pounds (492kg). The trailer is towed over the wetted test area at 40mph (65km/h) and the rotating wheel is locked. The tire is dragged in this locked condition through the test area and the friction created is measured.
So that traction rating really doesn't apply in many real-world scenarios. All it does is measure how much friction the tire generates on a wet road when it's locked up. Not very helpful for figuring out things like snow traction.

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Old 01-17-2008, 11:36 AM   #3
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

yes, it is normal and perhaps the rating causes a false sense of security. A light shower of rain can lead to loss of traction perhaps worse than what you noticed with 1/2" of snow (but perhaps not with those tires). The real world is a bitch
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:36 AM   #4
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

For snow and ice you really want to look for the M+S (mud and snow) rating, which any all-season tire should have. According to this, the Traction T/A H is an all-season tire, so shouldn't be that bad. A dedicated snow tire would still be much better.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/...Model=Traction+T%2FA+H
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:58 AM   #5
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

According to NHTSA
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/...v/evaluate/807805.html

Quote:
"Traction is a tire's ability to stop on wet pavement under controlled conditions. The codes are one of the letters, "A," "B," or "C", with "A" signifying the highest traction coefficient.

Temperature resistance is a tire's resistance to the generation of heat and its ability to dissipate heat when tested under controlled conditions. The codes are one of the letters "A," "B," or "C," with "A" signifying the highest level of performance."
In other word, don't take rating too seriously specially 4 season tires.
Besides the obvious, tires's "fresh coating" require 300~1000 miles to wear off before reach its ultimate traction. It is also not hard to determine what "characteristic" your tire have by looking at the tread design. (let's disregard the compound rating, sidewall strength and etc for now)

Take your tire's tread design for example.
It has uni-directional design. V-pattern is great for anti-hydroplanning. But we all know it takes snow to stop in the snow. If it propell the snow off your tires, w/ multi-Channel then it might not be such a great snow performer. Notice great snow tires always has multi-uneven-micro grove on their design? So they can "HOLD" snow on tires.

Your tires looks like it should perform well in CITY's dry and rain condition. However, it might be bit noiser since the gap between each block is wider.



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Old 01-17-2008, 03:13 PM   #6
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

lol, OP is a snow noob
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:46 PM   #7
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Check the snow rating on tirerack.com. They could just suck in the snow.

Also don't brake like that in the snow, pump your brakes so you don't lose traction.
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Old 01-17-2008, 03:56 PM   #8
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: TimeKeeper
might not be such a great snow performer. Notice great snow tires always has multi-uneven-micro grove on their design? So they can "HOLD" snow on tires.
If you want the technical term, those micro grooves are called "sipes". And yes they do help for the snow. If you look real close, all-season tires have them, just maybe not as many as a snow tire. Snow tires have other tricks like a micro-porous compound to wick away water.


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Old 01-17-2008, 03:59 PM   #9
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

there is a break in period for tires

think it's 500 miles

Quote:
Originally posted by: spidey07
Check the snow rating on tirerack.com. They could just suck in the snow.

Also don't brake like that in the snow, pump your brakes so you don't lose traction.
apply the brakes slowly instead of slamming on them

take back my previous statement about pumping ABS breaks realized the op said he didn't have ABS brakes.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:09 PM   #10
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: spidey07
Check the snow rating on tirerack.com. They could just suck in the snow.

Also don't brake like that in the snow, pump your brakes so you don't lose traction.
shouldn't have to do that if you have a modern car.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:16 PM   #11
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: w00t
there is a break in period for tires

think it's 500 miles

Quote:
Originally posted by: spidey07
Check the snow rating on tirerack.com. They could just suck in the snow.

Also don't brake like that in the snow, pump your brakes so you don't lose traction.
you don't pump ABS brakes
OP specifically stated he did NOT have ABS. I'm trying to help him from losing control of his car.
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:30 PM   #12
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

How often have you driven in the snow before? I mean, you should know it's not normal if you've been able to stop with other tires before, no?
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Old 01-17-2008, 04:44 PM   #13
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: spidey07
Check the snow rating on tirerack.com. They could just suck in the snow.

Also don't brake like that in the snow, pump your brakes so you don't lose traction.
Pumping the brakes isn't as good as braking steadily near the edge of traction, and easing up and reapplying if you LOSE traction...but that takes a lot more concentration.
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Old 01-17-2008, 07:09 PM   #14
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Those are all season tires. If you get snow you really should have a second set of wheels with snow tires.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:01 PM   #15
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

All season tire + snow - abs = uhoh
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Old 01-17-2008, 11:00 PM   #16
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: shabby
All season tire + snow - abs + snow noob = uhoh
Fixed :laugh:
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Old 01-18-2008, 12:11 AM   #17
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

I have those on the front of my van. They are just ok in snow.
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:03 AM   #18
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

As long as you drive slow and cautiously it doesn't matter what kind of tire you have
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Old 01-21-2008, 11:31 AM   #19
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: SonicIce
As long as you drive slow and cautiously it doesn't matter what kind of tire you have
LOL!

Try a high performance summer tire on snow. You'll be lucky to even move.
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Old 01-21-2008, 12:00 PM   #20
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Default New tires slipping and sliding when braking in 1/2" snow?

Quote:
Originally posted by: JEDI
I bought BF Goodrich Traction T/A's (H-rating) last month.

today, it's snowing. the ground only had like 1/2" of snow. i was going about 30mph in a 45mph zone, and left plenty of space between me and the car in front.

he hit his brakes, and i hit mine softly since there was lots of space. i noticed i wasnt slowing down as normal. so i pressed on the brakes harder (not ABS), and my car started to turn sideways about 10 degrees.

Traction T/A's have AA traction rating.

Is it normal for new tires with a good traction rating to slip and slide when braking in light snow? If so, WHY?
Traction ratings are for *edit* WET performance compared to other's in it's same class.

You need a M+S or pure snow tire for any kind of traction in white stuff.
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