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Old 03-29-2011, 07:19 AM   #1
rudeguy
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Default How would history have changed if Hitler hadn't killed Jews?

I watch too much Military Channel and always wonder this. What if Hitler hadn't killed/persecuted Jews? IIRC, some of the most important scientists involved in the atom bomb defected from Germany. Imagine how quickly Britain would have surrendered if Hitler had the a-bomb.

Beyond that, one of his main problems towards the end of the war was the lack of able bodied soldiers. 5 million more soldiers and factory workers surely would have helped his cause.

Then finally, how would history have regarded him without the slaughtering of the Jews?
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:22 AM   #2
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I think forbes 400 list would be all Jews.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:33 AM   #3
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Interesting question... I have also read that many of the nuclear scientists of the age were jews that lived in Germany. So it stands to reason that if Hitler had not attacked the Jews in Germany that he could have utilized the Jewish, homegrown German scientists to develop nuclear technology. Germany had plenty of other scientists though who were not Jewish so who knows. I would need to see a list of Jewish scientists that left Germany who were involved with the development of nuclear technology.

On a different note, if Hitler had not persecuted the Jews, he would not have been fighting a civil war. Capturing, processing and killing Jews (as reprehensible as that is to type) took a toll on the German war machine. Hitler had to devote personel and resources to what Hitler called "the Jewish problem".

I have an interest in WWII history as well and I have often pondered why Hitler and the German people chose to persecute and then try to destroy an entire race of human beings. My thought has been that Germans are a fiercely proud, nationalistic and independant people. After Germany was soundly defeated by the Allies in WWI, the German people needed a scape goat. Germans could not accept that it was their own actions which gave them WWI and the near economic collopase which existed after WWI. Hitler was nothing more than a lightening rod for German disontent. Unfortunately, the Jews were an easy target.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:41 AM   #4
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I think WWII would have been pretty much the same.
I guess Israel wouldn't be around though?
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:42 AM   #5
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Hitler was a racist fascist dictator who persecuted everyone who wasn't pure Aryan. Whether he killed the Jews or not many would have fled the country. Especially the more highly educated ones who had the means to leave and could look forward to being treated better elsewhere. He also considered a lot of physics like Einstein's Relativity to be "communistic" and would never have supported such people. In other words, he was complete nut who was so incompetent that at one point when the allies had the chance to assassinate him they let him live so that he could force Germany to loose the war just that much faster.

Of course, if he wasn't a racist fascist then he never would have risen to power or tried to conquer the world.

Last edited by wuliheron; 03-29-2011 at 07:47 AM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:04 AM   #6
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,... who was so incompetent that at one point when the allies had the chance to assassinate him they let him live so that he could force Germany to loose the war just that much faster.
,... all the while more allied soldiers continued to die. Yes, Hitler was incompetent.

On a On Topic note; I think things would have played out as is, war wise. Israel would exist, but it would have been formed much later. And, I am more than certain the USA would continue being Israel's meat sheild.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:25 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by rudeguy View Post
I watch too much Military Channel and always wonder this. What if Hitler hadn't killed/persecuted Jews? IIRC, some of the most important scientists involved in the atom bomb defected from Germany. Imagine how quickly Britain would have surrendered if Hitler had the a-bomb.

Beyond that, one of his main problems towards the end of the war was the lack of able bodied soldiers. 5 million more soldiers and factory workers surely would have helped his cause.

Then finally, how would history have regarded him without the slaughtering of the Jews?
If Hitler hadn't killed the Jews, he probably would be viewed favorably. I also think that asshole Churchill would be viewed in a disfavorable light, like he should be, considering the fate of European Jewry was ultimately in his hands.

Hitler actually didn't want war with Britain; Britain was the aggressor, as usual. See Patrick J Buchanan's "Churchill, Hitler, and an Unnecessary War". Also, google "Hitler didn't want war"
(http://www.henrymakow.com/000369.html) and you should come across a Jewish author saying the same Patrick J Buchanan did.

On a side note, Hitler probably would've been successful had he not attacked Poland. He sealed his fate when invaded Poland like a dumbass, even though he wasn't a dumbass. You have to be pretty bright to be able to do all that damage.

Last edited by Anarchist420; 03-29-2011 at 08:28 AM.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:43 AM   #8
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If Hitler hadn't killed the Jews, he probably would be viewed favorably. I also think that asshole Churchill would be viewed in a disfavorable light, like he should be, considering the fate of European Jewry was ultimately in his hands.

Hitler actually didn't want war with Britain; Britain was the aggressor, as usual. See Patrick J Buchanan's "Churchill, Hitler, and an Unnecessary War". Also, google "Hitler didn't want war"
(http://www.henrymakow.com/000369.html) and you should come across a Jewish author saying the same Patrick J Buchanan did.

On a side note, Hitler probably would've been successful had he not attacked Poland. He sealed his fate when invaded Poland like a dumbass, even though he wasn't a dumbass. You have to be pretty bright to be able to do all that damage.
Are you really that much of an idiot?

France and England made it very clear that attacking Poland would bring them into war with Germany so Hitler knew what he was doing.

If China was to invade Canada and we went to their defense would it be okay for the Chinese to claim that they didn't want a war with the US?
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:50 AM   #9
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Back on topic.

1. Germany still would have lost the war, but it may have taken a little longer.

2. Germany still would have not had a chance to get to the a-bomb. They didn't have the economic base to get there. The Manhattan Project cost $20 billion in 1996 dollars which is almost as much as we spent on small arms. Germany could not have spent that much due to their smaller economy.
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A total of four weapons (the Trinity gadget, Little Boy, Fat Man, and one more unused weapon) were produced by the end of 1945, making the average cost per bomb around $500 million in 1945 dollars. By comparison, the total price by the end of 1945 was about 60% of the total cost spent on all other bombs, mines, and grenades produced; 80% of all small arms materiel (not including ammunition); and 31% of the cost of all tanks produced, all during the same time period
3. On a positive note every internet argument wouldn't end with someone being called a Nazi
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:51 AM   #10
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How would history have changed if Hitler hadn't killed Jews?
No flight from Europe, no Israel, less US meddling and demonization in the Middle East? Think September 11th would have even happened? If not... think of all the resources we'd have to throw lavishly at bailouts. Wall-street would be in even 'better' shape than it is today.

Bush would have quite a different place in history, McCain would have won the election without the backlash?
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:57 AM   #11
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Hitler didnt order the attack stopped in hope of peace. His commanders wanted it stopped so as to move more troops and equipment up to prevent a break out.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:01 AM   #12
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Germany had a nuclear program. But their aim and goal was for their submarine fleet. Not bombs.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:26 AM   #13
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Without hatred persecution of the jews you may as well forget the nazi party ever existed.

Chances are better the german socialist party would have succeeded and imagine a red russia and red germany together..... would have been a really interesting cold war
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:33 AM   #14
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,... all the while more allied soldiers continued to die. Yes, Hitler was incompetent.

And he got what was coming to him.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:39 AM   #15
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No flight from Europe, no Israel, less US meddling and demonization in the Middle East? Think September 11th would have even happened? If not... think of all the resources we'd have to throw lavishly at bailouts. Wall-street would be in even 'better' shape than it is today.

Bush would have quite a different place in history, McCain would have won the election without the backlash?
The flight from Europe and settlement of Jews in then-Palestine began in the 1800's due to general persecution throughout Europe and Russia. However history might have been very different - if the UN did not call for the creation of the state of Israel, any number of possibly events could have unfolded. Either side could have kicked the other out entirely, or they could all be living together in relative peace, or even remained a British territory.

Note however that this has no connection to 9/11 , Islam has been attacking the west since its inception. The main motivation for Bin Laden was that he protested our presence in and economic partnership with Saudi Arabia.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:52 AM   #16
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I love what if historical scenarios. World war two was close enough for comfort, many allied victories came against the odds. Give the germans any more advantage we would probably all be speaking german.
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:57 AM   #17
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Hitler did not care about atomic bombs. Other areas might have been slightly more advanced, however.

The holocaust would have still happened, but would have focused much more on other groups, like Gypsies (who were being exterminated as well).

Israel would likely not exist.

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Give the germans any more advantage we would probably all be speaking german.
Maybe continental Europe. If Germany won, We would have had a Cold War with Germany and their Fascist block rather than Russia and their Communist Block. Hitler would have probably made peace with the UK, on favorable terms, rather than invading them after the Battle of Britain.

America would have still kicked Japan's ass and brought East Asia into our sphere of influence, with The Soviet Union out of the way, China would have become much like Japan is today after an Allied victory and Chiang Kai-shek finishing the Communists off (who lost their only supporter after a German victory on the Eastern Front).
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:01 AM   #18
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Are you really that much of an idiot?

France and England made it very clear that attacking Poland would bring them into war with Germany so Hitler knew what he was doing.
Hitler had a hardcore problem with amphetamine addiction, so he probably thought Britain would be a cake walk. And Russia. And USA. And France.... well 1 out of 4 ain't bad


And yes Hitler would be seen a lot better. Nobody remembers Kaiser Wilhelm and he basically did the same thing 25 years earlier.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:06 AM   #19
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Hitler was months away from completing a V Rocket which would have been able to hit the East Coast.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:07 AM   #20
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I love what if historical scenarios. World war two was close enough for comfort, many allied victories came against the odds. Give the germans any more advantage we would probably all be speaking german.
Me too. WWII had so many little things that changed the whole swing of the war and in turn changed history forever.


Back on point though. The full scale persecution of Jews happened AFTER Hitler came to power. He didn't come to power because of his views but power allowed him to act on them. So saying that Hitler wouldn't have been in power without them is completely false. He came to power because Germany was in full scale depression after WWI and he offered (and came through with) a way out of it.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:21 AM   #21
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Back on point though. The full scale persecution of Jews happened AFTER Hitler came to power. He didn't come to power because of his views but power allowed him to act on them. So saying that Hitler wouldn't have been in power without them is completely false. He came to power because Germany was in full scale depression after WWI and he offered (and came through with) a way out of it.





And no the war was not close. The Germans had to defeat the Soviets then defeat the Americans. NEITHER of them were beaten. Even Britain survived the war, and that's not really a big country.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:37 AM   #22
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And no the war was not close. The Germans had to defeat the Soviets then defeat the Americans. NEITHER of them were beaten. Even Britain survived the war, and that's not really a big country.
I don't think he said the war was close, but there were many battles, and points in the war that were very close, that turned out to be monumental turning points in the war as a whole.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:07 AM   #23
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I love what if historical scenarios. World war two was close enough for comfort, many allied victories came against the odds. Give the germans any more advantage we would probably all be speaking german.
Not even close.

Even if the Jews and Nazis had been best friends and worked together Germany would have still lost the war in the long run. It would have just taken longer and cost a lot more lives.

By 1942 the US gdp was 3 times that of Germany. There was no way that Germany could win a war against a country with three times the industry and twice it's population. Especially considering that our home land was 100% free from attack during the whole war while Germany was pounded to bits.

The only reason so many of the battles were close is due to better Germany equipment and the fact that Germany was fighting a defensive war which makes it MUCH harder for the other side to win.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:08 AM   #24
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I'd probably have a lot more cousins.
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:12 AM   #25
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America would have still kicked Japan's ass and brought East Asia into our sphere of influence, with The Soviet Union out of the way, China would have become much like Japan is today after an Allied victory and Chiang Kai-shek finishing the Communists off (who lost their only supporter after a German victory on the Eastern Front).
We got lucky with Japan. I forget the name of the battle but Japan was out gunning us pretty bad. By a fluke, one of the Japanese Admirals ordered their fighters to land and let the pilots rest before letting reserve pilots up in the air. That left 3 or 4 of their carriers without defenses and we pounced. Without that victory it would have been a very different war.
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