DirecTV Genie, anyone have this?

[ND40oz]

Originally Posted by joshsquall

I had this issue until I removed the cinema connection kit and just plugged an Ethernet cable directly into my HR34. Many other people reported the same thing.

That's what I've seen as well, but every time I call them they state that it's not supported. It's like most things, the customers seem to know more about the product then the company does. Might as well just try it at this point though.

[smitbret]

Yeah, the HR34 will supply an internet connection across the rest of the network if you plug a cable directly into it. That connection is not supported by DirecTV and the HR2x boxes don't have the same capability. They require the CCK. You can run a separate connection to each box and bypass the CCK and it will still work, but the CCK is usually easier and any box you don't connect won't be on the whole home network or have internet access.

[jaha2000]

Originally Posted by smitbret

Yeah, the HR34 will supply an internet connection across the rest of the network if you plug a cable directly into it. That connection is not supported by DirecTV and the HR2x boxes don't have the same capability. They require the CCK. You can run a separate connection to each box and bypass the CCK and it will still work, but the CCK is usually easier and any box you don't connect won't be on the whole home network or have internet access.

I am assuming you dont have ethernet in every room you have a box then..

To me. The CCK is for people who are not tech savy. All the CCK does is use a form of ethernet over coax. More hardware, more plugs, more stuff to fail.
The installer that came to my house when i got my HR34 asked how i had whole home when i didnt have DECA boxes. After arguing for 20 minutes about how DECA works and the difference between DECA and ethernet i told him to just hook the HR34 up and see what happens. He told me they are trained to not support that type of connection. My guess, they dont want their techs having to deal with peoples routers and networks in there home.

[smitbret]

Whole-Home DVR and the internet connection are actually ethernet signals that are diplexed on to the coax line feeding each receiver. It's a MoCA setup, actually. The CCKs are used to piggy back the signal from a 3rd party router onto the coax line and DECA adapters combine/split the signals on the boxes that don't have it built in.

The piggy backed signal comes into the room on the coax and connects to the DECA adapter on one end. The signal gets split in the DECA and the other end of the DECA has a coax connection that carries the Sat signal to the Sat-In port of the receiver and an ethernet connection that carries the Whole-Home/Internet signal to the receiver's ethernet port. H24, HR24, H25 and HR34 have the DECA adapters built in. The rest of the HD boxes will have the DECA about 4-6 inches behind the Sat-In 1 connector. None of this applies to the upcoming HR44.

Let's say you have 2 HDDVRs and 2 HD receivers and you have whole-home DVR but no internet connection, then the Receivers obtain their own IP addresses that are in the form 169.254.x.x. If you were to go into the System Info of each Device, you'd get IP addressing like this:

HDDVR 1 - 169.254.1.16
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17

From that point, sharing of recordings is just like sharing files across a network. Batman was recorded at 169.254.1.12. 169.254.1.14 is requesting it and it gets shared across the network on the piggybacked signal.

Let's say you sign up for a new DSL connection and you decide to run an ethernet cable into the back of HDDVR 1. When you do that, the router takes over the assigning of the IP addresses and your IP addressing will look something like this:

HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13 (assigned by the router)
HDDVR 2 - 169.254.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 169.254.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 169.254.1.17

Now HDDVR 1 is now on a separate network and can't see or share with the other devices, but it will be the only device in the system that has access to the internet. You could run an ethernet cable to all 4 boxes at all 4 different locations and get:

HDDVR 1 - 192.168.1.13
HDDVR 2 - 192.168.1.12
HD Rec 1 - 192.168.1.14
HD Rec 2 - 192.168.1.17

They're all on the same network, all sharing recordings and all connected to the internet.

This can be a pain because 90% of the population doesn't have an active ethernet port in each room of their house where they watch TV so they can't run an ethernet cable to each box. Not to mention, setting up a coax and ethernet connection from different centralized locations can be cumbersome and just adds another messy cable to each box. That's where the CCK comes in. The CCK is just like a reverse DECA and there are 2 types, wired and wireless. You can put it anywhere on any coax line for the DirecTV system and it will piggyback an ethernet signal onto the coax line. If it's a wired CCK, you'll just run an ethernet cable to the CCK where it connects to the DirecTV coax line and the ethernet signal will be brought to all DirecTV boxes from that point. Wireless CCKs are really just bridges with a built-in MoCA adapter. Just place it anywhere in the DirecTV coax line and establish the wireless connection with your wireless router and the ethernet signal will be carried to all of the DirecTV boxes on the system. Makes it a lot simpler and cleaner.

The HDDVRs and HD receivers can accept an active ethernet signal but can't establish one to the rest of the receivers on the system. The HR34 has a reverse DECA that can. You CAN plug an ethernet cable into the HR34 and skip the CCK altogether. The HR34's reverse DECA will put the ethernet signal on the coax line and send it to the other boxes. For some reason, though, DirecTV says this is an unauthorized connection and the installers are require to hook it up using a CCK anyway or they get penalized. The technical support agents aren't taught this either and they would only know if they heard from somewhere else or found out by playing with the hardware on their own systems.

The HR44 has a built-in wireless CCK-W and reverse DECA so the CCKs are completely redundant. You will not be allowed to have an HR44 and a wireless CCK. You would be allowed a wired CCK and the installer would have to get a waiver and disable the internal wireless CCK in the HR44.

The C31 clients and the upcoming C41 clients just mirror what's happening in the HR34 or HR44 none of this is really applicable. If the HR34/HR44 is internet connected, the clients will be, too.

Sorry if this is long, just wanted to be thorough.

[jaha2000]

Fair enough...
I have ethernet in every room in my house, and in that same wall plate, i have coax.
Everything runs to a central location in a closet in my basement.
My router, my patch panel and the splitter for SWM are all in one spot.

I would rather run all the whole home stuff over coax, over a gige switch. Call me old school, but i still dont think the wireless stuff works as steady as wires for streaming.

[Zargon]

Originally Posted by jaha2000

Fair enough...
I have ethernet in every room in my house, and in that same wall plate, i have coax.
Everything runs to a central location in a closet in my basement.
My router, my patch panel and the splitter for SWM are all in one spot.

I would rather run all the whole home stuff over coax, over a gige switch. Call me old school, but i still dont think the wireless stuff works as steady as wires for streaming.

yeah would be nice, I have like 60% of my house wired, its from the 60's and parts of it are NOT easy to get to

[joshsquall]

My whole home DVR stopped working yesterday for some reason. I think it's probably because I just wall mounted the TV where my SWM power inserter is and it probably got jostled and lost power or signal. Unplugged everything, plugged in the PI, then plugged in the receivers one by one. Everything's working now. Very weird.

[glitchsys]

Originally Posted by smitbret

Whole-Home DVR and the internet connection are actually ethernet signals that are diplexed on to the coax line feeding each receiver. It's a MoCA setup, actually. The CCKs are used to piggy back the signal from a 3rd party router onto the coax line and DECA adapters combine/split the signals on the boxes that don't have it built in.
...
Sorry if this is long, just wanted to be thorough.

Dude! Incredible response. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I'm old school and prefer wired when possible, I have Gigabit switches and ethernet to every room of my house. I was wondering why the 'Genie' aka HR34, had an Ethernet port on the back, but then the installer gave me that Cinema Connection Kit (CCK) thing, but I insisted he connect the CCK to my network via Ethernet and he did. I found my DHCP server gave the HR34 an IP and I changed the DHCP server around to give it a static IP, I like to know where my equipment is. But I was tracking a 'rogue' IP down today and eventually traced it to the client. I wasn't aware the Client, aka C31, got an IP also. Yeah both the HR34 (Genie) and C31 (Client) got it's IP via the single connection to the CCK. Based on your reading, I can just remove the CCK altogether, plug the ethernet into the HR34 and both will get an IP just the same. Based on previous posts, this actually may remove some lag and delay issues with on-demand as well? I'm all for one less piece of equipment over-complicating things. The CCK has its own separate power source and is just another device to fail, if it's un-necessary, and even possibly causing issues, then I'll yank it out tomorrow.

Any idea what the ethernet-over-coax speed is? 10/100/1000? Guess it won't matter, there's no way to connect ethernet straight into the client, it'll have to come in via Coax, but the HR34 will do it.

[smitbret]

Originally Posted by glitchsys

Dude! Incredible response. That's the kind of info I'm looking for. I'm old school and prefer wired when possible, I have Gigabit switches and ethernet to every room of my house. I was wondering why the 'Genie' aka HR34, had an Ethernet port on the back, but then the installer gave me that Cinema Connection Kit (CCK) thing, but I insisted he connect the CCK to my network via Ethernet and he did. I found my DHCP server gave the HR34 an IP and I changed the DHCP server around to give it a static IP, I like to know where my equipment is. But I was tracking a 'rogue' IP down today and eventually traced it to the client. I wasn't aware the Client, aka C31, got an IP also. Yeah both the HR34 (Genie) and C31 (Client) got it's IP via the single connection to the CCK. Based on your reading, I can just remove the CCK altogether, plug the ethernet into the HR34 and both will get an IP just the same. Based on previous posts, this actually may remove some lag and delay issues with on-demand as well? I'm all for one less piece of equipment over-complicating things. The CCK has its own separate power source and is just another device to fail, if it's un-necessary, and even possibly causing issues, then I'll yank it out tomorrow.

Any idea what the ethernet-over-coax speed is? 10/100/1000? Guess it won't matter, there's no way to connect ethernet straight into the client, it'll have to come in via Coax, but the HR34 will do it.

Yeah, you could bypass the CCK entirely but DirecTV doesn't want you to know that. I don't know that it will speed anything up but it is one less thing to go wrong.

The C31s will all get their own IP address. DVR recordings are shared via Ethernet. In fact, since clients don't have their own tuners and rely on the Genie for everything, I don't think the coax signal from the dish is even utilized by them. I believe they are 100% Ethernet and could be run completely wireless. In fact, rumors speculate that next gen will be wireless. I think DirecTV is just waiting for 802.11ac standards to be finalized. No way you'd try to do it with N.

I don't know which MoCA standard they are using, using but I'm sure it's running somewhere close to 100Mb/s.

[joshsquall]

Originally Posted by smitbret

Yeah, you could bypass the CCK entirely but DirecTV doesn't want you to know that. I don't know that it will speed anything up but it is one less thing to go wrong.

Yeah, I completely removed the CCK about a week after my install and plugged ethernet directly into my HR34. The CCK, at least in the past, was reported to cause skipping in downloaded shows. Removing it fixed the problem for me.

[Zargon]

Originally Posted by smitbret

Yeah, you could bypass the CCK entirely but DirecTV doesn't want you to know that. I don't know that it will speed anything up but it is one less thing to go wrong.

The C31s will all get their own IP address. DVR recordings are shared via Ethernet. In fact, since clients don't have their own tuners and rely on the Genie for everything, I don't think the coax signal from the dish is even utilized by them. I believe they are 100% Ethernet and could be run completely wireless. In fact, rumors speculate that next gen will be wireless. I think DirecTV is just waiting for 802.11ac standards to be finalized. No way you'd try to do it with N.

I don't know which MoCA standard they are using, using but I'm sure it's running somewhere close to 100Mb/s.

if the MoCA is at 100.....in theory 5ghz N would be fine for it wouldnt it?


Not that I want my direcTV stuff trying to stomp all over my personal WIFI

AC is supposed to penetrate worse than N

[smitbret]

Originally Posted by Zargon

if the MoCA is at 100.....in theory 5ghz N would be fine for it wouldnt it?


Not that I want my direcTV stuff trying to stomp all over my personal WIFI

AC is supposed to penetrate worse than N

In theory, "Yes". In practice, "No".

Wireless still has so much overhead and so many obstacles, that you'll never achieve advertised transmission rates.

I used to have my dual band router set to have the 2.4ghz band handle my internet and PC activities. I kept the 5ghz band for media streaming. I was able to playback my ripped DVD and BR content but would occasionally get a blip. FF/Rew? Not a chance. The latency was too high and/or the bandwidth just not enough. I finally gave up and ran a hardwire through a tbase 100 switch I had lying around and it worked fine.

N penetrates just fine, BTW. It's 5ghz vs. 2.4ghz that creates the penetrations issues. shorter wavelengths get blocked more easily. I don't know much about the 802.11ac standards yet, but if they run on the 2.4ghz band, I don't see much of an issue coming up.