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Old 05-03-2012, 03:50 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantlegz View Post
I've heard nothing but good things about orange triad, I'm going to pick some up in a few days when my current multi runs out.
I see great reviews everywhere about them but it's hard for me to justify spending that much on a multivitamin.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:04 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic View Post
1) Again with the insults. Do you have no other method of expression? Fucktard this, and dickhead that. Really.
2) My goal is to provide as much information as possible. What is your goal?
3) I could certainly be a bigger asshole. I could be like you, for example.
4) It's sad that what matters more to you is not what is being told you, but how it's told.
You know you're coming off as a complete asshole, right? This is a forum, not WebMD. It's up for everyone else to do their own due diligence, prick.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:11 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic View Post
The amount of misinformation in this thread is just frustrating. Most men don't need iron supplementation because they don't bleed 5-7 days each month. In fact, even most women don't need iron supplementation; even most women with menorrhagia don't need iron supplementation. Only vegetarians/vegans, pregnant women, and people with huge amounts of bleeding loss during menstruation (around the order of 80-100mL per day) I would say require regular iron supplementation. Nobody else actually needs it - meat is a very rich source of iron, and the body is very efficient at retaining it. The difference between male and female required intakes of iron is almost purely due to menstrual loss - post-menopausal women require a similar amount of iron to similar-age men, which is also the same as the intake for 20-year old men. No, taking a multivitamin every other day won't actually make a difference. If you aren't deficient, you don't need it anyway, and if you are deficient, then taking a multivitamin won't help that much either.

What's even more frustrating, though, is that you guys all take this information completely uncritically and don't take the time to quality-control this information that currently has an open highway into your head. I expect that with whatever I say, someone will do background reading into it and correct me if I'm wrong - this helps me as much as everyone else. Whereas you guys are just sitting there pouring information into each other's heads with no clue and no care as to whether it's the elixir of life or radioactive sludge.
You just phrased what I was implying in more words. I could have been more literal and stated that men accumulate more iron than women due to this, and we already take in far enough iron just by diet alone.

More iron = more free radical acceleration.

What the hell did you think I meant?
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:16 AM   #29
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Eat fruit & vegetables, screw vitamin pills.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:08 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Mr. Pedantic View Post
The amount of misinformation in this thread is just frustrating. Most men don't need iron supplementation because they don't bleed 5-7 days each month. In fact, even most women don't need iron supplementation; even most women with menorrhagia don't need iron supplementation. Only vegetarians/vegans, pregnant women, and people with huge amounts of bleeding loss during menstruation (around the order of 80-100mL per day) I would say require regular iron supplementation. Nobody else actually needs it - meat is a very rich source of iron, and the body is very efficient at retaining it. The difference between male and female required intakes of iron is almost purely due to menstrual loss - post-menopausal women require a similar amount of iron to similar-age men, which is also the same as the intake for 20-year old men. No, taking a multivitamin every other day won't actually make a difference. If you aren't deficient, you don't need it anyway, and if you are deficient, then taking a multivitamin won't help that much either.

What's even more frustrating, though, is that you guys all take this information completely uncritically and don't take the time to quality-control this information that currently has an open highway into your head. I expect that with whatever I say, someone will do background reading into it and correct me if I'm wrong - this helps me as much as everyone else. Whereas you guys are just sitting there pouring information into each other's heads with no clue and no care as to whether it's the elixir of life or radioactive sludge.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:10 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Awkward View Post
You just phrased what I was implying in more words. I could have been more literal and stated that men accumulate more iron than women due to this, and we already take in far enough iron just by diet alone.

More iron = more free radical acceleration.

What the hell did you think I meant?
It seemed like you meant men had a magic increased store of iron either within muscle tissue or organs or something like that. You may have known the explanation, but it came off like men just stored more iron, rather than they just don't lose much iron. I just wanted to clarify the reasoning for everybody because, well, that's what I'm here for. Either way, the end-product of your statement was right - men don't need to supplement iron.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:36 PM   #32
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I've used orange triad for the last 2 years. I used to take the full dosage 6/day but went down to 3/day since I felt I was getting a decent amount of vitamins and minerals from food alone. Based on my own experience and opinion, the price premium is not worth it. It's a great multi but I never felt the joint complex(glucosamine) was effective and my digestion has been fine before using it, it'll be fine without. So I have since switched to the Mega Men sport just this month since they are cheap and using the full dose of 2 pills/day. Not only are they easier to take due to the 2 pill serving but the increased vitamin D of 1600IU has improved my wellness. I actually feel the difference since switching... or it could just be due to the weather getting better outside. Who knows.

Also thinking about supplementing more vitamin D on top of the 1600 IU... maybe another 1000IU/day? Thoughts?
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:43 PM   #33
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Also thinking about supplementing more vitamin D on top of the 1600 IU... maybe another 1000IU/day? Thoughts?
I've taken six thousand IU a day for a couple years without dying. But I don't get to see the light of day much down in the hole I work in.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #34
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I've taken six thousand IU a day for a couple years without dying. But I don't get to see the light of day much down in the hole I work in.

I know there are a lot of opinions on dosage but everyone does agree that the RDA is outdated. I rather be on the low end until something like 10000 IUs is universally agreed upon. Even though I work indoors, I live about 15 mins on foot from work so I walk to work everyday as well as take a stroll home for my lunch break. I also run about 3-4 times a week outdoors so I think I get plenty of sunlight... not so much during winter though after the DST switch then most of the commute and runs happens after sundown. But this is why I'm leaning more on the low end as far as supplementation goes. I live in NYC.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:25 PM   #35
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Eat fruit & vegetables, screw vitamin pills.
The problem comes from when you are really training, you are eating a lot usually already and not always can you pack crap.

If our foods were not processed, full of drugs, and other crap it's be easier to get all the nutrients we needed.

Sure one can scale up their grocery costs if they have a whole food/organic type market in their area, but many don't have the budget nor option.

A good multi each day is good insurance you aren't missing anything. If your diet is sound otherwise, you don't need to get crazy. GNC Megamen is a good value on sale, Costco has good products.

I personally like taking an extra B-Complex, B12 and some others.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:04 PM   #36
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Iron's an interest to me because I've needed to take an iron supplement while on a raw diet. I wasn't getting enough and my rls (restless leg) was brutal. Supplemental iron helped quite a bit.

However I've had to expand my diet to increase calories/protein due to tough workouts almost every day. And also to maintain more body fat (was losing too much), I've added more cooked protein like fish, chicken, occasional beef (and good oils and carbs like rice and corn.)

At this point I get enough iron but not always enough raw shakes (some laziness), so that's where the concern for a multivitamin comes in for me. I don't eat any processed food, breads, boxed cereals, milks etc. to benefit from 'enriched' ingredients that add vitamins to the diet, aside from a protein supplement, which doesn't add much.

Btw, sorry guys for helping to take this thread to a low direction earlier. This isn't off topic and I'll be more mindful to focus on being constructive, which is one of the things that makes Health and Fitness a good helpful forum.
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Old 05-06-2012, 05:17 AM   #37
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Ive always used the 'finest natural' multi from Walgreens with good results, along with the same brand fish oils.

If you pay attention to the sales ad from walgreens they run buy one get one free on this brand and others like every other week or every three weeks(the brands rotate with one being on sale every week).
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Old 05-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #38
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It's hard to go wrong with any main brand multi.

www.drumlib.com is an excellent 'pricewatch' for supplements.

Also keep in mind many multis 'cheap' out on the more expensive ingredients.

I have found it more economical to supplement a multi with other vitamins than to go for an elite one. You are usually taking more than one pill at that point.

The Animal Paks are a great convenience, esp. if you travel; but not a bang for buck at all.
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by jjsole View Post
I'm researching multivitamins and found this thread, good info. I also found these multivitamin reviews that might be helpful for some:

http://supplementreviews.com/categor...multi-vitamins

I think I'm going to try Opti-men.
I've been taking opti-men for a while now, but then I read this thread which suggests that it is one of the multivitamin brands that isn't that great.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136356991

I've been taking it for a while, but like with any multivitamin I take I don't know what it is really doing for me. Would choosing a "good" (which probably also relates to expensive) multi really make a difference?
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:27 AM   #40
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I've been taking opti-men for a while now, but then I read this thread which suggests that it is one of the multivitamin brands that isn't that great.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=136356991

I've been taking it for a while, but like with any multivitamin I take I don't know what it is really doing for me. Would choosing a "good" (which probably also relates to expensive) multi really make a difference?
I'll find out...

Some multi's haven't worked well for me in the past (headaches, fatigue, or fogginess), like centrum. Could be any number of reasons why, including my physiology, but it's worth a shot on a new one.

I read the post in your link, and it makes sense, altho since there are many factors, I don't see the feedback a purchase-killer.

Quote:
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so uhh....opti-men is ****e?
Vitamin B12 (As Cyanocobalamin).
Magnesium (As Magnesium Oxide, Aspartate).
Pharmaceutical Glaze.

Yep. It's crap.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:42 AM   #41
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I guess while we've got a thread on this, how does everyone feel about this:
http://www.gnc.com/product/index.jsp?productId=4190906

I pick it up at Rite Aid and I think it's a few bucks cheaper there too. Sometimes a good deal with a Buy One get one Half Off or some such, from time to time.

I'm not necessarily looking to spend less on vitamins, but I don't really want to spend more. The one pack a day route (total of 5 pills in this pack) does help me remember to take them every day (as I've always been terrible about taking daily vitamins and stuff). I just take these with my breakfast so that 1) I don't have stomach issues, and 2) it's a great routine that I find difficult to forget.

But are there better products that have a better mix of vitamins and supplements? Active 24yo male, fyi.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:51 AM   #42
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Bill Starr, a very strong guy advocated for a strong multi b/c you were lifting heavy and needed higher doses than your average USA slob. He had no science to back it up, but many people followed that lead.

I still think regular ole food is best, but I still take one! However I just take a cheap Kirkland one. That and fish oil seems to be it for me. I stopped protein powder last week too, I just don't trust much. /shiftyeyes

Meaning my meat and fish grocery costs have risen dramatically!
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Old 05-12-2012, 02:47 PM   #43
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He had no science to back it up, but many people followed that lead.
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=Broscience

I'm partial to Mr. Pedantic's point. There is little compelling evidence to take a multi. Personally, I've tinkered with them on and off for a couple of decades, more time off than on due to this. Once in a blue moon I get inspired that maybe some vitamin deficiency is in me and if resolved I could be healthier, but there's little more to this than wishful thinking.

AFAIK vitamins have been studied extensively, with many studies, and there is currently no recommendation from any major governmental body recommending the average otherwise healthy joe, who's not been diagnosed with a deficiency, take them. Now, the rest of us can swear up and down about how awesome they are, but we must admit the risk that some of that swearing is placebo.

Another common supplement is fish oil and from what I gather there is a little more positive indication to take this.

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Old 05-12-2012, 10:04 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=Broscience

I'm partial to Mr. Pedantic's point. There is little compelling evidence to take a multi. Personally, I've tinkered with them on and off for a couple of decades, more time off than on due to this. Once in a blue moon I get inspired that maybe some vitamin deficiency is in me and if resolved I could be healthier, but there's little more to this than wishful thinking.

AFAIK vitamins have been studied extensively, with many studies, and there is currently no recommendation from any major governmental body recommending the average otherwise healthy joe, who's not been diagnosed with a deficiency, take them. Now, the rest of us can swear up and down about how awesome they are, but we must admit the risk that some of that swearing is placebo.

Another common supplement is fish oil and from what I gather there is a little more positive indication to take this.
Omega 3s are extremely important, and from the cardiovascular standpoint alone, EPA and DHA (fish oils) are highly beneficial. A ton of evidence (though immature) points to omega 3s in general having a lot of benefits physiologically and neurologically, specifically when added to the average American diet.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:49 PM   #45
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orange triad
best multivitamin
thank me later
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:18 PM   #46
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All this talk about Orange Triad has me looking into it...

first off, 45 6-pill servings. They say twice a day. Is that 2x3pills, or two full 6-pill servings?
I assume it's the former, as the latter seems to introduce an insane amount of lipid-based vitamins that cannot be good for you in the long run.

Hell, I'm already slightly curious on a more "professional" opinion of 10,000 IU of Vitamin A. That, when combined with what you'll naturally get from your daily diet, seems to be an excessive amount.

And for those of you who are fans of Orange Triad, are you pretty hardcore with training regimens? I've slacked on my running lately but have been pushing myself with a strength-training regimen and will soon be combining my original run regimen/goals with my strength plans. I figure more supplements, the "right" ones, will help ensure I'm not in pain every second of every day, and hopefully allow me to amp up both of my training plans and improve all around.

If it's $50 for 45 days, that's not too bad imho, considering that's barely more than a buck a day for vitamins. My current ones are just shy of a buck a day, when averaged with random deals. But in general, with no deals, it's $1/day exactly.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:32 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppel View Post
http://www.urbandictionary.com/defin...erm=Broscience

I'm partial to Mr. Pedantic's point. There is little compelling evidence to take a multi. Personally, I've tinkered with them on and off for a couple of decades, more time off than on due to this. Once in a blue moon I get inspired that maybe some vitamin deficiency is in me and if resolved I could be healthier, but there's little more to this than wishful thinking.

AFAIK vitamins have been studied extensively, with many studies, and there is currently no recommendation from any major governmental body recommending the average otherwise healthy joe, who's not been diagnosed with a deficiency, take them. Now, the rest of us can swear up and down about how awesome they are, but we must admit the risk that some of that swearing is placebo.

Another common supplement is fish oil and from what I gather there is a little more positive indication to take this.
Many people that get bloodwork done are finding recommendations for Vitamin D especially today, also B and Fish Oil are very popular recommendations. If a woman Calcium is almost always recommended with our dairy-poor diets in most areas of the country.

Most people have inadequate diets due to the processing the foods undergo. Taking a good multi can bring some of the important stuff back.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:38 AM   #48
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All this talk about Orange Triad has me looking into it...

first off, 45 6-pill servings. They say twice a day. Is that 2x3pills, or two full 6-pill servings?
I assume it's the former, as the latter seems to introduce an insane amount of lipid-based vitamins that cannot be good for you in the long run.

Hell, I'm already slightly curious on a more "professional" opinion of 10,000 IU of Vitamin A. That, when combined with what you'll naturally get from your daily diet, seems to be an excessive amount.

And for those of you who are fans of Orange Triad, are you pretty hardcore with training regimens? I've slacked on my running lately but have been pushing myself with a strength-training regimen and will soon be combining my original run regimen/goals with my strength plans. I figure more supplements, the "right" ones, will help ensure I'm not in pain every second of every day, and hopefully allow me to amp up both of my training plans and improve all around.

If it's $50 for 45 days, that's not too bad imho, considering that's barely more than a buck a day for vitamins. My current ones are just shy of a buck a day, when averaged with random deals. But in general, with no deals, it's $1/day exactly.
You are paying a lot for a "joint-complex" in that pill. I swear by MSM and similar products...many get no results from it. It takes a while to build up a therapeutic level though so many probably give up prior to getting there as it's expensive.

If you are getting joint pains, it may be helpful to try. I stick with Osteo-BiFlex (edit: Osteo-BiFlex not Cosequin, Cosequin was my dog's brand of this )as it's the only one that actually was studied and tested and I have found not much more money than the generic clones out there. I will take some MSM with it as well as it's a pure Glucosamine/Chondroitin product. Looks like Osteo-BiFlex has added a plus MSM product as well to their lineup.

http://osteoarthritis.about.com/od/a...teo_biflex.htm
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:33 AM   #49
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I did take 5000 IU Vit D3 for about 3 months and had to get blood tested for something unrelated but asked my doc to toss in the VitD panel portion.

It came back at a 91? I can't remember the units or relativity of the number right now(out of town), but he was walking on air at how happy that number made him, and this was in the dead of winter and I don't drink milk. I'll pull the blood test later this week.

In any case, I believe that sometime even the FDA will recommend D supplementation, or rather talk about it like they talk about fish oil/fresh fish benefits. Those damn Inuit and their no heart problems.
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