Catholic Church and human rights issues

[DixyCrat]

If you are gay then you cannot say you are catholic as the bible clearly states its not allowed.

The bible says nothing of the requirements for joining the roman catholic church; And the ONLY requirement for joining the Holy Catholic Church (which is every christian, no matter domination) is:

That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Almost all of the founding members of Christianity considered themselves Jews and Jesus teaches that we are adopted into the family of Abraham and Issac.

[JEDIYoda]

Originally Posted by Oyeve

Then he cannot call himself Catholic. Its like the "Jews for Jesus" group. If you believe that jesus was the savior then you cannot call yourself jewish. If you are gay then you cannot say you are catholic as the bible clearly states its not allowed.

This, and 1000s of other reasons, is why I cannot and will not ever adhere to any religion.

Actually he can and does call himself catholic.....you say he cannot -- he says he can -- IMO he is correct......I didn`t say politically correct -- i just said correct!!

[Craig234]

An important issue is that apart from the merit of any of these issues, the Catholic Church is highly resistant to change.

The Pope at the time told his friend Galileo that he knew he was right, as I hear it, but that for political reasons there was no way he could allow Galileo to promote his ideas.

Hundreds of years later, the Church apologized. That's an inertia against change - on women, on gays, on masturbation and birth control - that's not about the issues.

Governments are intended to change with the times and votes (conservatives aside), not religion.

Of course, when you agree with the church on something where it stands against a popular movement, you're probably very grateful for that.

Even if it's again more about inertia than the merits. For example, people against capital punishment tend to appreciate the church's moral opposition to it.

Because of these issues, the church membership is greatly shifting to third world countries.

Unfortunately, these are often less educated people who sometimes embrace views we've come to find abhorrent - such as the countries who jail and kill gays, which while not something the Church pushes, is something that is partly in common with their teachings, and which at least one US evangelical church has exploited in Uganda.

[Oyeve]

Originally Posted by JEDIYoda

Actually he can and does call himself catholic.....you say he cannot -- he says he can -- IMO he is correct......I didn`t say politically correct -- i just said correct!!

I agree.

[randomrogue]

The amount of churches in southern Africa was one of the bigger surprises. When you roll into a city churches, in many cases, dominate the real estate on the streets heading to the center of town. You might see Church, house, house, house, Church, Store, house, gas, Church, car mechanic, Church, etc for a couple kilometers. I'm going to assume it's a legacy of forced conversion.

What was the Church's position on the colonization of Africa and the subsequent rape of Africa?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3516965.stm

If you want to read something disgusting here is a letter that King Leopold of Belgium apparently wrote to Christian missionaries being sent to Africa. I'd love to know if someone can verify it's authenticity. I struggle to believe that it was actually written but then again this King was one of the most brutal in history.

Belgium justified their behavior in Africa by morality and economic necessity.

The poem, The White Man's Burden, illustrates a common rationalization among the Europeans for their exploitation of Africa; they believed that it was their righteous duty to civilize the African cultures. This poem reduces the African people to being "half devil and half child" -- the Africans were viewed as sub-human by many. After establishing that these peoples were sub-human, the Belgians believed themselves to justified in treating them as such.

Reverends, Fathers and Dear Compatriots:

The task that is given to fulfill is very delicate and requires much tact. You will go certainly to evangelize, but your evangelization must inspire above all Belgium interests. Your principal objective in our mission in the Congo is never to teach the ******s to know God, this they know already. They speak and submit to a Mungu, one Nzambi, one Nzakomba, and what else I don’t know. They know that to kill, to sleep with someone else’s wife, to lie and to insult is bad. Have courage to admit it; you are not going to teach them what they know already. Your essential role is to facilitate the task of administrators and industrials, which means you will go to interpret the gospel in the way it will be the best to protect your interests in that part of the world. For these things, you have to keep watch on disinteresting our savages from the richness that is plenty [in their underground. To avoid that, they get interested in it, and make you murderous] competition and dream one day to overthrow you.

Your knowledge of the gospel will allow you to find texts ordering, and encouraging your followers to love poverty, like “Happier are the poor because they will inherit the heaven” and, “It’s very difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God.” You have to detach from them and make them disrespect everything which gives courage to affront us. I make reference to their Mystic System and their war fetish – warfare protection – which they pretend not to want to abandon, and you must do everything in your power to make it disappear.

Your action will be directed essentially to the younger ones, for they won’t revolt when the recommendation of the priest is contradictory to their parent’s teachings. The children have to learn to obey what the missionary recommends, who is the father of their soul. You must singularly insist on their total submission and obedience, avoid developing the spirit in the schools, teach students to read and not to reason. There, dear patriots, are some of the principles that you must apply. You will find many other books, which will be given to you at the end of this conference. Evangelize the ******s so that they stay forever in submission to the white colonialists, so they never revolt against the restraints they are undergoing. Recite every day – “Happy are those who are weeping because the kingdom of God is for them."

Convert always the blacks by using the whip. Keep their women in nine months of submission to work freely for us. Force them to pay you in sign of recognition-goats, chicken or eggs-every time you visit their villages. And make sure that ******s never become rich. Sing every day that it’s impossible for the rich to enter heaven. Make them pay tax each week at Sunday mass. Use the money supposed for the poor, to build flourishing business centres. Institute a confessional system, which allows you to be good detectives denouncing any black that has a different consciousness contrary to that of the decision-maker. Teach the ******s to forget their heroes and to adore only ours. Never present a chair to a black that comes to visit you. Don’t give him more than one cigarette. Never invite him for dinner even if he gives you a chicken every time you arrive at his house.

Here was a letter sent to the King by an American to report on his findings of the status of the colony. It's a long read but worth it. It's got cannibalism, torture, rape, murder, and everything that would make a top notch Saw movie.

http://www.blackpast.org/?q=george-w...old-congo-1890

Interesting enough it doesn't mention the constant disfigurement by cutting off hands and feet of those who didn't meet their rubber plantation quotas.




The Church is constantly on the wrong side of History. Constantly. Yet people stay members.

[Sophitia]

They condemn women of the faith right here in America for no other reason than having the audacity to think that they are not invalidated from having equal status with their male counterparts because of what they have (or rather, don't have) inbetween the legs. Much like with Mormons and Amish and numerous other religions, they try to condition women to keep their mouths shut and let the men take charge and do all the talking, chastising them when they don't. The church has never been the source of progressive thinking. They maintained that Earth was the center of the universe in a time when we were landing men on the moon.

[Charles Kozierok]

I have split the doctrinal discussion to a new thread.

I also started a stickied thread about religious discussions that I'd like people to read and comment on.

[Rob M.]

Originally Posted by Charles Kozierok

I have split the doctrinal discussion to a new thread.

I also started a stickied thread about religious discussions that I'd like people to read and comment on.

Appreciate it, C!

[Craig234]

Originally Posted by Charles Kozierok

I have split the doctrinal discussion to a new thread.

I also started a stickied thread about religious discussions that I'd like people to read and comment on.

Doesn't making a a 'sticky thread' violate some Catholic rules?

[DixyCrat]

Originally Posted by Craig234

Doesn't making a a 'sticky thread' violate some Catholic rules?

Heheheheh.

Sorry.

[busydude]

Originally Posted by Blackjack200

I think the questions you're asking get more to human nature than the Catholic Church.

I think you raise a very valid point. One of the things that can be clearly observed is that more people who are in power tend to be corrupt. This raises another question - Does power attract the corrupt or more corrupt people become powerful than honest people? I am not going to answer the question, but it sure will be interesting to discuss.

Humanity, in general, isn't fair or perfect. When it comes to Catholic Church their systematic sweeping-the-allegations-under-the-rug attitude is a bit disconcerting. You see, the Pope and the Catholic church consider themselves to be beyond human and this is where the argument of blaming humanity falls flat. They are holier than thou, and the laws that apply to humans don't apply to them(at least in their mind) and this is the most cynical aspect of the whole organization. They simply transfer the bishop to another place and leave it at that, they don't try to dwell on it much.

[randomrogue]

So how hard would it be for a Catholic to simply go "Hey, this Church is wrong and I want to worship God without it"? They wouldn't be the first to do so.

Protestantism is a faction of Christianity that split from the Catholic Church. In the 1500's Luther and Calvin split with the Church and started movements in many of the European nations. The Church of England split from the Church around the same time.

There are alternatives. Even if I personally mentioned the bibles support of slavery above you're getting into a much better territory for worship by at least getting away from the Pope and the Catholic church. There's still a long way to go but I'm just throwing this one out there since it's amazing how many followers the Pope still has despite alternatives that millions took at one point when they converted in mass to Lutheranism, Baptism, etc.