Another way Lincoln was a tyrant.

[Anarchist420]

Originally Posted by werepossum

Slavery directly goes against our Constitution's preamble - if all men are created equal then obviously some of them cannot be born as property - and it's a blot on our national character that a nation founded on such lofty principles took a hundred years to do more than pay lip service to its own ideals and then another hundred years to really begin implementing it at a government level.

LOL. The Constitution protected slavery and the Preamble says nothing about all men being created equal.

Originally Posted by werepossum

First, I see nothing in the Constitution that covers secession, so once you're in you're in for the life of the union.

Nothing in it says Secession is illegal either and the States created the union. If the States didn't exist, then there could be no union.

[cwjerome]

Originally Posted by Anarchist420

LOL. The Constitution protected slavery and the Preamble says nothing about all men being created equal.

Nothing in it says Secession is illegal either and the States created the union. If the States didn't exist, then there could be no union.

The Constitution was somewhat neutral on slavery, and only "protected" in the sense that it did not ban it... although it did specifically ban the importation of slaves. The enumeration clause and service and labor clause were obviously added to appease southern states at the Constitutional Convention so as to get the Constitution ratified. Which at the time seemed like an appropriate compromise since slavery was indeed dying out, until the unfortunate expansion and profitability of cotton occurred later on, making slavery viable once again.

Nothing in the Constitution said secession was legal either, so I'm not even sure why you bring that up.

Just get over your silly phase already... the AofC was a joke, the Confederacy was a disastrous joke, and anarcho-utopian fantasies are a joke that has no chance of ever coming close to reality. Ever. Why don't you pursue interests and goals that are helpful and actually have a chance in reality?

[Anarchist420]

Originally Posted by cwjerome

Just get over your silly phase already... the AofC was a joke, the Confederacy was a disastrous joke, and anarcho-utopian fantasies are a joke that has no chance of ever coming close to reality. Ever. Why don't you pursue interests and goals that are helpful and actually have a chance in reality?

The Articles of Confederation and the CSA were not a "joke".
Confederalism will return one day so I'll never give up on trying to restore it.

[cwjerome]

Originally Posted by Anarchist420

The Articles of Confederation and the CSA were not a "joke".
Confederalism will return one day so I'll never give up on trying to restore it.

The CSA was the worst joke in American history, one that cost 500,000 lives, simply so they could wallow in racial superiority while enslaving a people without being called out on it. You cannot be dumb enough to believe they cared about states' rights, while vigorously trying to enforce laws like the Fugitive Slave Act, and others? What about the Northern states' rights not to be forced to follow a national law they vehemently, morally oppose? Oh that's right, the South only gave a flying fuck about states rights when it served them. They actually believed in states rights so much they wrote slavery into their constitution, preventing the confederate states from deciding on their own, that's how much they loved states' rights

LOL, the South was 5% more "confederacy" than the North considering their constitution was 95% the same as the original. And oh, let's not forget the Confederacy was that bastion of liberty, with conscription even before the North had it, political thugery and jailings, and democratic suppression that was equal to anything happening in the North. Oh, and that liberty-loving institution called slavery... awesome place that CSA was.

[werepossum]

Originally Posted by Anarchist420

LOL. The Constitution protected slavery and the Preamble says nothing about all men being created equal.

Nothing in it says Secession is illegal either and the States created the union. If the States didn't exist, then there could be no union.

My bad, Declaration of Independence, not preamble - our founding document. As CWJerome states, the Constitution specifically ended the importation of slaves; the general thought at the time was that slavery was on its way out. Unfortunately people failed to recognize that although slavery is a very poor system of wealth production it's an excellent system for wealth concentration, and coupled with very cheap land could make some people very wealthy and thus very powerful.

Confederation as an idea will no doubt return, but not in governance of America. The system is simply too limited for a modern state, and any state large enough to need confederation will be large enough to reject it as producing too little central power; it didn't work for a modern nation at the time and it certain't won't work in the future, as the trend is always concentration of power. That and its connotations of slavery from the Civil War-era Confederacy of slave-holding secessionist states will be enough to keep it from ever returning. Where one might conceivably see a future confederation is in discontinuous and/or heterogeneous states banding together for mutual advantage and defense, but even then organizations of limited scope such as NATO tend to fill that void, and in things like the Russian Federation where existing imposed bonds are being loosened. American states simply aren't different enough to benefit from federation as opposed to union as a republic.

[cwjerome]

Originally Posted by werepossum

Confederation as an idea will no doubt return, but not in governance of America.

I see it happening in two scenarios. One, a world confederation sometime in the distant future. Two, a more "national" confederation of regional "powers" after an Armageddon-like event.

In other words, not something I'll bother thinking about.

[piasabird]

It is not seccession when the south attacked the North. It was the goal of the south to take over the North.