The Hours Teachers Work, and other thoughts on American elementary education

[SpatiallyAware]

Originally Posted by ArchAngel777

My wife is a teacher and does everything by the book. She invests more time and effort into teaching her 2nd graders than our own children who 5 and 6. In fact, she will work long hours and often comes home after I put the kids down for the night. The thing is, if I didn't know my wife better, I'd wonder what she was really doing. But the fact is, she really is putting in ridiculous hours and continues to bring work home, so she can put even more time into it.

When I ask her why she feels the need to put in those hours, she says that is how long it takes and doing any less would be cutting corners... Of course, she is also OCD. Things have to be done her way. When she gets a substitute teacher, she spends 4 hours prepping that sub for take over for the day. I often think that the sub teacher probably looks it, laughs and throws it away.

Anyway... Just wanted to say that my wife is an extreme example of putting in too much effort and there are examples of teachers putting in the bare minimum. My wife is tenured, and has been for a long time, yet still doesn't cut corners. I dunno, I think every teacher is different. I just wish my wife would be willing to cut back some hours.

I wonder what she's doing so late every day. That is extremely unusual.


Teachers are, for the most part, paid a fair wage. I agree that the 'teachers working 60+ hour weeks' thing is a complete myth.

[ArchAngel777]

Originally Posted by SpatiallyAware

I wonder what she's doing so late every day. That is extremely unusual.


Teachers are, for the most part, paid a fair wage. I agree that the 'teachers working 60+ hour weeks' thing is a complete myth.

She does EVERYTHING by the book. That means she corrects every single paper, critiques the writing, writes notes on the students work, prepares for the next day. If glossing over a students work net 90% of the result for 10% of the time, she wouldn't do it still. She would do 100%, even at the cost of taking significantly more time (she lacks the concept of efficiency) Like I said, I know people have joked before... But the fact is, every time I drop in on her... She is working away in that classroom. In my wife's case, both me and her sister (psych major and social worker) believe she has POCD, which is actually different from OCD... and one of the main traits is that a person with POCD lacks efficiency because their standards are too high for themselves. My wife can't say 'good enough'... It has to be perfect. But you are completely correct, it is highly unusual for a teacher to put in the hours that she does.

[SpatiallyAware]

Originally Posted by ArchAngel777

She does EVERYTHING by the book. That means she corrects every single paper, critiques the writing, writes notes on the students, prepares for the next day. Like I said, I know people have joked before... But the fact is, every time I drop in on her... She is working away in that classroom.

Why can't she do that at home?

[ArchAngel777]

Originally Posted by SpatiallyAware

Why can't she do that at home?

She can and does 2 nights out of the 5 and on the weekends. I believe she finds me and the kids a distraction. But whether does the work at school or home is still an issue to me. Work is work and you gotta be able to say 'I have done enough today' and make sure you get some time to relax a bit.

[SpatiallyAware]

Originally Posted by ArchAngel777

She can and does 2 nights out of the 5 and on the weekends. I believe she finds me and the kids a distraction. But whether does the work at school or home is still an issue to me. Work is work and you gotta be able to say 'I have done enough today' and make sure you get some time to relax a bit.

I agree. Wish you the best in helping her realize that there should be a balance.

[Exterous]

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Survey found that teachers spent an average of 53 hours a week working

http://www.scholastic.com/primarysources/download.asp

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Another note, those teachers that teach subjects like advanced Sciences, Math, and Computers are typically payed much better than other subjects. Why? Less people that know those subjects are willing to teach them instead of just using their information to apply them to make more money.

So very wrong. You could have 5 classes of AP Calc and Physics or 5 classes of study hall (Or whatever PC name they are giving it this year) and you will make the same amount of money

[vidguru83]

I just had to reply to this thread because my wife is a teacher and she puts in 50+ hours a week in school work. No less either. Im sitting here in her class 2 1/2 hours after school while she grades. she doesn't want to give in to the half ass work other teachers do to get by. I feel sorry for her as apparently teachers nowadays have no support from their own schools much less from the parents.

We really need to start sending these kids who put in no effort out of school and or make them start paying out of their own dime if they want to be in school.

If this kind of half ass work by students and some teachers continue we are ffffed. Welcome China to the USA. You own us.

[Pantoot]

Originally Posted by Exterous

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Survey found that teachers spent an average of 53 hours a week working
http://www.scholastic.com/primarysources/download.asp
y

Of course, the very point of the OP is that teachers over report the hours they work.

Originally Posted by johnjohn320

My sister is an elementary school teacher, as are some old acquaintances from high school and college. One thing I've often heard them repeat is how deceptively long the hours they work are; that the school day itself is but a fraction of the time they put into their jobs every day.

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by Exterous

The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Survey found that teachers spent an average of 53 hours a week working

http://www.scholastic.com/primarysources/download.asp



So very wrong. You could have 5 classes of AP Calc and Physics or 5 classes of study hall (Or whatever PC name they are giving it this year) and you will make the same amount of money

Uhh what? No. I looked into being a teacher. Practically every school district where I am at pays premium bucks for Science, Math, and Computer teachers. Hell it's listed on most of their websites. Want to be an 8th grade music teacher? Look to start out at $30K a year at most. Want to be an 8th grade Computer Science Teacher? You'll start at a minimum of $45K a year around here. Yah, it's a difference. Want to be a 12th grade AP Calc teacher? You get to start out at $70K around here in most districts. So you have zero clue what you are talking about.

[Exterous]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Uhh what? No. I looked into being a teacher. Practically every school district where I am at pays premium bucks for Science, Math, and Computer teachers. Hell it's listed on most of their websites. Want to be an 8th grade music teacher? Look to start out at $30K a year at most. Want to be an 8th grade Computer Science Teacher? You'll start at a minimum of $45K a year around here. Yah, it's a difference. Want to be a 12th grade AP Calc teacher? You get to start out at $70K around here in most districts. So you have zero clue what you are talking about.

Yeah - not like my wife is a math/spanish teacher or anything.

Lets see - do I take the word of two math teachers (Dr Pizza and my wife) or someone who is not a teacher....gee....tough one (At most I would give you that perhaps it varies by school but by and large you are going to find that it does not)

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by Exterous

Yeah - not like my wife is a math/spanish teacher or anything.

Lets see - do I take the word of two math teachers (Dr Pizza and my wife) or someone who is not a teacher....gee....tough one

Gee, I have friends that teach, hang out with teachers, my mom teachs (adjunct right now at a local college), and I was looking really hard a few years ago at becoming a teacher.

You may live in an area where teachers are not paid premiums based upon the subject they teach, but around here they do. And from what I understand, you can make quite a bit more if you are willing to teach in either a shit hole school or in a really rural area. Why? Because it's hard to find people willing to teach in some places.

[HumblePie]

http://www.ehow.com/info_7842093_ave...-salaries.html

Some areas of study provide higher teacher salaries than others, based on demand and the supply of experts in the field. A common subject, such as English, pays a national average of $40,910 a year. However, a new French language teacher is more of a commodity, and while jobs may be fewer in number, the teacher may garner a higher salary as French teachers average $49,809, according to PayScale.com as of January 2011.

Read more: Average Starting Teacher Salaries | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/info_7842093_ave...#ixzz2CL23aBFt

Also stated in other articles is not all school districts pay increased salaries by subject. Those school districts have a ton of phys ed, music teachers that end up teaching math, science, and computer courses since they are paid the same regardless. Those same school districts typically have their children do worse in those subjects as a result.


http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...alary#by_Skill


Also if you scroll down they list the amount of teachers by average and the average pay. In American, women make up 69% of all teaching positions recorded on that site. They also have a lower salary range and average by far than their male counterparts. Which the male counter parts typically are teaching the classes that pay more in most places that don't use outdated pay models.

[Exterous]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

Gee, I have friends that teach, hang out with teachers, my mom teachs (adjunct right now at a local college), and I was looking really hard a few years ago at becoming a teacher.

You may live in an area where teachers are not paid premiums based upon the subject they teach, but around here they do. And from what I understand, you can make quite a bit more if you are willing to teach in either a shit hole school or in a really rural area. Why? Because it's hard to find people willing to teach in some places.

Oh good this should be easy then. Find me a school in your area that pays more. Most Schools are public so the scales are publicly available.

Here are some from mine:
http://www.annarbor.com/09%20Aug%201...ework%20TA.pdf

http://www.lcsd1.k12.wy.us/Employmen...0schedules.pdf

Edit: A quick google search of the San Antonio Independent school district shows absolutely NO variance in pay in anything other than degree level or years of service

[Exterous]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/...alary#by_Skill

All that says is is median income by skill/specialty. It shows no data behind the projection so it is impossible to determine if the median is skewed by years or service of one of the other subjects being longer.

For example - if the average physics teacher has been teaching longer than the average english teacher the pay scales necessitate that the median income of the physics teacher is higher than the English teacher. Without that information it cannot be determined if the pay range reported is higher due to service length or subject preference.

It would be far better to wait for you to provide proof that your local K-12 schools (why bring college into this?) pay more for other subjects.