What's a good powerline network adapter? [see 3rd post]

[wansurfer]

[Original title was "What chips are in a TRENDnet TPL-307E powerline adapter?"]

Hi,

I was doing some research on some of the different Ethernet to powerline network adapters. However, I have found very little information about what chip or chipsets are used in these devices. What is in a TRENDnet TPL-307E? Where can I get more info about what chips are in other adapters?

Part of the reason I am interested in the chips is that I read some information about new chips that perform better but I have not found any specific information about what devices have or will have those chips. Of course, the advertisements on retail websites and information on the manufacturer's websites don't mention what is inside their devices.

[wansurfer]

In case anybody is wondering.. I contacted the TRENDnet Helpdesk and was told the chip set in the TPL-307E is the Atheros AR6405.

After researching the product I'm not sure I want it. Looks like the QoS feature isn't configurable and I may not be able to switch it off. Plus I can't tell if the device can filter frequencies that may interfere with the network connection. It would be annoying if it comes with a pass-through outlet but I can't plug a lot of things in to it because they may interfere with the network connection.

[wansurfer]

I've been looking at features but still can't find what I want. Any recommendations?

What I'm looking for:

IEEE 1901 and HomePlug compatibility
200Mbps is acceptable but 1Gbps is better
passthrough outlet is nice but not required
ability to work with some interference is important especially if the adapter has a passthrough outlet
( there's a Zyxel adapter that has a chip for that^ )
configurable QoS and/or the ability to switch it off
I don't want to spend a lot in case this doesn't work out, ~$50 USD is preferred

I checked the circuit breakers for my home and they won't be a problem.

I wish there was an electronics database where all the details about an electronic product could be entered and users could search it for what they want. Newegg's system isn't bad. One of the better ones that I've seen but I wish it was better.

[VirtualLarry]

Originally Posted by wansurfer

I wish there was an electronics database where all the details about an electronic product could be entered and users could search it for what they want. Newegg's system isn't bad. One of the better ones that I've seen but I wish it was better.

FCC database?

[wansurfer]

I think I've used some FCC databases a couple times but I doubt they would keep track of a product's compatibility with the HomePlug standard. [leaves AnandTech forums, does some Googling, comes back] Hehe, which FCC database? I tried searching for TPL-307E here but I didn't find anything. I found a couple articles about HomePlug.

[JackMDS]

Powerline adapters are already ten years on the market and still very unpopular.

Why? Because in most cases their performance su*ks, and they always lag (and always will) few generation behind regular Ethernet networking.

As the name "hints" powerline network uses the local powerline wiring.

Given what this lines are used for they are like "cancer" to any ride-on signal that carries data.

If you do not have another options, you can try, who knows may be you will be lucky.

However, order only if the vendors offers a liberal return policy under No question asks and No money lost.

P.S. The reason that Powerline does not disappear is because the industry want to keep it alive until the age of networked appliances will arrive.

Monitoring and controling (network wise) slow appliances like frigde, stove, etc., through the network will not be a problem because "Speed" is Not the issue in such activity.

BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.

[JoeMcJoe]

I use several of the Zyxel 500 Mbps powerline networking devices, within my home and to an external building where installing Ethernet would take a lot of time.
They work well, but as with wireless speed performance claims, don't believe the high numbers that they advertise.

I get real speeds of a 50 to 100 Mbps, depends on the distance of the wiring. Better than wireless, but worse than wired Ethernet.
1Gbps will never happens.
See charts and reviews here: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwa...ne-charts/view

There is less danger from powerline network than from using a microwave/toaster/light/etc..

[wansurfer]

Hi JoeMcJoe,

Earlier I was researching some of the Zyxel products- the PLA407 and PLA401v3. The user manual for one (or both?) of those specifically mentions that the device has a chip that helps filter out disruptive frequencies to improve the connection and there was no mention of other electrical devices that shouldn't be used on the same wiring circuit as the powerline network adapter. That was unlike what I found in the manual for the TRENDnet TPL-307E. Though I think the Zyxel's weren't compliant with IEEE 1901. Not that I really know how much that matters but that seems to be a new standard and I was hoping to find something that would work well and be compliant with that. Though, in the end, I may not be able to get everything I want for the price I want.

There was something odd that I noticed about the Zyxels. While reading the user's manual there was a section about using the Mac OS X version of the utility to configure QoS for the adapter but there was no mention of doing that with the Windows version of the utility. I don't have any Macs so how do I configure QoS?

Thanks for the link. I think I already have that bookmarked. I remember the Netgear adapter was the best. There was a FAQ on Netgear's site that explained why the specs of the adapters seem so exaggerated and what they really mean. Even after reading that I see that they still don't perform perfectly. Though it doesn't inspire confidence in the product when it says 500Mbps for connections on the powerline but the adapter itself has only a 100Mbps RJ45 port.



JackMDS,

Currently my options are limited because the owners of the home I live in think I'll mess up something if I run cables like Cat5e across the ceiling and down through the walls but I'm slowly wearing them down until I can persuade them to think otherwise. [Ok, I admit it, I live at home with my parents.] Plus, this could be very helpful to my cousin who may be interested in using a NAS to backup her data but the only safe place she has to put the NAS is in large walk-in concrete safe that has one power outlet. Though I acknowledge that doing backups to a NAS though a powerline network adapter may not be so good. Maybe since she recently bought a new residential router a better wireless connection can be made now.

The future of appliances.. I expect a lot of those will still have a use for AC but electronics need DC and always have some kind of AC to DC converter. I've noticed USB ports are being added to some AC outlets or a person can buy an adapter now. I wonder if someday USB ports will be commonly found on all outlets, will be used to power most of our home electronics, and utilizing the same port for data will be easy. Though I'm wondering how all the USB ports could be networked and I expect some kind of new USB standard would be used.

We have a large electrical substation a few miles from out home. I've heard it is one of the larger ones in the state. Or, maybe it is one of the larger ones in the country. I can't remember. So, ya, I've read and heard stuff about high voltage powerlines. Personally, I'm not worried about them but constantly hearing them crackle could get annoying. Due to a lot of power poles and towers in our area supporting lines that converge on the substation and this being a somewhat rural farming area it is not uncommon for farmers to have power lines crossing their fields and they're not happy with needing to move irrigation and other farm equipment around them.

[wansurfer]

Ok, I finally figured out that HomePlug AV means the adapter is compliant with IEEE 1901. I was reading the specs for a lot of the powerline network adapters (technically I guess they are bridges?) and not seeing IEEE 1901. I thought that maybe that standard wasn't commonly supported yet but then I found a web page at HomePlug.org that explains what HomePlug AV means. That may have been explained to me earlier someplace else like in some reviews but the info didn't stick in my brain.

Earlier I stated that the Windows version of the utility for configuring the adapters wouldn't let me configure QoS. However, I rechecked the user's manual for the ZyXEL PLA-407 and found that in the Windows utility in the Advanced menu I can configure QoS in a generalized way. I guess it is more user friendly for those who don't know the technical details.

I contacted Newegg about sending back the unopened box from them that contains the TRENDnet TPL-307E2KIT. I asked about refusing delivery. They told me I had to refuse it face to face with the delivery person for that to work. Our delivery person has never delivered anything to us and waited for us to have the option to refuse delivery. They drop it off at the door or mailbox and they're gone.

[wansurfer]

When I bought the TPL-307E2KIT I think I used PayPal and they have something for paying return shipping right now so I guess if I can't refuse delivery then maybe PayPal will pay for the return shipping.

I bought a ZyXEL PLA-407 two adapter startup kit from Amazon for $52. I think there was a similar deal at Newegg but that passed and I'm not sure why Amazon's price is still so low. Normally only one of those adapters sells for about $40. Honestly, I think $52 for two that are rated at 200Mbps is a bit too much but I've wanted to try using this for a while.

[JoeMcJoe]

You don't need to configure anything with the adapters, the Zyxel software really just displays the network speeds to the devices. They have buttons on the side to configure the paired security codes.

I have only used the Belkin and Zyxel 500 Mbps devices. I use the Netgear software, it works on Zyxel devices too, as it looks like all the manufacturers use the same internal chipset. With the older 200 Mbps devices, not sure what speeds you'll get, but should be similar.
The Zyxel 500 Mbps devices have gigabit ports, one device I have has a 4 port gigabit switch.

The Zyxel 200 Mbps devices might be compatible with the TPlink 200 Mbps devices, as the first gen 500 Mbps were.

[bbhaag]

I just got the Western Digital Powerline kit for Christmas and so far it works really well for what I use it for. Mostly streaming SD and HD movies and TV shows from my computer upstairs to our BD player in the livingroom downstairs. The kids also use Netflix to watch cartoons.

It comes with a utility program that is a little buggy on Win8 but seems to work. According to the utility software I'm connected at 175Mbps which is more than enough for what I use it for. The box it rated for 200 but lets face it you never see the advertised speeds except in the lab under perfect conditions. Our home was built in '46 but the wiring was redone in the early '90's.

Overall I'm really happy with it. I was using the wireless adaptor in the BD player and it sucked. It was constantly dropping and disconnecting from the network but now with the WD wired adaptor it just works.

[kmmatney]

I've been using a WD power line adapter for 2 years. It worked great for a month or two, and then I started having serious performance issues. My goal was to connect several devices in my family room to my router in the basement, but the outlet I was suing in the basement had intermittent performance issues. I tried using a filter on my main house electrical panel, etc...

Luckily, my house is networked with LAN cables (although the family outlet isn't connected for some reason) so I was able to move the powerline adapter from my basement to an outlet in my den, near a working LAN connection. It's been working fine now, but it only has to go about 15 feet. I should have just ran a LAN cable under the carpet from my den to the family room, but things work now so I'm happy. Just goes to show that these powerline adapters can be flaky, for reasons beyond your control. I don't think it matters all that much what brand you get. My WD adapters have been working fine for over a year now, powering a WD live player, Blue Ray player, and my TV.

[PowerEngineer]

Originally Posted by JackMDS

BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.

That seems a bit over the top, Jack. The electromagnetic fields from nearby wiring and devices in your home will generally contribute more than "nearby" power lines.

For what it's worth, I resorted to powerline carrier two and a half years ago and (being lucky) it's worked great for me (a non-gamer). Here's what I'm using:

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Theate...AVB1004-100NAS

Good luck.

[JackMDS]

Originally Posted by PowerEngineer

That seems a bit over the top, Jack. The electromagnetic fields from nearby wiring and devices in your home will generally contribute more than "nearby" power lines.

Originally Posted by JackMDS

BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.

Realy High Voltage.

Home =110VAC

High Voltage Powerlines = 100kVAC and more, that is 1000 and more over than Home power.

http://www.icnirp.org/PubEMF.htm

http://www.ehib.org/emf/general.html

[Golgatha]

Originally Posted by JoeMcJoe

I use several of the Zyxel 500 Mbps powerline networking devices, within my home and to an external building where installing Ethernet would take a lot of time.
They work well, but as with wireless speed performance claims, don't believe the high numbers that they advertise.

I get real speeds of a 50 to 100 Mbps, depends on the distance of the wiring. Better than wireless, but worse than wired Ethernet.
1Gbps will never happens.
See charts and reviews here: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwa...ne-charts/view

There is less danger from powerline network than from using a microwave/toaster/light/etc..

I use the same adapters and have had about the same experience. My throughput is around 70 Mbps and it seems to have enough bandwidth to stream Bluray rips just fine, so it's good for my purpose.

[JackMDS]

It is Not a matter of general good and general Bad.

In general.

Most of the discussion on Both Wireless and Powerline are concerning uses that those thingies did not really designed for.

Wireless 802.11 was initially designed for laptops to be used in the same room to avoid constant dragging of wires. To deploy it in a wider area it was designed to work with Access Points connected via wires to a main Router.

Powerline is designed for the future working of Smart appliances.

Wireless was not designed to cover Big Houses because your Landlord/Mom/wife etc. do not want one to install wires.

Powerline was not design to be a conduit of high level real computing data.

That does not mean that they can not be used for other type of environment.

It just means be aware and use whatever suits your specific purpose in Your Specific environment, rather than trying to claim some "silly" overall superiority of one piece of plastic/silicone over the other.

[wansurfer]

In case anybody is interested Newegg is selling a pair of the ZyXEL PLA407's for $40 right now. You need to use promo code EMCNJNB67. About a week ago I bought a pair from a seller on Amazon for $52 and I'm kinda annoyed with myself right now. Though what I paid isn't so bad compared to Newegg's earlier price.