Do people hypnotize themselves over the real worth of expensive equipment?

[Phanuel]

Originally Posted by Pacfanweb

So again, why are you here posting about this stuff? You don't care about sound. This is a audio thread.

I don't hate the guy, but yes, this is kind of what he is. "Good enough". He comes into the garage subforum and talks down anyone who likes European cars or sports cars or muscle cars... basically anything that isn't an A to B box.

*shrug* Just filter him out.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by JackBurton

It sounds like you are content with having low standards.

It's all about perspective you see.

TO YOU, that might be low standard.

To rest of the world, and ME, even a $600 Polk speaker system is a blessing.

You have to understand I come from land where Grundig 1 cassette radio was a gods sent and most people would never own a receiver in a lifetime (forget about speakers).

So TO ME, that Polk system I have......I feel like a GOD/I'm blessed.

Heck even most of the people in America don't even bother with sound systems in general. I don't see many people in my middle class neighborhood have anything but Soundbars and TV speakers. When they hear my system their jaws drop.

SO , perhaps YOUR standards are WAY too high?

Originally Posted by Pacfanweb

So again, why are you here posting about this stuff? You don't care about sound. This is a audio thread.

Yea cause you know, your speakers and audio system has to be worth at least $5000 in order to be able to post here, or care about sound.

So you got your panties wet because this thread is exactly about people like you?

Originally Posted by Phanuel

I don't hate the guy, but yes, this is kind of what he is. "Good enough". He comes into the garage subforum and talks down anyone who likes European cars or sports cars or muscle cars... basically anything that isn't an A to B box.

*shrug* Just filter him out.

Talk down myself? I own a European car for over 15 + years and have put over 250k miles on it. Just about every family member of mine has a European car.

I think you are taking what I say to the extreme. I have extensive experience in working on, maintaining and fixing European cars and yes I used to be a Euro snob like most of the car guys. Guess what I have learned over the years, European cars are WAY too over rated and PITA (in general). They are overly complex and overly expensive for no apparent reason.

Even people that don't know shit about cars will tell you that European cars are not very reliable and costly to fix. Yet many "hard core car guys" believe they are "quality" vehicles.

It's a common knowledge. So you tell me how wrong I am and how you feel about European cars.

[Eureka]

There are just people out there who can't find the subtle differences, or care enough to spend the extra $. That's fine.

There are also people who can't afford the nice stuff and secretly wish they had it, so they convince themselves otherwise and put others down for having it in order to make themselves feel better/suprerior. That's life.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by Eureka

There are just people out there who can't find the subtle differences, or care enough to spend the extra $. That's fine.

This is me. I don't see a point of spending 5-10x the money for subtle difference.

Originally Posted by Eureka

There are also people who can't afford the nice stuff and secretly wish they had it, so they convince themselves otherwise and put others down for having it in order to make themselves feel better/suprerior. That's life.

I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but please do show me where I put other's down?

If anything, quite the opposite. Many here are putting me down cause "$600 Polk system" is crap and I know NOTHING about quality due to that.

If someone wants to spend 100k on a system, it's fine by me. Whatever floats your boat (I can care less).

[Eureka]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

I'm not sure if you are referring to me, but please do show me where I put other's down?

If anything, quite the opposite. Many here are putting me down cause "$600 Polk system" is crap and I know NOTHING about quality due to that.

If someone wants to spend 100k on a system, it's fine by me. Whatever floats your boat (I can care less).

I haven't read the full thread, but OP is for one. People aren't necessarily gullible just for spending more; you're crossing the threshold from which it goes from a consumer item to a botique/artisan item.

Polk makes good quality speakers. But they are still consumer levels (they sell large volumes so they can cut down costs).

When you reach into higher level stuff, it's no longer high volume. You pay for labor, for the design and for the small details. Whether that's not worth the money is up to the buyer. You don't compare a $100 dinner at a nicer restaurant to a $20 one from the diner, even if the ingredients are the same.

Likewise, you talk about luxury cars. Yes they are expensive to fix. But they are much nicer to be in. Nicer materials, nicer feeling, and a better experience overall. The quality isn't in the reliability but in the experience. A BMW i6 is much smoother than a Ford V6. The interface and iDrive is very conveninent. Fit and finish is better. And yes I've worked on German cars, and they are a PITA. But if the experience is important then people are willing to pay the extra premium for it.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by Eureka

I haven't read the full thread, but OP is for one. People aren't necessarily gullible just for spending more; you're crossing the threshold from which it goes from a consumer item to a botique/artisan item.

Polk makes good quality speakers. But they are still consumer levels (they sell large volumes so they can cut down costs)

When you reach into higher level stuff, it's no longer high volume. You pay for labor, for the design and for the small details. Whether that's not worth the money is up to the buyer. You don't compare a $100 dinner at a nicer restaurant to a $20 one from the diner, even if the ingredients are the same.

Correct

Originally Posted by Eureka

Likewise, you talk about luxury cars. Yes they are expensive to fix. But they are much nicer to be in. Nicer materials, nicer feeling, and a better experience overall. The quality isn't in the reliability but in the experience. A BMW i6 is much smoother than a Ford V6. The interface and iDrive is very conveninent. Fit and finish is better. And yes I've worked on German cars, and they are a PITA. But if the experience is important then people are willing to pay the extra premium for it.

To be honest with you, if you were talking 90s I would say yes. But this day and age, german interior quality has gone down hill (in both design AND quality). The gap is almost non existent now.

I'm not a fan of new BMW, AUdi or Mercedes interior designs. Heck I dislike them all together. Mind you, I LOVE 90s interior design (nice and classy, clean lines and no melted plastic look).

As far as quality materials, sorry but they are now CRAP. My mom's X5 has vent control buttons falling off after 2 years of ownership. Fake wood is just garbage/cracked and the best quality item in the entire interior are the Vinyl seats.

I think the tables have turned in the automotive world. And German manufactures are taking advantage of their brand names (just like apple) and are riding out as much profits as they can get.

It's all a perception now. People see brand so they assume "it must be great". The truth is, it's quite the opposite, materials German makers have been putting in their cars past 5-10 years are as crappy as your average 15-20k car.

The more you pay for your german car the more you will get raped in the service department. The truth is, Germans have ALWAYS struggled to get electronics right. These are BASICS. If they can't get the basics right, why in the world would I pay them to put in all kinds of worthless garbage on top of it and make the car more complex and unreliable. I would never EVER recommend a German car out of warranty to anyone that I care about.

But yes, people are too stupid to notice and continue to support these companies ways.

PS. I have # of friends that are master mechanics for Euro brands and Service Advisers. They not only agree with me, they will take what I said to a WHOLE another level.

[GrumpyMan]

For that kind of money I'll just go check out the band in concert or maybe just hire them to play for you.

[JackBurton]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

It's all about perspective you see.

TO YOU, that might be low standard.

To rest of the world, and ME, even a $600 Polk speaker system is a blessing.

You have to understand I come from land where Grundig 1 cassette radio was a gods sent and most people would never own a receiver in a lifetime (forget about speakers).

So TO ME, that Polk system I have......I feel like a GOD/I'm blessed.

Heck even most of the people in America don't even bother with sound systems in general. I don't see many people in my middle class neighborhood have anything but Soundbars and TV speakers. When they hear my system their jaws drop.

SO , perhaps YOUR standards are WAY too high?

No, it sound like you've come to terms with having to settle for "good enough" in life. Others don't have to. Sorry.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by JackBurton

No, it sound like you've come to terms with having to settle for "good enough" in life. Others don't have to. Sorry.

No, I came to terms with reality and not lala world that you live in?

Polk speakers are not low standard in this world. They might be in "hard core" audiophile world.

The kind of people this thread is about.

[JackBurton]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

No, I came to terms with reality and not lala world that you live in?

Polk speakers are not low standard in this world. They might be in "hard core" audiophile world.

The kind of people this thread is about.

I know comparing yourself with the local WalMart Joe's standard makes you feel good about yourself, but understand, others have higher standards. Polk speakers are fine, but they are average. Nothing special. And in THIS thread it's all about people that take audio seriously, which is NOT the average Joe.

Also understand you don't have to spend $100k for great audio. Salk has some FANTASTIC speakers for $1800 for the pair which will slap around ANY Polk and even the higher dollar speakers for a VERY reasonable price.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by JackBurton

I know comparing yourself with the local WalMart Joe's standard makes you feel good about yourself, but understand, others have higher standards. Polk speakers are fine, but they are average. Nothing special. And in THIS thread it's all about people that take audio seriously, which is NOT the average Joe.

And what makes you think/say I don't understand that?

Originally Posted by JackBurton

Also understand you don't have to spend $100k for great audio. Salk has some FANTASTIC speakers for $1800 for the pair which will slap around ANY Polk and even the higher dollar speakers for a VERY reasonable price.

Is this some kind of a news flash?

And 4k speakers will slap around Salk as well....

8k speakers will do that too....

Where does it end. What kind of difference are we talking about? Price to performance ratio only gets smaller as you keep spending.

[Phanuel]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

And what makes you think/say I don't understand that?



Is this some kind of a news flash?

And 4k speakers will slap around Salk as well....

8k speakers will do that too....

Where does it end. What kind of difference are we talking about? Price to performance ratio only gets smaller as you keep spending.

Sure, but this is a hobby / preference thing for us. You spend your money / time on other things. There are measurable improvements in spending a somewhat reasonably healthy amount of money of better quality speakers.

Now, if we start discussing interconnects and silver and "FAP" tubes, then yes, we've gone of the rails / nuked the fridge / jumped the shark here and deserve to be ridiculed for all of time.

[JAG87]

Why are you two arguing back and forth about something that is subjective? Everybody has a different perception of what is better or worth it. Don't just go by your opinion and the opinions of those who surround you.

[JackBurton]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

Is this some kind of a news flash?

And 4k speakers will slap around Salk as well....

8k speakers will do that too....

Where does it end. What kind of difference are we talking about? Price to performance ratio only gets smaller as you keep spending.

No, that's the problem with you, you don't understand. Salk SongTowers compare VERY favorably to speakers costing much more ($5k+). A higher priced speaker doesn't necessarily make it the better speaker.

How about this v, why don't you just bow out of this thread. It sounds like you're posting just to see yourself post with really no real knowledge on the topic. It's just coming off as a bad case of sour grapes.

[Pacfanweb]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

Yea cause you know, your speakers and audio system has to be worth at least $5000 in order to be able to post here, or care about sound.

So you got your panties wet because this thread is exactly about people like you?

The point that you've obviously missed is, this is a high-end audio thread, on the Audio/Video board.

Nowhere have I said that someone "needs" to have a 5k system to "care about sound".

However, it's clear by your purchase of 100 dollar speakers that you DON'T care about sound, at least..not that much. Or you don't have very discerning ears. Or you don't have the disposable income, or are simply cheap, or whatever.


But whatever the reason, you don't care enough about sound quality to put any more money than what you have spent.

And again, there's nothing wrong with that. If you think your Polks sound great and you don't feel the need to spend anymore, fine. Enjoy them. Just know that some people DO think that it's worth spending more to buy speakers that absolutely sound better than any 100 dollar Polk, and there's nothing wrong with that, either.

Just like there's nothing wrong with someone who desires great sound, and has the money to fulfill that desire spending a crap load of money on better speakers. Buying a 3000 dollar speaker might not get you as much improvement as going from your 100 dollar Polks to my 1000 dollar Definitives, but who cares if someone who can afford to wants to buy a set?

That's what and who the high-end stuff is for. Sure, there's diminishing returns. That's the case with everything. Sound, speed, video.....the better you want, the more you spend, and the more you proportionally have to spend to get small increases as you climb that ladder.

I'm not going to bash someone who wants to spend 5k for a Sharp Elite 70" TV. It might be just a hair better than a 65" Panasonic Plasma. Not worth the extra 3 grand to me, but if someone else thinks it is, go for it. But I'm not going to sit there if I had a 65" Toshiba LCD and claim there's not that much difference and it's not worth the money, either. That's basically what you're doing.