Unarmed black 17 year old shot by Neighborhood watch captain in gated community...

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

No, you didn't even read the first sentence. The second doesn't preclude the civil part. They are listed as representing the US in criminal and civil law below in that article.

Seriously you can't be that dense. A certified attorney that "prosecutes" in either a criminal or civil case is called a prosecutor. Simple as that.

You don't understand what the first sentence is saying. I very much doubt you've ever heard of either the common law adversarial system or the civil law inquisitorial system, much less that you have any idea what they mean. Nothing in that sentence, that paragraph, or the entire article, states that there is such a thing as a "civil prosecutor" in the United States - it says the opposite.

Again, none of this matters because the only reason you raised the idea of "civil prosecutors" was to suggest that they are treated the same as criminal prosecutors for purposes of immunity. In fact, civil attorneys (there are no "civil prosecutors") are not treated the same, and in fact they have no immunity.

You are calling me dense? Remarkable . . .

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

No, a prosecuting attorney, also still called a prosecutor, for a civil case is not a CRIMINAL prosecutor for that case. Duh. He or she is a CIVIL prosecutor. It's not semantics but the proper label.

No, it's not. It's something you made up.

[Catriona]

I think I figured it out. HumblePie is looking at websites for the Civil Division of a County Prosecutors office, and equating the terms.

[emperus]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Wow.. do you know how stupid you sound right now. How can a "civil" attorney be subject to "malicious prosecution" if they aren't a prosecutor as you claim?

In comparison to how stupid you sound? Umm..

this is the definition of prosecute.

to bring legal action against for redress or punishment of a crime or violation of law

An attorney who brings a civil action can be guilty of malicious prosecution.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by Londo_Jowo

I have one question. Why have a malicious prosecution law if it can't be used?

It can be used, against any plaintiff or plaintiff's attorney who maliciously brings a frivolous civil case, and any non-immune person involving in bringing a criminal prosecution (a classic example would be a person falsely claiming rape, but it could also include a police officer who fabricates evidence, just not a prosecutor by operation of absolute immunity).

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by emperus

In comparison to how stupid you sound? Umm..

this is the definition of prosecute.



An attorney who brings a civil action can be guilty of malicious prosecution.

Violation of law. Yep. And some laws only have civil redress for them. To bring about that redress for violation of law requires civil action and a civil prosecutor.

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Wow.. do you know how stupid you sound right now. How can a "civil" attorney be subject to "malicious prosecution" if they aren't a prosecutor as you claim?

Dear lord are you being foolish. Here are the elements of malicious prosecution in my state, Minnesota:

(1) an action is brought without probable cause or reasonable belief that the plaintiff will ultimately prevail on the merits,
(2) the action is instituted and prosecuted with malicious intent, and
(3) the action is terminated in the defendant's favor

None of this requires that the plaintiff is a "prosecutor." There is no such thing as a civil prosecutor.

I am just aghast at you claiming other people look stupid in the context of this discussion. There are no words for this level of lack of self-awareness. If you care about the actual subject matter of this thread, just drop it.

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone

Dear lord are you being foolish. Here are the elements of malicious prosecution in my state, Minnesota:

(1) an action is brought without probable cause or reasonable belief that the plaintiff will ultimately prevail on the merits,
(2) the action is instituted and prosecuted with malicious intent, and
(3) the action is terminated in the defendant's favor

None of this requires that the plaintiff is a "prosecutor." There is no such thing as a civil prosecutor.

Sigh, because a plaintiff isn't always represented by an attorney in a civil case? Nor are all civil cases put into place for the purpose of prosecution. Divorce court for example is a civil court. There is no prosecution done in a divorce court. Thus there are no prosecutors in a divorce case. Only when there is prosecution being done and an attorney is representing the prosecution is that attorney called a prosecutor.

[emperus]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Violation of law. Yep. And some laws only have civil redress for them. To bring about that redress for violation of law requires civil action and a civil prosecutor.

SO, would you consider me a civil prosecutor?

[lotus503]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Sigh, because a plaintiff isn't always represented by an attorney in a civil case? Nor are all civil cases put into place for the purpose of prosecution. Divorce court for example is a civil court. There is no prosecution done in a divorce court. Thus there are no prosecutors in a divorce case. Only when there is prosecution being done and an attorney is representing the prosecution is that attorney called a prosecutor.

Edit not worth the time

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by emperus

SO, would you consider me a civil prosecutor?

Are you a legally accredited attorney, able to practice law, and does prosecution?

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Sigh, because a plaintiff isn't always represented by an attorney in a civil case? Nor are all civil cases put into place for the purpose of prosecution. Divorce court for example is a civil court. There is no prosecution done in a divorce court. Thus there are no prosecutors in a divorce case. Only when there is prosecution being done and an attorney is representing the prosecution is that attorney called a prosecutor.

All civil litigation involves a plaintiff bringing a claim, whether or not the plaintiff is represented. If they are represented, it's by an attorney, who is not a "prosecutor."

Divorce court is absolutely an adversarial proceeding and the parties often litigate issues of the distribution of property, custody of children and availability of spousal support. They are disputed litigations just as much as, say, a personal injury case or a civil rights case, and the plaintiff's attorney is "prosecuting" the case like any other form of civil litigation. This does not make him a prosecutor, because it is a civil case.

One useful way of thinking of this - a civil attorney represents a client, whether it's an individual or General Motors. A prosecutor represents the people, be it the people of the City of Topeka, the State of Kansas, or the United States. When I was in the Air Force I represented the United States, was a prosecutor, and had absolute immunity. Now that I am a civil attorney I represent private parties, am not a prosecutor, and have no immunity.

I will say, yet again, that this entire discussion is worthless because the only reason you brought up "civil prosecutors" was to claim they were treated the same way as criminal prosecutors for immunity purposes. You appear to have conceded that that was false, and now you're arguing just to argue.

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by Don Vito Corleone

All civil litigation involves a plaintiff bringing a claim, whether or not the plaintiff is represented. If they are represented, it's by an attorney, who is not a "prosecutor."

Divorce court is absolutely an adversarial proceeding and the parties often litigate issues of the distribution of property, custody of children and availability of spousal support. They are disputed litigations just as much as, say, a personal injury case or a civil rights case, and the plaintiff's attorney is "prosecuting" the case like any other form of civil litigation. This does not make him a prosecutor, because it is a civil case.

One useful way of thinking of this - a civil attorney represents a client, whether it's an individual or General Motors. A prosecutor represents the people, be it the people of the City of Topeka, the State of Kansas, or the United States.

I will say, yet again, that this entire discussion is worthless because the only reason you brought up "civil prosecutors" was to claim they were treated the same way as criminal prosecutors for immunity purposes. You appear to have conceded that that was false, and now you're arguing just to argue.

Where did I make that claim?

[emperus]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Are you a legally accredited attorney, able to practice law, and does prosecution?

What does this sentence even mean? What does "does prosecution" mean?

I'm in so in awe of your ability to Bullshit and continue to Bullshit. I think you've Bullshitted urself into believing you have any semblance of idea as to what your are talking about. I'm just awe struck.

[lotus503]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Where did I make that claim?

Its implied by the use of civil cases yesterday to argue your point.
thats without spending time diving into you train wreck of a post history.

[Darkman]

Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
Nelson tells potential jurors to return at 9 a.m. tomorrow for regular voir dire

Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
#GeorgeZimmerman trial: 40 jurors found for next phase of jury selection

Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
The list, as I hastily copied it down: B12 B29 B76 B7 B35 B37 B51 B86 E6 E40 E54 E73 M75 B61 B72 E22 E13 E28 K80 K95 P67

3:40 PM
Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
... G14 G29 G47 G63 G66 G81 H6 H7 H18 H29 H35 H81 H69 H86 UI5 I19 I 24 I33 I44. Again, that's just a rough list, will need to confirm.

Rene Stutzman @renestutzman
Court & attys @ #Zimmerman trial have cleared 40 jurors thru 1st round of questioning. More questions to follow.

What I got, but will need to double check: B12 B29 B76 B7 B35 B37 B51 B86 E6 E 40 E54 E73 M75 B61 B72 E22 E13 E28 K80 K95 P67 G14 G29 G47 G63 G66 G81 H6 H7 H18 H29 H35 H81 H69 H86 UI5 I19 I 24 I33 I44
by Jeff Weiner 3:37 PM

B12, 29, 76, 7, 35, 37, 51, 86, 61, 72, E6, 40, 54, 73, 22, 13, 28, M75, I5, 19, 24, 33, 44, G14, 29, 47, 63, 66, 81, H6, 7, 18, 29, 35, 31, 69, 86, K80, 95, and P67. Those are the ones I have.
by ProofsInTheGunshot 3:44 PM

--------

George Zimmerman trial: 40 jurors found for next phase of jury selection

Attorneys getting closer to goal of 40 potential jurors.

Before Nelson's announcement, the lawyers had just finished questioning potential juror I-44, a father of three who said he's highly skeptical of the media and its "negativity." He called himself a "sports nut."

He remembered various aspects of what happened -- that the shooting happened on a rainy night, that Trayvon wore a hoodie -- but said he doesn't have opinions on it, other than wondering when the "avalanche" of coverage will stop.

I-44 said the protests that followed the shooting inconvenienced him, but he doesn't have strong opinions on that either: "As Americans we have the right to peaceful protest."

Read more: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...993,full.story

-------

Done for today...

Nelson .. just now: "Court is in recess until tomorrow, 9 am

[emperus]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Where did I make that claim?

Here

Originally Posted by HumblePie

http://blog.euclidmanagers.com/home/malicious-prosecution-a-rare-but-powerful-counter-weapon-for-a-prevailing-defendant.html

[Don Vito Corleone]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Where did I make that claim?

First, you used the example of a Gibson Dunn attorney in a civil case as a case of a "prosecutor" being successfully sued for malicious prosecution, at http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...ostcount=55582

I responded that the fact that it was a civilian attorney made it irrelevant to the question of absolute prosecutorial immunity, because it did not involve a prosecutor, at http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...ostcount=55588

You responded that in fact civil cases have prosecutors, and cited to Wikipedia, at http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...ostcount=55592

I responded (quoting your post) to point out that even the Wikipedia article didn't support you, at http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...ostcount=55596

You then got into your whole "some cases have civil prosecutors" rap at http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...ostcount=55600

[Darkman]

Rene Stutzman @renestutzman
Angela Corey steps in front of the c-room rail & directs c-house personnel how to line up chairs for jurors tomorrow.

[Darkman]

Jeff Weiner @JeffWeinerOS
Zimmerman trial: Pool of 40 prospective jurors chosen | List: http://bit.ly/11JPM4b

George Zimmerman trial: Pool of 40 prospective jurors chosen

By Jeff Weiner and Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel
5:09 p.m. EDT, June 18, 2013

------

B-12: A middle-aged white woman who works the graveyard shift. She likes the crime-forensics show CSI and said she'd heard Zimmerman was following Trayvon.

B-29: A Hispanic nurse on an Alzheimer's ward who has seven children and lived in Chicago at time of shooting.

B-76: A white middle-aged woman who said Zimmerman had an "altercation with the young man. There was a struggle and the gun went off."

B-35: A middle-aged black man who owns a vending business. He was critical of the Rev. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, and says this case is not racial.

B-37: A middle-aged white woman who works for a chiropractor and has many pets. She described protests in Sanford as "rioting."

B-51: A retired white woman from Oviedo who has a dog and 20-year-old cat. She knew a good deal about the case, but said "I'm not rigid in my thinking."

B-86: A middle-aged white woman who works at a middle school. She said if Trayvon had not been "expelled" from school in Dade County — he was actually suspended — "this could have been prevented."

E-6: A young white woman and mother who used to work in financial services. She used this case as an example to her adolescent children, warning them to not go out at night.

E-40: A white woman in her 60s who lived in Iowa at the time of the shooting. She heard national news reports and recalls the shooting was in a gated community and a teenager was killed.

E-54: A middle-aged white man with a teenage stepson who wears hoodies. He recalled seeing photos of Zimmerman's head and face that show injuries.

E-73: A middle-aged white woman active in Sanford's arts community, who is raising her late brother's 15- and 18-year-old children. The media interjected race in this case, she said.

M-75: A young African-American woman who says many of her friends have opinions on the case, but she doesn't.

B-61: A young white woman who remembered that "after the protesters, it seemed to turn more into a racial issue...I don't think it's a racial issue."

B-72: A young man who does maintenance at a school and competes in arm wrestling tournaments. He said he avoids the news because he does not want to be "brainwashed."

E-22: A middle-aged African-American woman who said that after the shooting Sanford police should have booked Zimmerman and asked him more questions.

E-13: A young white woman who goes to college and works two jobs. She heard the shooting was a "racial thing."

E-28: A middle-aged white woman who works as a nurse. She knew little about the case and has no opinion about Zimmerman's guilt.

K-80: A middle-aged white woman with children who has not followed the case. She considers the "racial undertones" in the case "disturbing."

K-95: A middle-aged woman who's a full-time student and "IT geek" with two children. She was critical of protests calling for Zimmerman's arrest.

P-67: A native of Mexico who seemed eager to serve on the jury, describing it as a civic duty. "Some people think it is a racist thing," he said of the shooting.

G-14: A middle-aged white woman. "I remember a lot of anger, a lot of people upset that Mr. Zimmerman was not arrested immediately."

G-29: A young black woman who has lived in Seminole County eight months. "There is a lot of racial tension built up," she said, but she "stayed away from it."

G-47: A young white man who works as assistant manager at restaurant. Zimmerman appears to be "stuck in the worst situation" possible, he said.

G-63: A young, unemployed man who described himself as "mixed race." He knew few details about the case but denounced stereotyping and said people sometimes interject race into cases.

G-66: A retired white woman who cares for her toddler grandson and moved to Central Florida in 2011. When she saw photos of Zimmerman's injuries, "I felt sorry for him."

G-81: A tall black man who lives less than a half mile from the scene of the shooting. There is a racial divide in Sanford, he said, but the media has misportrayed the city.

H-6: A young white man who heard the phone call Zimmerman made to police before the shooting. "He sounded like he was concerned for his neighborhood."

H-7: A red-haired man about age 50 in a business suit who recalled "a big brouhaha in Sanford," described protesters as "a nuisance" and said, "I still don't know why it became a high profile case."

H-18: A handsome, muscled, dark-skinned man in his 20s with an accent who's a mechanic, owns his shop with a partner and moved here from Kuwait. He said he avoids discussing certain topics. "When it's politics, religion or race, I just don't get involved."

H-29: A white-haired man who described national civil rights leaders who led protests in Sanford "a little circus come to town." It was "negative for the city," he said. "That honestly turned me off."

H-35: A young woman who said she knows little about the case. She "liked" a photo of Trayvon on Facebook. Needs to move by the end of June, which she said would be a hardship.

H-81: He described the shooting as an "incident" between Zimmerman and Trayvon, and "Mr. Martin ended up dead." H-81 called the shooting a "very tragic situation." He has two pending civil cases before Nelson.

H-69: A five-months-pregnant woman who said she saw news about the case on television at work. She mentioned several times that she recalled seeing pictures of Trayvon as "a young child" in the media.

H-86: A young white woman, who said she knows almost nothing about the case. H-86 says she keeps up with current events, but "certain cases and things I don't follow."

I-5: A middle-aged African American man, he said he heard self-defense was involved with the case, at one point referring to Zimmerman as "the gentleman that was defending himself."

I-19: A young white woman identified as I-19, who said she hasn't followed the case and knows only the basic details: "I don't watch the news, I don't read the news," she said.

I-24: An older white woman who said she followed the case at first, but then "I just kinda tuned out." Describe the case as "a young man lost his life and another man is fighting for his life."

I-33: Older white man, who said "the more I heard, the less I wanted to hear." Heard there was a 911 call involved in the case, and "some controversy as to who was doing the screaming" heard in it.

I-44: A father of three who said he's highly skeptical of the media and its "negativity." He called himself a "sports nut."

B-7: A middle-aged white man who listens to NPR. He remembered when Florida implemented its "stand your ground" law and the debate about whether it was needed.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/...601,full.story