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Old 11-20-2003, 01:24 AM   #1
EricMartello
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Default Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Imagine my surprise when I went to check my email and received a message from none other than Scott Wainer, the "CEO" of Reseller Ratings! I was like, "Huh? Wuh?" Before I go any further, allow me to post the email:

Quote:

Hello,

I don't know what kind of bullshit you folks think you've been pulling but it ends here. Any fraudulent reviews submitted for __some companies___ have been removed. These three companies are now at the top of our watch list and any future fraudulent reviews will be removed and possibly met with legal action for violations of our terms of use agreement, our premium seller services agreement (to which ____some company_____ agreed), and for tampering with our site.

In case you're confused, allow me to explain. Over 100 positive reviews were submitted from ResellerRatings.com user accounts registered to ____some websites___ and @pricerio.com email addresses for _____ some companies ____ , as well as other email addresses and using a wide variety of ISP's. The registrant of ____a website____ is identical to __another website___, and all three companies are in PA.

Regards,

Scott Wainner
President/CEO
ResellerRatings.com
I rated one of the sites several times, but each time was for a legitimate purchase AND I was fully satisfied. And no, I did not reply, yet. Guess what, Scott changed my POSITIVE ratings to negative, thus reducing the companie's rating!! Isn't that illegal?

I removed the companies Scot was accusing of fraudulent postings because I think this guy is full of crap. I've always considered "user supported" sites like reseller ratings one of those "good on paper, bad in practice" kinda deals, because they are poorly regulated and most of the posts are either the business saying good stuff about themselves, or competitors posting negative comments to make the other guy look bad. Sure there is some legitimate stuff, but no where near enough to make an educated purchase decision. In the end, it's the consumer who is left with misinformation.

Obviously, if the CEO of a company opens his messages with "I don't know what kind of bullshit...", that tells you all you need to know about what you are dealing with. What I find humourous is this guy's warped perception of legality, threatening legal action against websites that HE added to his own website!!! How funny is that!? How about I add BizRate to my website, then accuse them of posting fradulent comments on my site, and then threaten to sue them for it! LOL Wow, what a douche.

Here is an interesting note. If you read NewEgg's feedback, you will see that every "very dissatisfied" comment is almost immediately padded with several short "Very satisfied" comments. Hmm, each one of the users posting the "very satisfied" comments has postcounts of 0. Also, check the companies with perfect 10s. Nothing is perfect. Looks like ResellerRatings can be purchased as well.

Guys, if you care about the quality of the places you shop, do me a favor and find a replacement for Reseller Ratings. BizRate, Dealtime, CNET -- at least on these sites, it is usually obvious when the post is fake. These sites also do a much better job of maintaining integrity. ResellerRatings is a crappy vBulletin Hack. Seems like this guy just wants to make a quick buck from advertising. Please do not base your purchase decision solely on what you see on Reseller Ratings, because 9 times out of 10 you will be reading something totally fake!

I think this should be posted up as news on hardware sites, because a lot of people have been entrusting REsellerRatings with their purchase decisions. It is not fair to the businesses or the consumer if the site content is not accurate.



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Old 11-20-2003, 01:47 AM   #2
Wolfsraider
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

hmm

resellerator ratings have always been right on the mark for me.

newegg has always treated me right
as well as zipzoomfly,mwave etc...

maybe they were flooded with a bunch of idgits trying to rate sites higher and after trying to rectify the problem,realized a connection involving email addresses.there are enough problems on the internet, that it shouldn't suprise you to see this sort of thing happening to a valuable resource like reseller ratings.

to be honest,it seems that he did his homework and if true all registrants were one and the same...heck i'd believe it too.

why wouldn't you want a reputable rating site to question whether or not some folks were jacking up the ratings,when in fact,it may ruin having a rating system thats at least useable?


just mho so take it with a grain of salt
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Old 11-20-2003, 01:56 AM   #3
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Why not try replying?

You apparently got lumped in with the spam because yours looked like it was more of the same, that's understandably annoying but not quite enough to support gathering the lynch mob just yet.

Resllerratings has been an extremely valuable resource for several years now, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.
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Old 11-20-2003, 02:31 AM   #4
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

No, the reason I got an email was because I rated on of the shops, positively, after making a purchase. I don't think Scott's conclusion or actions are justified. People shop all over the place, simply because somoene with the same domain in their email reviewed more than one site DOES NOT make it a false posting. He even admitted that each post had a unique ISP. Usually, fake posts will have the same IP, or at least the same range of IPs. How is he figuring their legitimacy? He is acting purely on misguided assumptions.

Also, I reviewed this store nearly 8 months ago! Why am I hearing about it now? It's like he suddenly decided I was in on some scam. I just feel that this accusation is highly out of line, and that the ResellerRatings is not all it is cracked up to be. I mean nothing bad against Newegg, I've ordered from them plenty of times and they're just fine. I just wanted to point out the inherent suspiciousness of the feedbacks, yet reseller ratings does nothing.

I didn't reply to him because I really have nothing to say. I am upset about the fact that he altereded my original ratings just to make the company look bad...I also do not like his general "holier than thou" attitude, like if things are not HIS way, they are "fraudulent".

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Old 11-20-2003, 06:51 AM   #5
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Give me a break. Resellare ratings is by FAR the best site of its kind on the net. So they made a small mistake, trying to keep companies from dropping multiple positives.
I say lay off the coffee!!![img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:13 AM   #6
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Have you checked the headers and routing information on the original email? Are you sure it's actually from Scott Wainner?
Quote:
Give me a break. Resellare ratings is by FAR the best site of its kind on the net. So they made a small mistake, trying to keep companies from dropping multiple positives.I say lay off the coffee!!!
Sorry dude but I (and likely othere here) completely disagree. A little mistake is emailing a polite and to the point email to a few individuals (perhaps asking for further details of their purchase/interaction with a reseller before claiming it fraudulent). Making a BIG mistake is emailing a rude/clueless/factually unsupported email to 100s of people.

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Old 11-20-2003, 08:26 AM   #7
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Scott has a right to be mad if a merchant is stuffing his ratings site. But...

If Scott changed your ratings, then that's very poor ethics. If he had chosen simply to delete them entirely, that would have been more acceptable, since he could at least claim that he's simply trying to remove bad data. But now he has made a unilateral determination that he can change anyone's ratings for reasons he thinks are good.

What if Scott himself has a poor experience with a merchant? Now he can claim that all the good ratings for a merchant are fake, and change the ratings to suit his opinion.

This is a terrible precedent, and reflects very badly on Resellerratings. It was bad enough when he went commercial, which immediately cast doubt on the integrity of the site.
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:29 AM   #8
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

LOL....some bozo posts an unsubstantiated email and everyone gets into the ring. Dude...email him back and straighten it out. Posting crap like that here is meaningless. Jeesh.
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:49 AM   #9
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

use resellerratings at your own judgement

after all when tiger direct has a better rating than staples, bestbuy, officemax, circuit city you know something is wrong!

i know, none of those sites have prices/speed compared to newegg and such... but tiger direct?
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Old 11-20-2003, 08:51 AM   #10
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

I thought u were only suppose to do ONE review per company anyways? not multiple
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:06 PM   #11
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

This guy Scott clearly acted on assumption, and assaulted 3 resellers. I KNOW it was him because as I said, the stores in question got their ratings all mucked up. I guess he feels that he is trying to "punish" them by purposely changing the ratings. Funny thing is, he did not change the actual review text, so you have a bunch of customers that are "very satisfied" yet the company has a 5 or 6 rating.

I always review a company each time I purchase. Sometimes things change and what was once a good place to shop now sucks, and vice versa. It is not like I made multiple accounts or anything.

And yeah, I am "some bozo", right. Excuse me for simply sharing my experiences with a group. I NEVER got anything like this from BizRate, and I find BizRate to be much better at what they do for several reason. First of all, they are not a complaint magnet like RR, second, they actually know how to run a business so they got a staff who checks each review for legitimacy before allowing it to be posted. Keep in mind that RR is essentially a "mom and pop" operation. Scott wants to make as much money as possible from his ad revenues, that's really all he cares about.

My point is simply to state that Reseller Ratings is not the "great resource" everyone seems to think it is, and to check at least one other site before choosing or avoiding a shop.
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:15 PM   #12
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
Scott wants to make as much money as possible from his ad revenues, that's really all he cares about.
Evidence? If you're not going to take a minute to send him an email, and instead will just keep slinging the mud, it's not going to help your credibility much.
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:30 PM   #13
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

I am not going to dignify his email with a response. He has already accused me of being a fraud, he has already altered my reviews. Why would I care about reseller ratings otherwise? I don't own a store, and they are not "competing" with my website. If someone lets a review sit on their site for 8 months, then suddenly decides it is false and ATTACKS the person who posted it, that is all the evidence I need to start the bashing.

The only thing I can see worth doing is spamming his site with bogus reviews, because if he is going to accuse me of it, I might as well actually do it. haha But that would be nothing new, because like 90% of his reviews are false. He just doesn't have the manpower or intelligence to catch them.
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:36 PM   #14
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
Originally posted by: EricMartello
The only thing I can see worth doing is spamming his site with bogus reviews, because if he is going to accuse me of it, I might as well actually do it. haha But that would be nothing new, because like 90% of his reviews are false. He just doesn't have the manpower or intelligence to catch them.
Well I'm going to accuse you of being a dumbass, so you might as well be one. Maybe he made assumptions, but you're doing the same thing right back, grow up.

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Old 11-20-2003, 04:37 PM   #15
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
Sorry dude but I (and likely othere here) completely disagree. A little mistake is emailing a polite and to the point email to a few individuals (perhaps asking for further details of their purchase/interaction with a reseller before claiming it fraudulent). Making a BIG mistake is emailing a rude/clueless/factually unsupported email to 100s of people.
Well dude, I think this guy is making something out of nothing. I am sure that policing companies from fixing the rankings becomes very frustrating and this likely explains the anger in the email. Also, there is a possiblility that this email was 'accidently' sent to the wrong people and it was a mistake that he received it. I think thats hardly worth slamming RR over.
IMO, 'eric' should email the author asking for an explanation, and if the explanation doesnt jive, then cry about it on the forums and not vice versa.

BTW, do you really think RR is running a covert operation to 'fix' companies ratings and send out abusive emails?[img]i/expressions/rolleye.gif[/img]


edit: After re-reading the email, this is proof positive to me that RR is hell bent on not letting companies screw with the ratings, which IMO, is a good thing
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:48 PM   #16
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
Originally posted by: EricMartello
I am not going to dignify his email with a response. He has already accused me of being a fraud, he has already altered my reviews. Why would I care about reseller ratings otherwise? I don't own a store, and they are not "competing" with my website. If someone lets a review sit on their site for 8 months, then suddenly decides it is false and ATTACKS the person who posted it, that is all the evidence I need to start the bashing.

The only thing I can see worth doing is spamming his site with bogus reviews, because if he is going to accuse me of it, I might as well actually do it. haha But that would be nothing new, because like 90% of his reviews are false. He just doesn't have the manpower or intelligence to catch them.
Quote:
... Looks like ResellerRatings can be purchased as well ...
... ResellerRatings is a crappy vBulletin Hack. Seems like this guy just wants to make a quick buck from advertising. ....
... Scott wants to make as much money as possible from his ad revenues, that's really all he cares about ...
So, mudslinging and childish sabotage are all you'll do? Perhaps you really are guilty of this and are just posting here to smear RR because you're angry at being caught. Or perhaps there was some dispute with RR over your "pricerio.com" website and there never was an email.

How can we tell from one, obviously venomous, side of the story?
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Old 11-20-2003, 04:58 PM   #17
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Considering that the reviews in question were legitimate, it just shows that RR is as incompetent as they come. THEY DO NOT check the ratings that are posted unless someone says something. THey DO NOT "police" Their site, IF THEY DID, THEY WOULD NOT HAVE TAKEN 8 MONTHS TO DECIDE SOME REVIEWS WERE FAKE!

Why don't you just face the facts that your little bubble of security can be popped quite easily. THe problem is not my credibility, the problem is you are too lazy to find another resource for gauging the quality of a shop! Don't try and turn this around on me and make it look like I am the one doing something wrong.

- I did not falsify my reviews - RR did that for me
- I did not attack RR and threaten baseless legal action - RR did that too
- RR has already taken action without any solid evidence
- RR is operated by a very small group of people who are in over their heads

So if you want to stick up for them, go ahead, but don't do it behind false pretenses. Asking me for evidence? Where is the EVIDENCE that ANY review posted on RR is legitimate. I don't see anyone questioning THAT.

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Old 11-20-2003, 08:26 PM   #18
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
I rated one of the sites several times, but each time was for a legitimate purchase AND I was fully satisfied
did you include invoice numbers?
Quote:
I removed the companies Scot was accusing of fraudulent postings because I think this guy is full of crap
since you removed the reviews i guess we'll have to take your word for it,huh.but read this:
Quote:
Merchants, A Warning about Fraud:

If you work for this company or are in any way affiliated with this company or any other company listed at ResellerRatings.com, do NOT submit a comment or evaluation. Through our automated and manual fraud checks, if we discover that you posted a fraudulent evaluation, your company will get blacklisted
manual checks on all the sites listed could take months to sort through.
blacklisted
Quote:
Q: I created one or more fake accounts and submitted one or more fake ratings for my own company or for another company at ResellerRatings, and now there is an "admin note" on my company's reviews page letting the public know about my fraudulent actions. What can I do about this?

A: Our open letter, terms of use agreement, registration agreement, and survey page, all forbid retailers from submitting reviews for their own company or any company on our site. Upon the discovery that you are responsible for fraudulent reviews, we will post a note on your reviews page detailing our findings for 60 days. If you continue to post fraudulent reviews, the note detailing our findings will appear on your reviews page permanently.
Quote:
Q: I evaluated a company in the past but my opinion has since changed. How do I update my previous evaluation?

A: If you submitted an evaluation for a company on or after 3/11/2002, you can change your answers to the survey questions as well as your comments, by simply going to that company's "Rate this seller" link. The system will display your evaluation for you to edit.
kinda looks like scott was "following through"

why are you not getting this straightened out?i mean if you have invoices and are not a part of pricerio.com whats stopping you from showing proof?

maybe if you had this "proof" that you were in the right,you would be taking this up with scott.

sorry for your grief,but sounds like you don't have anything that will help you prove your case.
griping here won't change anything.but if i was wrongly accused as you say you were,you can bet i would obtain the proof to set this straight

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Old 11-20-2003, 09:45 PM   #19
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

I am sorry, but I am not going to hassle myself with this crap. I threw my invoices away long ago so I don't have the numbers. And besides, why should I have to prove anything. Either EVERYONE needs "proof" or nobody, none of this double standard stuff. I did nothing to warrant having to prove anything to anybody.

Any time measured in "months" or greater is TOO LONG for reviews to be "evaluated". Dude, you just don't get it. RR doesn't care what anyone says. The won't lift a finger to do anything unless someone complains, and the only reason they did what they did was to cover their own asses. You are giving them far too much credit, and it is most upsetting to see that RR cannot be trusted, because I too used to use them before making purchases.

RR is definitely not accurate, as it gives Dell a 2.4 and TigerDirect a 3.4...I have ordered various products from both of these places, and never once did I enounter something I could not resolve. Fortunately, RR only caters to a niche market and most businesses don't care what is posted on RR...otherwise, RR would be in a whirlwind of legal trouble by now for profitting from libel and defamation of legitimate businesses.

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Old 11-20-2003, 10:06 PM   #20
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
TigerDirect a 3.4
Tiger actually has a 6.82. I really have no explanation as to why tigers rating is so high, as I would rather buy items off Egay then order anything from tigerdirect. IF you havent heard, Tiger direct has gotten a really bad reputation for numerous scams, unwillingness to settle returns and so on, if you cannot believe this, just check with the Better Business Bureau.
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Old 11-20-2003, 10:15 PM   #21
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Eric = BAN ...... hehehe ..... jk.

But dude, relax. If you don't like there site or practices don't go there, that simple.
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Old 11-20-2003, 10:45 PM   #22
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Their lifetime rating is 5.8, and that's not too high.

There is nothing on the BBB site, other than something about their warranty policy. As I stated before, Tiger has never given me problems, so whatever. Maybe people should stop buying stuff with the intent to return it. I hardly return anything I buy unless it is genuinely defective, or not as advertised.

Explain to my why Dell has a 2.11, yet is rated favorably on BizRate. Easy...RR doesn't check anything, BizRate does.



Quote:
Originally posted by: Snoop
Quote:
TigerDirect a 3.4
Tiger actually has a 6.82. I really have no explanation as to why tigers rating is so high, as I would rather buy items off Egay then order anything from tigerdirect. IF you havent heard, Tiger direct has gotten a really bad reputation for numerous scams, unwillingness to settle returns and so on, if you cannot believe this, just check with the Better Business Bureau.
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Old 11-20-2003, 11:02 PM   #23
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

EricMartello, I could have sworn I saw your name linked with a ResellerRating complain in the past.

RR is literarily mobbed with false positives and companies soliciting positives.

It's had to keep it honest without nailing a few good guys. If you responded and provide proof (since you seem to care if you really do) I am sure your positives will be back in force. If you don't have proof stop whining, it's like crying about getting a speeding ticket when other's are speeding too.

Quote:

Over 100 positive reviews were submitted from ResellerRatings.com user accounts registered to ____some websites___ and @pricerio.com email addresses for _____ some companies ____ , as well as other email addresses and using a wide variety of ISP's. The registrant of ____a website____ is identical to __another website___, and all three companies are in PA.
This seems utterly fishy to me....how many identities are being used to buy with and why?

The thing is most of these accused companies are guilty....some good examples are the small mom and pop shops suddeningly clearing $50k a month in sales.

RR provides a great service if you ask me.

Now more interesting is Pricerio.com is registered with fraudulent information....someone should contest that. Holomaxx.com comes up under this domain and in PA
1 pricerio plaza
new york, ny 10021
215-3333333

Interesting choice for NY with a phone number from PA, my bet is this address is a fraud

The other site HTPCForums.com also has Holomaxx come up, and in PA
PO BOX 11107
Phila, PA 19136
215-816-5024


Holomaxx.com also is in PA.
PO BOX 11107
Phila, PA 19136
no phone given

Seems you are a very sketchy guy
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Old 11-21-2003, 12:13 AM   #24
EricMartello
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

Quote:
Originally posted by: alkemyst
EricMartello, I could have sworn I saw your name linked with a ResellerRating complain in the past.

RR is literarily mobbed with false positives and companies soliciting positives.

It's had to keep it honest without nailing a few good guys. If you responded and provide proof (since you seem to care if you really do) I am sure your positives will be back in force. If you don't have proof stop whining, it's like crying about getting a speeding ticket when other's are speeding too.
As I said before, either EVERYONE is required to prove their rating, or NOBODY. RR has a responsibility to maintain the integrity of their site. If they can't or don't, then they should not be operating such a site.


Quote:

This seems utterly fishy to me....how many identities are being used to buy with and why?

Seems you are a very sketchy guy

Holomaxx.com created and hosts my website. Incidentally, being in the hosting business, they host quite a few sites. Enjoy hiding behind your comptuer you little piece of crap. You know you wouldn't post or try to post anyones personal info if you thought there was a chance that you were not comfortably anonymous.


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Old 11-21-2003, 09:40 AM   #25
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Default RE:Reseller Ratings = Fake Ratings

[quote]
Originally posted by: EricMartello
Quote:


Holomaxx.com created and hosts my website. Incidentally, being in the hosting business, they host quite a few sites. Enjoy hiding behind your comptuer you little piece of crap. You know you wouldn't post or try to post anyones personal info if you thought there was a chance that you were not comfortably anonymous.
sure thing chisel chest, I don't really think there is anyone here that could say I try to stay comfortably anonymous, as a matter of fact I don't know of one thing I have hidden from anyone. I live exactly on the corner of Ocean Avenue and S. Broadway in Lantana, FL 33462...stop by and I will be sure to give you a warm welcome. Registration information on the net is NOT personal information for YOUR information. That email you posted WAS PERSONAL...you know how many hypocritical statements you have made in this thread alone? Do you think the WHOLE WORLD is wrong but you are right regularly? Did you mother not give you the love you needed or perhaps the 'wrong' kind of love?

Here's a picture of me to since you seem to think I am hiding myself plus I am an attention whore, I can kill two birds with this: ME HIDING FROM THE INTRAWEB

Face it there are GLARING problems with your registrations which all appear to be from the same person using fake addresses and phone number information. YOU DO KNOW that if someone really wanted they could take your sites away due to fraudulant registration. The internet is not make believe world there tough guy. You really have me running though, my what big muscles you have.

I wasn't trying to start a war with you though, just pointing out how it's obvious to ANYONE the problem RR would see with any kind of feedback coming from those domains. You want to be a punk bastage and throw crap back at me fine...but keep in mind other's on this board I am sure see my side of this a lot more than yours. If there was nothing you were hiding the simple response would be to reply to his email to straighten it out.

It was not my job to be anonymous or out in the open, you posted a thread here and I replied why you are wrong in your explaination. You getting defensive proves there probably is more to this story than you are leading us to believe. Does Holomaxx host any retailer sites that were voted for? Do those have real address info?

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