Author Chris Kyle fatally shot on gun range

[tcG]

Originally Posted by sigurros81

You should go to the local VA and listen to some of the stories, you might learn a thing or two about life.

How do war stories change the fact that most of our actions in foreign countries are immoral and unnecessary?

Soldiers as individuals can do good things when in the field. I don't deny that. I don't, however, think that being paid to be a gear in a big corrupt machine is something to be applauded.

Being a young man, I could have joined the U.S. military after college, and probably even landed a non-combat position. The financial incentive is certainly there as it is for many students fresh out of high school. I didn't do it because I think it's the easy way out and considering my opinions about the way U.S. foreign policy is conducted, I believe that my membership would have contributed to the deaths of innocent people and perpetuated a corrupt system that serves narrow, moneyed interests.

[Nebor]

Originally Posted by tcG

How do war stories change the fact that most of our actions in foreign countries are immoral and unnecessary?

Soldiers as individuals can do good things when in the field. I don't deny that. I don't, however, think that being paid to be a gear in a big corrupt machine is something to be applauded.

Being a young man, I could have joined the U.S. military after college, and probably even landed a non-combat position. The financial incentive is certainly there as it is for many students fresh out of college. I didn't do it because I think it's the easy way out and considering my opinions about the way U.S. foreign policy is conducted, I believe that my membership would have contributed to the deaths of innocent people and perpetuated a corrupt system that serves narrow, moneyed interests.

What is it you do for a living? I'm just curious, as I had a fairly successful civilian career prior to the military, and I've never thought, "Hah, I sure am glad I took the easy way out!"

[tcG]

I'm currently an unemployed college student, so perhaps I will succumb yet and join up! Probably not though, for the same reason that I'm not going to start robbing banks.

[sigurros81]

Originally Posted by tcG

How do war stories change the fact that most of our actions in foreign countries are immoral and unnecessary?

Soldiers as individuals can do good things when in the field. I don't deny that. I don't, however, think that being paid to be a gear in a big corrupt machine is something to be applauded.

Being a young man, I could have joined the U.S. military after college, and probably even landed a non-combat position. The financial incentive is certainly there as it is for many students fresh out of high school. I didn't do it because I think it's the easy way out and considering my opinions about the way U.S. foreign policy is conducted, I believe that my membership would have contributed to the deaths of innocent people and perpetuated a corrupt system that serves narrow, moneyed interests.

If you're going to grandiose about it, the fact that you're living your life as an American means you have some contribution to the deaths of innocents across the world. I'm not saying you specifically, but lets not kid ourselves that we law abiding American citizens are free from the guilt and the blood on our hands. If you have a beef with how wars are conducted, you should direct your grievances toward the policy makers. So get off your high horse because we are all guilty in your sense, but at least a soldier has the courage to leave his/her spouse, children, parents, siblings behind to do the dirty work while most Americans like you can comfortably sit at home and enjoy your coffee brewed by that made in china coffee maker.

[sigurros81]

Originally Posted by tcG

I'm currently an unemployed college student, so perhaps I will succumb yet and join up! Probably not though, for the same reason that I'm not going to start robbing banks.

So in your view, enlisting in the United States military is akin to robbing banks? Why do I even bother

[tcG]

Originally Posted by sigurros81

So in your view, enlisting in the United States military is akin to robbing banks? Why do I even bother

I should have been more explicit. I meant that I'm not going to do something immoral just because I could use the money.

[Gintaras]

Originally Posted by eskimospy

I'm not aware of a single other western country that has a comparable attitude towards their military. This doesn't mean they disrespect their members, but they certainly don't glorify them the way we do here.

If you have a nation that you think matches up to the US I would be interested to hear it.

Russia...don't think that of China as of yet...

First, History tells a lot...It's very hard or even impossible to re-write a History.
Afghanistan. USSR Red Army generals didn't want to "enter" Afghanistan - they were pretty educated and knew a History - a History of Afghanistan - Afghanistan Was NEVER conquered by any other nation. USSR Politburo forced USSR Army generals to "enter" Afghanistan...

Everyone do know a History....except US - they want to try once again - maybe this time we'll be lucky...

HISTORY is not a lotto...ask Napoleon or A.Hitler going to Russia...wining less "numbers"...
US do not even know, what's a War is all about, when all matters - NOT dollars and cents, but lifes...
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - nothing is won on these "bets"...want to take it higher: Russia, China?

Even if I live in US, but I see today's US "tandem" with Israel as it was in last century "tandem" Germany-Italy(maybe, also, Japan)...
I do not side with any country(i'm not a patriot of citizenship - not on any side of "The Fence")...I do side with a HISTORY...

Expressions, like: "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword" or "what's goes around, comes around" - are not out of nowhere...These are WORDS OF WISDOM...and it goes centuries back ago...
Sad...that some just ignore Words Of Wisdom...and how stupid it is - they'll notice later, when it will be to late...

DO NOT IGNORE WORDS OF WISDOM OR HISTORY.....

[sigurros81]

Originally Posted by Gintaras

Russia...don't think that of China as of yet...

First, History tells a lot...It's very hard or even impossible to re-write a History.
Afghanistan. USSR Red Army generals didn't want to "enter" Afghanistan - they were pretty educated and knew a History - a History of Afghanistan - Afghanistan Was NEVER conquered by any other nation. USSR Politburo forced USSR Army generals to "enter" Afghanistan...

Everyone do know a History....except US - they want to try once again - maybe this time we'll be lucky...

HISTORY is not a lotto...ask Napoleon or A.Hitler going to Russia...wining less "numbers"...
US do not even know, what's a War is all about, when all matters - NOT dollars and cents, but lifes...
Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan - nothing is won on these "bets"...want to take it higher: Russia, China?

Even if I live in US, but I see today's US "tandem" with Israel as it was in last century "tandem" Germany-Italy(maybe, also, Japan)...
I do not side with any country(i'm not a patriot of citizenship - not on any side of "The Fence")...I do side with a HISTORY...

Expressions, like: "he who lives by the sword dies by the sword" or "what's goes around, comes around" - are not out of nowhere...These are WORDS OF WISDOM...and it goes centuries back ago...
Sad...that some just ignore Words Of Wisdom...and how stupid it is - they'll notice later, when it will be to late...

DO NOT IGNORE WORDS OF WISDOM OR HISTORY.....

K cool, I'll start living my life by little quotes of wisdom. Can someone start compiling a list of these words of wisdom so I can begin to mold my life to their teachings. Alliteration would be great, but even better if they rhyme.

[Gintaras]

Originally Posted by sigurros81

K cool, I'll start living my life by little quotes of wisdom. Can someone start compiling a list of these words of wisdom so I can begin to mold my life to their teachings. Alliteration would be great, but even better if they rhyme.

ATOT have a lots of:

Don’t argue with idiots because they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience

[xj0hnx]

Originally Posted by Gintaras

ATOT have a lots of:

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and no one wants to hear them.

[monovillage]

Originally Posted by xj0hnx

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and no one wants to hear them.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and they all stink.

[Nebor]

Originally Posted by tcG

I'm currently an unemployed college student, so perhaps I will succumb yet and join up! Probably not though, for the same reason that I'm not going to start robbing banks.

Probably not as the academic and physical standards have increased dramatically over the past 5 years, while the training programs have increased their rigor and subsequently their attrition rates. Apparently "bank robbing" has been enjoying a sharp increase in popularity.

[Zebo]

Damn I didn't hear about this. True American hero and trying to help other service members out on his own time and dealing with dangerous kids coming back with PSTD speaks even more about his character. Sad...

[Zebo]

Originally Posted by klinc

He killed 255 people then bragged about it in a book. He took 255 lives most of them unsuspecting victims thousand yards away. To some he is a hero because he killed 255 evil people. To 255 families he was a monster for taking their son/dad/mother/grandpa or whatever away then made money out of it as well. He didn't show remorse and treated it as some job.

Now who is the evil one? How does one measure evil? Is there such a thing as a universal 'index' according to which deeds of evil can be judged? If we, for example, take the Universal Declaration of Human Rights as the final arbiter of what is evil and what is not, how could we then judge Zimbabwe as being more evil than, for example, China and Saudi Arabia – two countries enjoying marvelous ties with the West despite their abysmal human rights records. Is this blatant hypocrisy, or just the obligatory Real Politic of individual nations surviving in a cynical world where might (financial, military, etc) is right?

He donated all the monies from books to fallen fellow Seals families. Your diatribe doesn't wash. Dude was compassion 100% and prolly saved thousands with what many snipes.

[Zebo]

Originally Posted by eskimospy

Sure. A job he volunteered for several times. I'm not making a judgment call on his work, I'm talking about those who say you aren't allowed to criticize him.

if he leaves and man who replaces him gets killed he'd feel terrible. you understand nothing about combat arms, teamwork and unit brotherhood not to mention types of ingrates they hunted.

I'm as antiwar as you can get from the beginning even Afghanistan I though was a waste of men and material on a unappreciative indoctrinated primitive people that have no use for democracy . But if there was one group that needed to be there doing hits on AQ personel was spec ops so I support these wolves 100%.