So I spent 5 hours at a Honda dealership today

[NutBucket]

Also, a lot of Ford's "quality" problems have been because of people complaining about Sync. I forgot where I read this but basically many people bring the car in as having a problem when its simply user error. Its also why owners may not be as satisfied with these vehicles. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy one...without the Powershift trans

[Bateluer]

Originally Posted by NutBucket

Also, a lot of Ford's "quality" problems have been because of people complaining about Sync. I forgot where I read this but basically many people bring the car in as having a problem when its simply user error. Its also why owners may not be as satisfied with these vehicles. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy one...without the Powershift trans

Why would Sync problems cause low reliability scores? Thats not a feature that's going to stop anyone from driving the vehicle safely from Point A to Point B . . .

[CA19100]

Originally Posted by slag

Manufacturing defect? On a car with 83k?

You really consider 83K to be high enough mileage that teeth snapping off in a transmission's hydraulic pump (destroying the tranny and the torque converter in the process) is anything other than a defect?

Originally Posted by Ferzerp

Pretending that Chrysler is representative of the other domestics is like pretending Chinese made cars are representative of foreign cars.

Fair enough. As I said, I'd gladly have purchased another Ford if they had anything I liked at the time in my price range. I'll certainly consider them next time around. But Chrysler is dead to me.

[NutBucket]

Originally Posted by Bateluer

Why would Sync problems cause low reliability scores? Thats not a feature that's going to stop anyone from driving the vehicle safely from Point A to Point B . . .

From what I understand if a car is brought to the dealer with a complaint of something "wrong" it affects those initial quality scores, even if there's really nothing wrong with it per se. Its a funny thing I guess.

And I believe there have been some complaints about Powershift. I recall reading about at least one software update that has been released to address the complaints.

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by Bateluer

85392.

I'd only given the Focus a brief glance because the starting prices were higher. And I haven't been behind the wheel of one yet.

Truecar puts a Focus SE Hatch Automatic @ 17680 in your zip code with 0%APR right now. Go there and print out the certificate for the 3 dealers in your area that will honor it and go from there. If you go for the manual one it drops the price by another grand.

[Xonim]

Originally Posted by krunchykrome

When I bought my new 2008 Honda CRV at the dealership, they wouldn't budge on the price either.

We got a Honda dealer here down only $400 on a used 2010 Pilot this past weekend. Claimed they run on pretty slim margins during the winter due to a smaller customer base that time of year. Never thought about it, but makes sense. Not sure if it's true or not.

Looked at listed comps and decided it was fair for similar models, so we bit.

[Bateluer]

Originally Posted by NutBucket

From what I understand if a car is brought to the dealer with a complaint of something "wrong" it affects those initial quality scores, even if there's really nothing wrong with it per se. Its a funny thing I guess.

And I believe there have been some complaints about Powershift. I recall reading about at least one software update that has been released to address the complaints.

How do you get a software update for your car? Take it to the dealer?

[Bateluer]

Originally Posted by gus6464

Truecar puts a Focus SE Hatch Automatic @ 17680 in your zip code with 0%APR right now. Go there and print out the certificate for the 3 dealers in your area that will honor it and go from there. If you go for the manual one it drops the price by another grand.

I don't see that 17680 figure for the SE Hatch.

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by Bateluer

I don't see that 17680 figure for the SE Hatch.

[NutBucket]

Originally Posted by Bateluer

How do you get a software update for your car? Take it to the dealer?

There's an open recall on Honda for a software update for the hybrid system. Haven't bothered taking it in yet.

[Bateluer]

Originally Posted by gus6464

Oops, I read your earlier post as Fiesta, not Focus. My bad.

[Aikouka]

Originally Posted by Bateluer

Why would Sync problems cause low reliability scores? Thats not a feature that's going to stop anyone from driving the vehicle safely from Point A to Point B . . .

My friend has a 2012 Ford Explorer, and he told me that he's had to bring it to the dealer to reset MyFord Touch twice because there really isn't a super simple, easy way to reset the system. A person with a bit more car knowledge would probably just pull the fuse, but you have to figure that most people probably wouldn't do that.

Ultimately, if an average consumer sees a blank screen and nothing working, they're going to take it to the dealer.

[RossMAN]

Bateluer,

In regards to buying/negotiating, have you considered using CostCoauto, AAA, USAA, local CU auto buying service, etc.?

[gus6464]

OP on a side note have you also considered a Subaru Impreza Hatchback? They look really slick IMO and you get AWD.

[Zor Prime]

Originally Posted by NutBucket

There's an open recall on Honda for a software update for the hybrid system. Haven't bothered taking it in yet.

Evidently not for 2010+ Insights. I had mine in yesterday and asked them to check for ANY updates, as I'm aware there's 3 I could use. They told me they checked and that I didn't need any yet -- not so much that they didn't exist, I know they do.

I don't even want an IMA update I want the CVT update lol. =\ was in a hurry so left versus going round and round about it.

[NutBucket]

The recall only applies to the 6MT models and addresses a specific behavior that is potentially dangerous, hence its a recall.

[michal1980]

Originally Posted by Shawn

This. I love my mazdaspeed 3 but i like the regular 3s a lot too. The new mazda 3 skyactive's get 40mpg.

Definitely check out the mazda 2 though. Are you willing to drive manual or auto only?

mazda3 is outdated when compared to other cars in the class. excpet maybe the fit & corrolla. The focus, Subaru impreza, Nissan sentra, and civic are all overall better cars.

[Shawn]

Originally Posted by michal1980

mazda3 is outdated when compared to other cars in the class. excpet maybe the fit & corrolla. The focus, Subaru impreza, Nissan sentra, and civic are all overall better cars.

How exactly is it "outdated"?

[michal1980]

Originally Posted by NutBucket

Also, a lot of Ford's "quality" problems have been because of people complaining about Sync. I forgot where I read this but basically many people bring the car in as having a problem when its simply user error. Its also why owners may not be as satisfied with these vehicles. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to buy one...without the Powershift trans

sync is'nt the problem.

myfordtouch is.

They are different.

anyways. I looked up a focus se hatchback w/automatic (only option) in 85392 using usaa, they quote a price of 17287. (you dont get the 0% financing if you go this way though).

so add tax and tags to that

[gus6464]

Originally Posted by michal1980

sync is'nt the problem.

myfordtouch is.

They are different.

anyways. I looked up a focus se hatchback w/automatic (only option) in 85392 using usaa, they quote a price of 17287. (you dont get the 0% financing if you go this way though).

so add tax and tags to that

What's the APR at this price?

[NutBucket]

Whatever you qualify for....should be able to get sub 2% if you have good credit.

[Bateluer]

Originally Posted by RossMAN

Bateluer,

In regards to buying/negotiating, have you considered using CostCoauto, AAA, USAA, local CU auto buying service, etc.?

I don't have CostCo or AAA membership or USAA membership and I'm no longer a credit union member. :/

Originally Posted by michal1980

anyways. I looked up a focus se hatchback w/automatic (only option) in 85392 using usaa, they quote a price of 17287. (you dont get the 0% financing if you go this way though).

so add tax and tags to that

The sales tax out here stings, 8.5 to 9.5% depending on which city you're in.

I ended up buying the 2013 Fit Sport this morning, slightly above invoice but below the average selling price, according to Trucar. Did get them to through in a year of free oil changes though. There's depressingly little wiggle room on the invoice with these invoices.

Got 0.9% APR though.