Sorry for my absence. Even though I subscribed to this thread, for some reason the forum software didn't email me to notify of new posts, so I thought the thread had quieted down. I'll try to catch up now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phynaz
You mean it produces the result you expect, which doesn't mean it produces the correct result.
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Actually, the tool reliably produces the correct result in all known cases.
Of course, it is up to your interpretation of what you consider the correct result. It seems that the entire disagreement is wrapped around semantics.
Let us review what has already been discussed in this thread:
1. It is impossible for a tool such as TrimCheck, to determine, with 100% certainty, whether TRIM is working (for any reasonable definition of the word).
I agree with this point.
2. TrimCheck's purpose is to attempt to automate the hex editor method described in
this AnandTech article.
Whether you consider the described method reliable or not, this point is not subjective.
3. A tool that produces the correct result in 95% of cases is still useful, and "better than nothing" (assuming its users are aware of possible faults).
I think disagreeing with this point is up to personal principles, and arguing about it is not constructive.
4. Certain patterns of disk activities (file creation and deletion, then reading disk data from certain logical sectors) allow observing the TRIM effect, with some degree of reliability.
This point is important: TRIM activity is not completely random. In most cases, it in predictable, and the reliability can be quantified.
5. Through experimentation and incremental improvement, it is possible to develop a set of disk activity patterns that have incrementally higher reliability in observing the effects of TRIM, for the tested system configurations.
Again, I don't consider this subjective.
6. The tool's description may have created a false impression in this thread, in that it either works in a way that it actually doesn't, or that it attempts to accomplish something else than what it actually does.
For example, at the beginning of this post I've used the "correct result" term - with the underlying meaning that it performs a disk access pattern, and displays a result: a few hex bytes, and a conclusion.
Please take special note of the conclusion's wording: it will read either "TRIM appears to be NOT WORKING" or "TRIM appears to be WORKING". The key point here is "appears" - the wording makes no intention to hint at certainty. This has always been so from the first program version.
To stress it out: I have never stated that the conclusion displayed by the program is a factual guaranteed representation whether TRIM is working or not. The conclusion is correct in the meaning that the program works exactly as designed: to follow an algorithm, which attempts to make a best effort of determining whether TRIM is working.
Considering the above, I'm not sure what's your beef with TrimCheck. If you think the documentation should be improved to better describe its workings and purpose, I'd gladly accept some constructive tips.
As for the rest of your post:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phynaz
Even if it did produce the "correct" result, correlation <> causation.
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Correct. See above. In most cases, the result is a causation of the disk access patterns issued, however this is not guaranteed. False negatives are a possibility, and to a lesser extent, false positives as well (for example, if some kind of a resident disk wiper program is running).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phynaz
Again, as has been stated by quite a few others here: Without access to the low level information about the drive - which you cannot get from Windows - you have no way of telling if TRIM is working or not.
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Correct - if you want 100% certainty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phynaz
Sorry, but your tool doesn't work because it CAN'T work.
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I conjecture that your statement is based on a misconception of the tool's purpose. Hopefully that matter is clarified now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phynaz
I know it's difficult to be shown to be incorrect when you have put a lot of effort into something. It's probably best to treat it as a learning experience.
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Thank you for the sympathy, though TrimCheck is just a tool I've done in a few hours - I don't intend to get famous off it or spend a lot of time on it in the future. In fact, I've probably learned more from writing a constructive answer to your post
Quote:
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Originally Posted by taltamir
It is not better then nothing
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I will have to disagree with you here, based on anecdotal evidence. A few people have gotten a negative result with TrimCheck, and upon investigating the cause, have discovered that there was actually a reason (incompatible software / incorrect drivers) that resulted in TRIM actually not working (said software had a known issue with TRIM, or the drivers did not support TRIM). Upon resolving the issue, TrimCheck began returning positive results. I consider this a win for the program, so I personally don't consider it worse than nothing
