Subaru BRZ & Scion FR-S Sales in 2012

[ElFenix]

Originally Posted by Kelvrick

Interesting. I thought production of the FRS and BRZ was split more evenly. Guess not since dealers are still marking up BRZ's.

i wonder if the difference is that on a toyota lot the car someone else might cross shop is a tc, while on a subaru lot it'd be a wrx.

[Imported]

I'd probably opt for the BRZ Limited if I needed to buy now. It'd be a perfect all-around car for what I would and want to use it for I imagine.

Though if I was going for a track car (and track only), I'd get a used 350Z. Much cheaper and I know the platform very well. My Miata's fun but I do miss the power of the VQ.

[power_hour]

holy crap are those stats lousy

Make mine a Toyota Celica Supra Turbo AWD, black with leather. Hurry up and build them.

[Zap]

Originally Posted by ElFenix

i wonder if the difference is that on a toyota lot the car someone else might cross shop is a tc, while on a subaru lot it'd be a wrx.

That would be my guess. It fits the Scion product line, but not Subaru. Heck, even the salesman at our Subaru dealer cross-shopped the BRZ and WRX, and ended up with the WRX.

[Kelvrick]

Originally Posted by Zap

That would be my guess. It fits the Scion product line, but not Subaru. Heck, even the salesman at our Subaru dealer cross-shopped the BRZ and WRX, and ended up with the WRX.

Can he get it for MSRP?

I still know people willing to pay 2k over msrp but dealers here are still "advertising" them for 35-40k. That, and they're waiting for what the STI will bring.

A friend of mine jsut went to a subaru dealership yesterday since he has been looking for something cheaper to bring to the track instead of wreaking his dd gtr. I asked him how much they are asking and he said they wouldn't say, just kept pushing him to sign finance papers before even a test drive.

Granted, this particular dealership doesn't have the best reputation in the area. I also know he probably wasn't going to buy it and is looking to get a used subaru 2.5rs like he had in high school.

[Fmr12B]

Originally Posted by Kelvrick

Can he get it for MSRP?

I still know people willing to pay 2k over msrp but dealers here are still "advertising" them for 35-40k. That, and they're waiting for what the STI will bring.

A friend of mine jsut went to a subaru dealership yesterday since he has been looking for something cheaper to bring to the track instead of wreaking his dd gtr. I asked him how much they are asking and he said they wouldn't say, just kept pushing him to sign finance papers before even a test drive.

Anyone paying over MSRP today is a idiot - These are not flying off the lots. And if your friends were serious they would place an order with the dealer and not pay a mark-up.

MSRP - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAND...item3ccdfd2040

[Baked]

There are definitely more FR-S around here. After reading long term review, despite BRZ adding extras in the Limited version, the premium price asked is not justified. I can see why there are more FR-S. You're buying the car essentially for the driving experience, not so much for the extras they throw in the cabin.

[Kelvrick]

Originally Posted by Fmr12B

Anyone paying over MSRP today is a idiot - These are not flying off the lots. And if your friends were serious they would place an order with the dealer and not pay a mark-up.

MSRP - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BRAND...item3ccdfd2040

He definitely wasn't serious yet, but who knows with a test drive.

EDIT: Regarding the cross-shop, I can see that. Although, having driven them (FRS), they are completely different cars.

[ballmode]

Sat in both at the local autoshow around the holidays. Preferred the seats of the FRS but the rest of the interior of the brz.

Also liked that plastic diffuser under the bumper of the frs. Other Than that the brz is a better looker

[hans007]

Originally Posted by RedArmy

Different HVAC controls, cloth vs. alcantra depending on trim level of Subaru, touchscreen GPS vs. nothing in the FR-S, heated seats (again, dependent on trim level), and I think maybe a few more minor things. The FR-S is definitely meant as more of a track car due to having the bare minimum.

Xenon lights on the Brz also

[thomsbrain]

S2000 was still moving as many units as the BRZ after six years of production. I suspect there are a lot of people holding out to see what happens with the STi.

[JulesMaximus]

Originally Posted by xSkyDrAx

I feel that the scion crowd is inherently different than the Suby crowd in that the car is marketed to the younger generations and they probably lean towards Scion more than Suby especially when given the choice of essentially the same car.

I feel that the scion crowd has no clue as to how fast other cars are compared to theirs.

[nerp]

Originally Posted by JulesMaximus

I feel that the scion crowd has no clue as to how fast other cars are compared to theirs.

I've noticed that.

[Doppel]

Now that I think of it I believe the only one I've ever seen was at a Toyota dealership.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by JulesMaximus

I feel that the scion crowd has no clue as to how fast other cars are compared to theirs.

i live in socal which is like , mod up your car central. and i actually just drove a scion TC for the last 4 weeks (2005 model).

that said, i've been in various scions over the years and most of them are pretty slow. but toyota figured out that lot of people don't even care how slow their cars are as long as they are acceptable.

to understand scion is to understand southern california car culture (and toyota is based here so maybe that was the idea). people in socal like to mod up their cars for no reason other than to be different. no one really cares if the car is actually better its all about having individual uniqueness, so that they stand out (it is a LA, its what its all about). thats why you see scion TCs with wings and body kits etc. the cars are not that fast (and hell the TC in a straight line is probably about as fast as the FRS). the scion XB with tons of stickers and custom interiors etc, are still slow econoboxes. but i think the idea is that they are personalized.

i have this feeling the FRS/BRZ actually wont for their lifetime sell very well, once the initial adopters are done buying it (kind of like the 370z). the thing is once the real enthusiasts get theirs , the "normal" buyer will look at a TC and a FRS , see that the TC costs $7k less or whatever, and just buy that. its fwd and drives worse. but that saves $7k and they never cared how it drove anyway. thats $7k they can spend on rims and personalization just for the sake of making it modded. people want this like individualization, it has nothing to do with performance. and that is what scion i think is about. in the end the college / teen crowd that just wants a "cool looking" car have other cheap choices, since mos tof them dont really care about performance. so this leaves real enthusiasts and there really arent that many of those.

makes you wonder. the mustang i think sells because its cheap. not because it is RWD or fast, its just that it has a certain image and looks cool. hypothetically i bet if ford made another coupe that somehow also had the same "cool" factor as the mustang but was FWD and cost less, that lots of people would buy it.

[Pia]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

Glass half full/glass half empty debate.

You're saying all the RWD cars with more power are around 30k or more. I'm saying I4 cars under 20k are almost as powerful.

It's pretty obvious the point is "fun" and to a smaller degree "fast", not "powerful".

How can it cost that much more to make a car RWD? They should've just used a normal I4 and tried to hit a 20k base. Then they'd have their very own market segment with an economy RWD car.

I agree on that a cheaper RWD car would be great to have, but that doesn't mean the Toyota/Subaru approach has been bad.

I think as a whole the industry has a problem of constantly reinventing the wheel. Now that they have an obviously good thing in the BRZ, what if they stuck with it for a long time, resisted temptation to fuck with the design, and focused on efficiency and sales volume? What if in two years they were able to sell essentially the same car at sub-$20k? Of course, they could offer a luxury or "high power" model at a higher price point at the same time. Even when they make a major generational leap, why not keep some of the old production capacity going and producing the previous model as the cheap option?

For instance: I'm not interested in the current model MX-5 at current price. I would be interested in a significantly cheaper, freshly built MX-5 that was essentially the 2005 model, only changed where the improvement cost is low or the change is for production efficiency.

[overst33r]

Originally Posted by Fmr12B

Car&Driver Lightning Lap - BRZ was 2.8 seconds faster than Focus ST http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2293154

The Focus didn't get to set a fast lap on the second day because it was immobilized due to a broken key fob. Not really apples to apples. I think the ST is actually faster, especially around a long track like VIR.