Consumer Reports: "hybrids offer the best value in buying a new car"

[MagickMan]

Originally Posted by Ferzerp

Well, the best "value" has always driven like crap. The best value is always econoboxes, you know?

They're worse than that, they're so unbalanced they wallow like barges.

[bigi]

Originally Posted by MaxFusion16

you are forgetting resale value, hybrids depreciate less.

This has little effect, if any, defending hybrid purchase.

Hybrids are a waste of money and technology. You can buy 10 y.old car and drive it longer. 10 y. old hybrid will require new battery in addition to 'normal' wear/maintenance items.

[deadken]

Originally Posted by TheAdvocate

No idea why any family in the 4 door sedan market would buy anything other than one of these 3 (right now):

'12/'13 Camry XLE hybrid
'13 Fusion Hybrid
'13 VW Passat TDI

Anything else would be placing style over practicality...

It's as simple as personal preference.

Let me ask you, when you first met your wife / GF, did you consider her looks or practicality? How many years have you been in a relationship with her? Hmmm, it could be that you made that initial choice on 'styling', and stuck with it.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by HeXen

After that 10yr battery warranty expires, hold on to your purse.

The average vehicle age in the United States is only 10 years. The average length of ownership in the US is not even 5 years.

For the vast majority of people, your argument is a moot point.

[LTC8K6]

I think the question might be:

How much are buyers going to be willing to pay for a used hybrid vehicle?

Let's say the battery is already 5 years in service. Is the possible battery replacement a deterrent? Does it lower the value?

A 5 year old Fusion vs a 5 year old Fusion Hybrid, for example. Both roughly the same mileage and trim levels.

How does the hybrid's battery fit in with the decision of which one to buy?

[vi edit]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

A 5 year old Fusion vs a 5 year old Fusion Hybrid, for example. Both roughly the same mileage and trim levels. How does the hybrid's battery fit in with the decision of which one to buy?

I think it just really comes down to luck, driving habits, and cost of gas at the time. Logic would say that paying a several thousand dollar premium for used hybrid and then adding in the risk of another multi-thousand dollar battery replacement is a brain dead idea.

But, if the battery system (as some prius have shown) can last up to 200k miles and you drive the ever loving crap out of the thing with basic maintenance *and* the price of gas is $4+ a gallon then you might come out ahead. That's a lot of "if's".

Thing with hybrids is that most people aren't buying them to save on money. There are a lot of people that simply want to use less gas even if the overall cost is similar. Or just have something different. And hybrids or EV's are appealing options to those buyers.

[JTsyo]

Originally Posted by Jumpem

I'm not interested until something useful and AWD, such as a Forester hybrid is available.

My Escape hybrid was 4WD, sadly they don't make escape hybrids anymore. I don't think the C-MAX comes in 4WD.

[Ferzerp]

Originally Posted by MagickMan

They're worse than that, they're so unbalanced they wallow like barges.

So, you're saying they're as bad as pre-2011 LX platform cars

[HeXen]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The average vehicle age in the United States is only 10 years. The average length of ownership in the US is not even 5 years.

For the vast majority of people, your argument is a moot point.

reading fail. I was talking about the batteries for hybrids, do you realize how expensive they are? They often only have a 10yr warranty. I'm saying if you buy a used one and have to spend some $5K-$7k on new batteries.....

[LTC8K6]

The regular cars are getting closer. The new Sentra is EPA rated at 30mpg in city driving and starts at $16K.

[MaxFusion16]

Originally Posted by HeXen

reading fail. I was talking about the batteries for hybrids, do you realize how expensive they are? They often only have a 10yr warranty. I'm saying if you buy a used one and have to spend some $5K-$7k on new batteries.....

uh...this thread is about hybrids being the best value when buying NEW

battery replacement costs after 10 years is irrelevant for the majority of new car buyers.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by HeXen

reading fail. I was talking about the batteries for hybrids, do you realize how expensive they are? They often only have a 10yr warranty. I'm saying if you buy a used one and have to spend some $5K-$7k on new batteries.....

What I am saying is that the vast majority of owners who buy used will fall into a time period where the battery is still covered by the warranty.

If I buy a three year old Prius, I'm not going to ever worry about the battery because I don't normally keep cars for more than 3-5 years - just like the vast majority of Americans. Hell, assuming the car gets sold every three years, the 4th owner would still have 1 year left on the original warranty.

With that said - you cannot say with certainty that the battery will even need to be replaced after 10 years. The vast majority of the first generation Toyota hybrids are still running strong, 10+ years into their life.

Also - you are wildly inflating the cost of replacing the batteries: http://autos.aol.com/article/toyota-prius-reliability/

Fisher says he recalls rumors about what it might cost to replace the Prius battery if that was required, with estimates as high as $10,000. But, right now, if the battery on that '02 Prius did need to be replaced, it would cost between $2,200 and $2,600 at a Toyota dealership.

"Except, it's doubtful that anyone would buy a brand-new hybrid battery for an eight-year-old vehicle," observes Fisher. "They would be most likely to go to a salvage yard, and find one on a low-mileage Prius, just like you would if you were looking to replace an engine or a transmission on any older car."

Consumer Reports found many such Prius batteries available at salvage yards in the $500 range.

[LTC8K6]

What shape is a salvage yard battery likely to be in, though? How long has it sat without being taken care of/charged/checked?

What happens to these batteries when they sit for months in an uncontrolled environment?

Are the batteries from the Toyota dealer new or refurbished?

[LTC8K6]

Tesla apparently had/has some batteries that become bricks if they are completely discharged.

http://jalopnik.com/5887265/tesla-mo...design-problem

Does this happen to hybrid batteries that sit in a salvage yard?

[KentState]

Originally Posted by TheAdvocate

No idea why any family in the 4 door sedan market would buy anything other than one of these 3 (right now):

'12/'13 Camry XLE hybrid
'13 Fusion Hybrid
'13 VW Passat TDI

Anything else would be placing style over practicality. I've driven all 3, and aside from not liking the interior aesthetics in the Fusion, they're all very good cars. The MPG gains on this generation are ridiculous, especially given the size/utility of these cars. The VW suffers from a history of sketchy reliability, but has a lot of appeal on a test drive.

Driven all three and others in the class and would not buy a single one of them. Maybe the Fusion 2.0T would be in consideration if the price was right.

[Drako]

Wow, people actually use Consumer Reports to make a car buying decision?

[KentState]

Originally Posted by Drako

Wow, people actually use Consumer Reports to make a car buying decision?

I always pick a new car up when I'm out buying a blender and washing machine.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

What shape is a salvage yard battery likely to be in, though? How long has it sat without being taken care of/charged/checked?

What happens to these batteries when they sit for months in an uncontrolled environment?

Are the batteries from the Toyota dealer new or refurbished?

The battery can sit for quite a while before it is fully discharged - the Prius has a switch which disconnects the battery entirely to prevent most parasitic discharge (anytime the vehicle is powered off).

Most really don't just sit there since they're worth a pretty penny. Most salvage yards will take the battery out and sell it to a remanufacturer, who then tests the battery, repairs any damaged cells, and resells the unit. If it's totally shot, it's still worth a few hundred bucks for it's materials alone.....

Concerning bricking - any battery will do this. It is worth noting that the Tesla batteries in question are Lithium Ion batteries, which are much more easily damaged in the event of a full discharge. The battery packs in a standard Prius and on most hybrids are nickel metal hydride - full discharge will damage the total available capacity for charge, but not to the full extent that a Li-On battery will be.

[CraigRT]

Originally Posted by TheAdvocate

No idea why any family in the 4 door sedan market would buy anything other than one of these 3 (right now):

'12/'13 Camry XLE hybrid
'13 Fusion Hybrid
'13 VW Passat TDI

Anything else would be placing style over practicality. I've driven all 3, and aside from not liking the interior aesthetics in the Fusion, they're all very good cars. The MPG gains on this generation are ridiculous, especially given the size/utility of these cars. The VW suffers from a history of sketchy reliability, but has a lot of appeal on a test drive.

I cannot tell you how little I want any of those cars. It's just not for everyone.
If I were to take a new midsize sedan, it would without a doubt be a V6 Accord or Altima.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The battery can sit for quite a while before it is fully discharged - the Prius has a switch which disconnects the battery entirely to prevent most parasitic discharge (anytime the vehicle is powered off).

Most really don't just sit there since they're worth a pretty penny. Most salvage yards will take the battery out and sell it to a remanufacturer, who then tests the battery, repairs any damaged cells, and resells the unit. If it's totally shot, it's still worth a few hundred bucks for it's materials alone.....

Concerning bricking - any battery will do this. It is worth noting that the Tesla batteries in question are Lithium Ion batteries, which are much more easily damaged in the event of a full discharge. The battery packs in a standard Prius and on most hybrids are nickel metal hydride - full discharge will damage the total available capacity for charge, but not to the full extent that a Li-On battery will be.

Well sure, you and I know that, but does the average Joe?

I probably wouldn't want a 5 year old battery, even though I know it's probably perfectly fine for many more years. I definitely don't want anything from a salvage yard.

I've been to salvage yards...

I think with a hybrid, I would only want a new one, unless it's a classic like an Insight, which has a cool factor that nothing else seems to have.

[KentState]

Originally Posted by CraigRT

I cannot tell you how little I want any of those cars. It's just not for everyone.
If I were to take a new midsize sedan, it would without a doubt be a V6 Accord or Altima.

Have you personally compared the '13 Accord and Altima? The wife and I are pretty much set on the V6 Accord, but the Altima is our next favorite.

[CraigRT]

Originally Posted by KentState

Have you personally compared the '13 Accord and Altima? The wife and I are pretty much set on the V6 Accord, but the Altima is our next favorite.

I have only sat in them each at the dealers, but I like both.
I was really impressed with the Altima, and the new Accord is awesome as well. Huge step up for Honda here, I think.

[KentState]

Originally Posted by CraigRT

I have only sat in them each at the dealers, but I like both.
I was really impressed with the Altima, and the new Accord is awesome as well. Huge step up for Honda here, I think.

We drove the Accord V6 this weekend, but it's been a few months since we tested the out Altima. What's crazy is the Accord will do the 1/4 in 14.1.

[Pariah]

Originally Posted by CraigRT

I cannot tell you how little I want any of those cars. It's just not for everyone.
If I were to take a new midsize sedan, it would without a doubt be a V6 Accord or Altima.

If you're a car person, of course you wouldn't want any of those. Best value in any line of products is never the one an enthusiast in that area would want. The best value winners are appliances that cover the basics and pretty much nothing else. They're cheap because they aren't designed to do anything besides what is required. That rarely describes anything fun or interesting. In the car world that would mean get you from point a to point b at the speed limit with some usable cargo space.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by KentState

We drove the Accord V6 this weekend, but it's been a few months since we tested the out Altima. What's crazy is the Accord will do the 1/4 in 14.1.

The coupe 6M is 14.0/103mph...