YA(Gun)T: Modern M-6 Scout?

[GWestphal]

I was looking at survival guns and was trying to find a .22LR/20 gauge combo (the 2 most common rounds) , but it seems like nobody produces one these days.

I saw the M-6 Scout, but it seems a bit too spartan.

I have two relatively dumb questions.

1) The M-6 is nice in that it has 3 parts, barrel, pin, and stock. Obviously a semi auto will have a more complicated action. Is there a way to create an action that can be single shot or semi auto? I'm thinking in the case that the semi auto action breaks (hard to maintain during zombie apocalypse) it would still be usable for single shot?

2) How is the accuracy on these things? Could you get Savage nail driver accuracy?

One that was a little more comfortable would be great too.

[CurseTheSky]

The M6 is all about simplicity and ease of use. That's why it's not comfortable or ergonomic by any means, but fairly easy to lug around and comparatively easy to use in full Winter gear (mittens) or if injured, due to the trigger bar. It's kind of like an old Jeep Wrangler. I have seen several examples wrapped in paracord for increased comfort.

For a modern equivalent, I don't know of any .22LR / shotgun combos, but you could look into something like a Ruger 10/22 Takedown (my wife has one, we both love it) or a Marlin Papoose. The AR-7 is another option, but quality has been hit and miss. The advantage of all of those is the fact that they're semi-auto, so follow-up shots are much easier. The safeties (as far as I know) are much more standard as well, vs. the M6 which has a multi-position hammer used as the shot selector and the safety.

[irishScott]

Marlin Papoose: http://www.marlinfirearms.com/firear...ding/70pss.asp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32FgaIb66bM

Not a shotgun combo, but about the best .22 survival rifle on the market IMO.

[rommelrommel]

Most semis can be manually cycled without a ton of effort. Whether they can fire after something breaks depends on what broke.

[LTC8K6]

Savage 42?

[GWestphal]

The 42 looks kinda cool, but isn't chambered for 20 gauge, how easy with .410 ammo be to find if it all goes to crap?

[LTC8K6]

12 gauge is the most common shotgun size. 20 is next. .410 is third.

I wouldn't expect trouble finding these sizes as places like Wal-mart stock them all.

You can always stock up and rotate your stock to keep fresher rounds on hand for the apocalypse.

[LTC8K6]

http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/mp...-shotgunrifle/

.223 rem and 12 gauge.

[LTC8K6]

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...056195&uf=true

This used to be available and might still be if you look around. Maybe find a used one?

[pontifex]

Henry makes a small survival rifle .22. Saw a used one at Gander Mtn. the other day and the stock seemed really cheap/thin

[Agent11]

If you are seriously looking for a survival rifle the lee enfield is about the best you can get for the money. Higher magazine capacity than most all modern rifles, smooth action, large caliber.

Indian Ishapore in .308/7.62nato(10-12 rounds depending on year of mfr.) was manufactured up until the 70's iirc last bolt action manufactured for a standing army, or the British Mkiii and mkiv in .303(10rnd) served in wwi and wwii, they even tried to have it banned as too brutal for civilized combat due to the damage inflicted by the .303 British round.



You can get one in excellent shape for around 150-300 depending on whether it is still in stock form and if the serials all match.

www.gunbroker.com

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/...g=308-762-nato

You can get mil surplus ammo for plinking / end of the world storage, and they still manufacture expanding ammunition for hunting... And if all else fails you have a bayonet.

[Fayd]

Originally Posted by Agent11

If you are seriously looking for a survival rifle the lee enfield is about the best you can get for the money. Higher magazine capacity than most all modern rifles, smooth action, large caliber.

Indian Ishapore in .308/7.62nato was manufactured up until the 70's iirc last bolt action manufactured for a standing army, or the British Mkiii and mkiv in .303 served in wwi and wwii, they even tried to have it banned as too brutal for civilized combat due to the damage inflicted by the .303 British round.

You can get one in excellent shape for around 150-300 depending on whether it is still in stock form and if the serials all match.

www.gunbroker.com

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/...g=308-762-nato

You can get mil surplus ammo for plinking / end of the world storage, and they still manufacture expanding ammunition for hunting.

i think your definition of survival rifle is completely different from his definition.

[Agent11]

Perhaps. I would be confident in my ability to feed myself and my family, and defend my home with an enfield though... Not so much with a 22/20.

But we have elk, bear, deer, mountain goats, bighorn sheep and mountain lions in Oregon.. If all you have available is squirrels,chipmunks and pigeons then yea.. I could see not needing much firepower.

[Fayd]

Originally Posted by Agent11

Perhaps. I would be confident in my ability to feed myself and my family, and defend my home with an enfield though... Not so much with a 22/20.

But we have elk, bear, deer, mountain goats, bighorn sheep and mountain lions in Oregon.. If all you have available is squirrels,chipmunks and pigeons then yea.. I could see not needing much firepower.

the M6 is more about utility than pure killing power. it's meant for survival for a single person for a limited period of time. it folds up small, holds a small amount of ammo, and will allow you to live in some relative comfort for said small period of time.

besides, your singing the praises of the enfield is unwarranted. it's inaccurate, relatively hard to get ammo for it in the US, and kind of ugly. if you're gonna suggest a bolt action larger caliber rifle in the US for hunting post-civilization, then i'd suggest a stainless barrel remington 700, in whatever caliber is most appropriate to the game near you. .30-06 is fine for anything in the continental US.

[Agent11]

The ammo is very easy to get, especially for the ishapore. And it can be very accurate, certainly within normal hunting ranges. If you try to take a big horn at 1000 yards you had better have a good scope and be sighted in, but it isn't unreasonable.

It's just an extremely versatile package that is inexpensive, with inexpensive bulk ammo available. Worth consideration.

[rommelrommel]

Ok, now you're just bullshitting. 1000 yards? ell-oh-ell

[Agent11]

It is imminently possible. Check youtube. there are tons of videos of enfields shooting at those ranges.

I don't have a scope for mine atm, but when I find one that I don't have to cut the stock to mount I'd be happy to prove it.

[rommelrommel]

Shooting what exactly at 1000 yards? I hope steel because that's a highly improbable shot for a lee enfield on a game animal... that's about 2 moa for a 20" circle at 1000 yards assuming your corrections for wind/distance/angle are PERFECT which they will not be.

So what do the experts say about LE accuracy?

Skennerton, Lee Enfield Story (1993ed.), p212:

“Accuracy tests for the No. 4 sniper rifle involved placing 7 out of 7 shots within a 5 inch diameter at 200 yards & 6 out of 7 shots into a 10 inch diameter at 400yards.”

From this report then the minimum standard for No. 4 “T” sniper rifles was 2.5 MOA out to 400 yards for at least 6 shots. In the case of the “T” series of rifles, these pieces were hand picked to begin with and then worked over completely by an armourer in order to maximize the accuracy potential. The rifles were still feed service issue Mk VII ammunition though my understanding is precision shooters used a “gauging system” to measure all ammo to allow rounds to be sorted into batches for peak performance. No doubt tailoring a specific handload to each rifle would have allowed for a greater degree of accuracy again but of course in times of conflict this is not practical. A latter day standard is a generic premium load IE: US GI National Match ammo. Sniper rifles aside what can a “standard” issue SMLE or No.4 rifle be expected to produce in MOA terms with Mk VII ammunition (174gr Spitzer bullet at 2440fps)?

So, a hand picked and not 70 year old no. 4 sniper rifle was 2.5 moa or better at 400 yards. Handloads could push that, but not enough most likely. 1000 yards on a game animal with ANY rifle is a marginal shot unless it's a dead still day, you have a good rest, good rangefinder, extensive experience shooting at that range, and everything goes your way. Shooting that far on a rifle that simply is not inherently accurate is just silly.

[Agent11]

I never said it was 'the most accurate rifle.' It can hit with deadly force out to 1000 yards, and you can expect to have a reasonable chance of hitting at that range if you are practiced in it and have a good barrel and a good scope.

However that isn't even the main issue. It was claimed that it is an 'inaccurate rifle' it is not.

Manufacture of the ishapore started in 63 and ended in 75, and the Brits stopped production in the 60's, there are still many Enfield's in excellent condition.

[rommelrommel]

They're inaccurate relative to almost every bolt action on the shelves today so I think it was a fair comment. They're cheap and they do have a fast action and a big magazine. When you can pick up a tikka or several other rifles for around 700 bucks that guarantee sub moa performance (and have modern scope mounts) I don't know why you'd consider shooting an enfield at that range unless it's all you had and your life was riding on it.

[Agent11]

'fun' is the only good reason really.

When considering a 'survival' weapon though I would consider cheap bulk ammo to be a plus as well.

[OverVolt]

I never even knew these existed, and... this is an interesting concept lol.

[Agent11]

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/Model42

This looks like it could slay some quail and squirells. 410 bore though... Although isn't the scout 410 as well?

Here are a bunch of savage combo guns, I don't think many are still in production though.
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Sav...cfm?cat_id=574

Some .22/20's in that list, spendy though.

search .22/20 camper on some auction sites and you'll find an older model for less... Still overpriced for what they are imo.

http://www.armslist.com/classifieds/...earch=.22%2F20

You would be better off with a good double barrel 12 gauge for ducks and geese and a good 22 rifle for small game. Would be less expensive too I bet.

[pontifex]

Originally Posted by Fayd

the M6 is more about utility than pure killing power. it's meant for survival for a single person for a limited period of time. it folds up small, holds a small amount of ammo, and will allow you to live in some relative comfort for said small period of time.

besides, your singing the praises of the enfield is unwarranted. it's inaccurate, relatively hard to get ammo for it in the US, and kind of ugly. if you're gonna suggest a bolt action larger caliber rifle in the US for hunting post-civilization, then i'd suggest a stainless barrel remington 700, in whatever caliber is most appropriate to the game near you. .30-06 is fine for anything in the continental US.

he's talking about .308 chambered Enfields, not .303, or at least that's what I believe he is saying. If he's talking about .303, then, yeah, bullshit on the surplus ammo. that has dried up a long time ago. you can still get commercial .303 though.

[Agent11]

http://ammoseek.com/?gun=rifle&cal=159 7.62 nato

You can get 1000 rounds of 7.62nato pretty inexpensive, and you can still find people with lots of .303 who decide to sell off what they have.. Just have to keep your nose to the wind.