Intel profit sinks 27% on dreadful PC sales

[R0H1T]

Originally Posted by Homeles

You obviously have not heard of Ivy Bridge, then.

That depends on which IVB you're referring to i.e. HD2500 or HD4000 parts ? I don't recall the exact numbers but even with a die shrink, 16EU's & 1.15 GHz GPU clock rate Intel hasn't quite shot the moon with HD4K either so whilst a definite improvement over previous gen it isn't that groundbreaking of an achievement !

[Homeles]

This is not an achievement? It was a good 50%+ increase in performance per watt. That's better than 6970 -> 7970. By your argument, the 7970 wasn't a groundbreaking achievement either.

[Nemesis 1]

Originally Posted by R0H1T

Well that's because Intel keeps on slapping more EU's on their chips, nearly doubling them each gen, so its not like they're greatly optimizing its performance &/or efficiency just moar cores like PowerVR on ARM !

Well. I suppose If your open minded enough to see the merits of the AMD chip Temash . Which is just now being produced we should see working products in june. Thats great we all seen the news , Yet we all also seen the GT3e video. If the GT3e can indeed stand toe toe toe with the 650m than this is a game changer. I think it may actually be close . and with intels horriable drivers things can ownly get better. Everyone is completely iignoring the GT3e , I think its great . and I love that intel figured out away to make money off of something that has been free. Choice its a wonderful thing never fully valued till its gone. This is a new choice and Its a good choice to be able to make.

[R0H1T]

@Homeles

You gave me load GPU power consumption number for IVB vs SNB, there are other variables in there i.e.

1) 16EU's vs 12EU(33% more)
2) GPU clock rate bump(not sure of the exact numbers but it should be higher)
3) Die shrink from 32nm to 22nm

If that review on AT took that into account only then should you claim better efficiency, just FYI IVB vs Haswell on the same process node would be a better comparison IMHO !

[Homeles]

GPU clocks went down on Ivy Bridge. And take a look at my edit.

[R0H1T]

Originally Posted by Nemesis 1

Well. I suppose If your open minded enough to see the merits of the AMD chip Temash . Which is just now being produced we should see working products in june. Thats great we all seen the news , Yet we all also seen the GT3e video. If the GT3e can indeed stand toe toe toe with the 650m than this is a game changer. I think it may actually be close . and with intels horriable drivers things can ownly get better. Everyone is completely iignoring the GT3e , I think its great . and I love that intel figured out away to make money off of something that has been free. Choice its a wonderful thing never fully valued till its gone. This is a new choice and Its a good choice to be able to make.

Yes no doubt but what Intel charges for the high(er) end HD graphics part is usually way higher than a similarly or better performing, considering GPU performance only, part from AMD

[R0H1T]

Originally Posted by Homeles

GPU clocks went down on Ivy Bridge. And take a look at my edit.

Point taken but still IVB vs Haswell would be a better comparison with them being on the same node

[Nemesis 1]

Originally Posted by R0H1T

Yes no doubt but what Intel charges for the high(er) end HD graphics part is usually way higher than a similarly or better performing, considering GPU performance only, part from AMD

The GT3 is not the high end part . There are rumors of a high end part thats all. The GT3 is meant for the mobile market not desktop other than rumor. Yes there will be a premium for edram mobiles but that will not effect clock speeds only power used by edram . It will be interesting the price intel puts on this option. None know the price yet all assume. I would say under $40

[piasabird]

I dont think there is a compelling reason to upgrade. I am still using an E7200 CPU and it works fine. I also have another computer with an i-5 2500k. It works great with the integrated HD3000 graphics.

Another problem is that Windows 8 is making big business to not want to upgrade their computers. Windows 8 is junk ware.

Then the tripple wammy is the Tablet Craze going on right now.

Our current monetary policy is also to blame. No money and times are tight.

[Homeles]

Originally Posted by piasabird

Another problem is that Windows 8 is making big business to not want to upgrade their computers. Windows 8 is junk ware.

Your loss.

[frozentundra123456]

Originally Posted by R0H1T

You do realize that AMD IGP's suffer inherently due to bandwidth constraints & what not ! In a couple of years when DDR4 becomes mainstream AMD will have the lower end of the desktop market all to itself, provided they don't go bankrupt, not to mention their GPGPU strategy & GCN cores will pretty much obliterate anything Intel has or will develop at that point in time !

Intels igp is more than adequate for normal use except for gaming, and Haswell will be even better. For serious gaming, a discrete card will still be the preferred solution. Sure igps will improve, but do you think discrete cards will be standing still? It is a moving target, and no way I can see APUs catching up. So I still see APUs as a niche product for those who want to do some gaming, but are willing to do it in a very limited manner. I am talking about the desktop here.

Mobile will be much more interesting perhaps. An APU makes much more sense in a laptop or tablet, where you are power/thermally constrained and cannot add a discrete card easily.
Unfortuantely for AMD in laptops, their lead in igp performance is much less than in desktops.
They might have a decent advantage in tablets due to bobcat and is follow ups, but one wonders how long that will last given the resources and shift in focus to this segment from Intel.

[simboss]

Originally Posted by CHADBOGA

How does TSMC show this?

What if ARM produces a Netburst?


They have only recently begun to concentrate on the areas where ARM is strongest and in the semi-conductor field, it takes quite a while for your efforts to bear fruit once you change direction.

Intel's previous focus was solely on performance at all cost and competing head on with AMD . Now that AMD have been reduced to near irrelevance and probably won't be around in 5 years time, they are now focusing on ARM.

It is no good carrying on and pretending that Intel has spent the last 10 years targeting ARM, when they haven't been doing that, and thus calling Intel's efforts a failure.

If ARM does a NetBurst, their will still be QC, Apple, Marvell and others to do their own uarch, it would be really bad luck that they all screw-up.

When Intel did NetBurst, they were actually lucky to have AMD : there was still someone to do proper x86 processors and keep the x86 ISA alive.

This time, if they screw-up, everyone gets into the ARM boat, and there is no coming back.
The only way for Intel in that scenario would be to fab ARM designs as well, which would be an acceptable plan, but obviously not the preferred one.


I agree with the fact that Intel has not been fully competing with ARM for the last 10 years, but neither did ARM...Interesting times ahead.

[piasabird]

Another problem is the Ivy Bridge processors run hot.

[Nemesis 1]

Intel has one card That it can play. That could prove the biggest step forward ever, Here is my idea of the perfect intel Haswell Chip . Use the 2 core soc soix chip . With the improvements intel made to haswell 2 core 4 threaded haswell should prove very competitive gamer. Tune for GT3e graphics . This would be my star chip in mobiles for the graphics crowd. In desktop I would do the same add another gpu slice. call it GT3e+
and allow that 2 core chip k like capabilities.

[NTMBK]

Originally Posted by frozentundra123456

Intels igp is more than adequate for normal use except for gaming, and Haswell will be even better.

Not if you start cranking up the resolution. From a review of the 13" Retina Macbook:

The 2.5GHz Core i5 in the 13-inch Pro offers terrific raw CPU performance in benchmarks, running Geekbench at a solid 6700-6800 range, but the integrated Intel HD 4000 graphics chip can struggle driving such a high-resolution display. Oddly, it showed up for me more during day-to-day usage than under any crazy test situation I came up with: RAW files in Aperture scroll around just fine while QuickTime is playing back 1080p movie trailers, but Safari and Chrome both stutter a little while scrolling simple web pages. And they stutter a lot with image-heavy sites like The Verge and Polygon.

You’ll also notice some general lag when you start multitasking heavily. Open more than a few tabs and apps and you’ll start to notice things slowing down around the system as a whole. My standard workday set of 15-20 tabs open in Chrome, music playing in Spotify, email and IRC open, and Skype, iPhoto, and Messages running in the background never pegged the CPU meter, but I could clearly feel the system running just a hair behind me. You might not notice it if you’re coming from an Air or a much older MacBook, but I’m used to my 15-inch Pro with 2.3GHz Core i7 and Radeon HD 6750M graphics, and and the 13-inch Retina is definitely a little slower. If you’re a pro looking to step down to a smaller machine, you’ll almost certainly notice the performance dropoff as well.

The simple fact is that Retina display is a lot of pixels to push around for that graphics chip — just consider that Apple uses the same GPU in the MacBook Air, which has a third of the pixels and can still be made to drop frames under heavy multitasking loads. Plug in an external monitor and you’ll feel the hit come even quicker in day-to-day use — I tried both my 1080p TV over HDMI and my 24-inch 1920 x 1080 display over mini DisplayPort, and I could make YouTube videos stutter on one display simply by loading The Verge in the other.

http://www.theverge.com/2012/11/1/35...display-review

High-DPI displays are already here in laptops and tablets- and they need some seriously beefy graphics hardware, even for non-gaming use.

[Homeles]

Originally Posted by piasabird

Another problem is the Ivy Bridge processors run hot.

Which is a solvable issue.

[R0H1T]

Originally Posted by frozentundra123456

Intels igp is more than adequate for normal use except for gaming, and Haswell will be even better. For serious gaming, a discrete card will still be the preferred solution. Sure igps will improve, but do you think discrete cards will be standing still? It is a moving target, and no way I can see APUs catching up. So I still see APUs as a niche product for those who want to do some gaming, but are willing to do it in a very limited manner. I am talking about the desktop here.

Mobile will be much more interesting perhaps. An APU makes much more sense in a laptop or tablet, where you are power/thermally constrained and cannot add a discrete card easily.
Unfortuantely for AMD in laptops, their lead in igp performance is much less than in desktops.
They might have a decent advantage in tablets due to bobcat and is follow ups, but one wonders how long that will last given the resources and shift in focus to this segment from Intel.

Yes I was specifically talking about the desktops, lower end around ~200$ to be more precise, where AMD should enjoy the fruits of GCN, GPGPU, DDR4 & rather ironically an eco downturn which may last for another couple of years. The single largest factor in all of these calculations will however be AMD's finances as it'll drive them to cut costs even more thereby pushing them over the inevitable cliff !

[piasabird]

The sales of desktop computers were down even before the tablet market. Perhaps phones are also cutting into the computer market.

[Nemesis 1]

Well it seems that the new desktops will be able to run a tablet screen over wi fi that to me is interesting inso far as gameing on tablet like devices. If you can push the power of a desktop to a tablet type screen high res and be wireless . I see only bright things for the home central computer.