PSA: if you are looking for a new receiver...

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by JackBurton

purbeast0, if you are planning to get these tools to tinker around with, that's cool. But if you just want your theater to sound the best it possibly can, I'd recommend using a calibrator. The guy I used is awesome and will not only calibrate your audio, but will also make recommendations to improve the overall sound in the room (room treatment, etc.). The guy is awesome and I can't recommend him enough. Once I move I'm definitely going to have him come back out and calibrate my audio gear (he already calibrated both of my TV's a few months ago).

Anyway, just throwing that out there since you were contemplating spending $300 on a mic.

yea it was more to tinker around with stuff and visualize my sound settings. not anything i'm going to get right now but if i have $300 lying around and feel like snagging it i probably will. i don't see how my current sound could really get any better, but i'm sure it can since i haven't done much tweaking at all.

[Aikouka]

Originally Posted by purbeast0

just to be clear, and i don't mean this as you being stupid or anything, but you actually ran the calibration with the mic before turning the setting on right?

Well, I'm still a bit of a home theater audio noob, so no problem. I actually don't remember exactly what I did when setting up my Denon 2112, but I could rerun it if you'd like? Would the Matrix lobby scene be a good test? I don't own Saving Private Ryan.

[reallyscrued]

Originally Posted by s44

Did Yoyo's thread on using Audyssey MultEQ XT on his cheap-ass old Sony speakers get lost in a forum reboot? Can't seem to find it.

I would be very interested in reading this thread if anyone can find it.

[alkemyst]

Originally Posted by vshah

amen. if you are on a budget, look into refurbished denons from accesories4less.com

Correct your link, that goes to malware.

[Zorander]

I lost the mic that came with my Denon (AVR-789, iirc) receiver that was required for Audyssey setup.

Is this mic Denon-specific or can I just grab any other mics?

[vshah]

the mic is audyssey specific, the receiver is calibrated to the mic's expected response.
here's a replacement http://www.accessories4less.com/make...o-Denon/1.html

you could check ebay etc. too.

[thestrangebrew1]

Originally Posted by Zorander

I lost the mic that came with my Denon (AVR-789, iirc) receiver that was required for Audyssey setup.

Is this mic Denon-specific or can I just grab any other mics?

I think I've lost my mic for the ypao as well. I don't remember seeing that since my initial setup. I'll have to do some scavenging or find a replacement.

[oldsmoboat]

There are different flavors of Audyssey. Which one is best?

[gar655]

Originally Posted by oldsmoboat

There are different flavors of Audyssey. Which one is best?

XT32 and version there of.

As for Audyssey being the greatest thing around, it's not. It's just that it's available on many more AVRs at all price levels. And the upper levels will do some sub eq.

That said Pioneer's ARC is actually much more customizable and flexible while generally doing a much better job on the speakers while leaving the sub alone.

I would rather have Pioneer,s approach than Audyssey's. Dual subs can negate the need for sub EQ and there is other sub EQ software available if you really need it.

[JackBurton]

Originally Posted by gar655

XT32 and version there of.

As for Audyssey being the greatest thing around, it's not. It's just that it's available on many more AVRs at all price levels. And the upper levels will do some sub eq.

That said Pioneer's ARC is actually much more customizable and flexible while generally doing a much better job on the speakers while leaving the sub alone.

I would rather have Pioneer,s approach than Audyssey's. Dual subs can negate the need for sub EQ and there is other sub EQ software available if you really need it.

Pioneer actually uses MCACC. Anthem uses ARC. Unless you were just using the acronym ARC as just a general term for room correction.

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by gar655

XT32 and version there of.

As for Audyssey being the greatest thing around, it's not. It's just that it's available on many more AVRs at all price levels. And the upper levels will do some sub eq.

That said Pioneer's ARC is actually much more customizable and flexible while generally doing a much better job on the speakers while leaving the sub alone.

I would rather have Pioneer,s approach than Audyssey's. Dual subs can negate the need for sub EQ and there is other sub EQ software available if you really need it.

from the research i've done the xt32 version (the one i have) is great if you have dual subs because it does actual dual calibration. i don't really have anything to compare it to though, but i do know that the subs were not setup good at all until after i ran the audyssey setup.

<--- total noob to all this though hah.

[vshah]

Originally Posted by purbeast0

from the research i've done the xt32 version (the one i have) is great if you have dual subs because it does actual dual calibration. i don't really have anything to compare it to though, but i do know that the subs were not setup good at all until after i ran the audyssey setup.

<--- total noob to all this though hah.

not all xt32 does dual sub calibration. you need to have xt32 AND SUBeq for that. for example there is an onkyo receiver, i think the NR818, that has xt32 but does not have subeq, and therefore will not do dual sub eq.

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by vshah

not all xt32 does dual sub calibration. you need to have xt32 AND SUBeq for that. for example there is an onkyo receiver, i think the NR818, that has xt32 but does not have subeq, and therefore will not do dual sub eq.

ah okay, interesting. i thought it was part of xt32. after a quick google search my receiver does in fact have that too. just always assumed it was audyssey doing that.

[Aharami]

yea, love the Audyssey MultiEQ XT on my Onkyo 876. But lately it seems like my receiver is losing its Audyssey settings every couple weeks. I'd come down to watch a movie, and everything would sound flat. Rerun Audyssey calibration and back to normal. Getting a bit tired of having to rerun calibration so many times

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by Aharami

yea, love the Audyssey MultiEQ XT on my Onkyo 876. But lately it seems like my receiver is losing its Audyssey settings every couple weeks. I'd come down to watch a movie, and everything would sound flat. Rerun Audyssey calibration and back to normal. Getting a bit tired of having to rerun calibration so many times

that does suck. can you store your settings on your pc somehow? i did that immediately after i ran audyssey this time and had it all set up, JUST in case something happened again.

although, once i have my speaker stands done i'm going to have to rerun it again.

but there are other settings as well that i don't want lost aside from just speaker settings.

[Aharami]

reading thru the Audyssey setup guide and the Onkyo 876 owners thread, Audyssey apparently changes a lot of settings in the background that is not displayed on the AVR's setup screen. So even if I go back into the setup screen and manually enter the speaker levels, distances, etc settings, it doesn't sound the same. Have to re-calibrate.

My biggest gripe with Audyssey is that the amount of time it takes for a 7 speaker calibration. Dont know why they left so much time between each speaker's chirp.

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by Aharami

reading thru the Audyssey setup guide and the Onkyo 876 owners thread, Audyssey apparently changes a lot of settings in the background that is not displayed on the AVR's setup screen. So even if I go back into the setup screen and manually enter the speaker levels, distances, etc settings, it doesn't sound the same. Have to re-calibrate.

My biggest gripe with Audyssey is that the amount of time it takes for a 7 speaker calibration. Dont know why they left so much time between each speaker's chirp.

how long does it take you to calibrate that? and from how many listening positions?

to calibrate my 5 speaker setup (3 fronts 2 subs) with 5 listening positions it took about 5-7 minutes if i had to guess. the first go around took the longest but the next 4 go much faster.

[Aharami]

I use the max # of calibration positions allowed by multiEQ XT - 8. 8 positions with 7 speakers and sub, from start to finish takes about 35-40 mins. That's with the calculation and me going in and adjusting sub settings.

Do your subs each calibrate separately? I have both my subs running off a single amp so my two subs look like one to my AVR. 5-7 mins is pretty good. Probably because you have a newer AVR and Denon might do things differently than Onkyo also.

[purbeast0]

Originally Posted by Aharami

I use the max # of calibration positions allowed by multiEQ XT - 8. 8 positions with 7 speakers and sub, from start to finish takes about 35-40 mins. That's with the calculation and me going in and adjusting sub settings.

Do your subs each calibrate separately? I have both my subs running off a single amp so my two subs look like one to my AVR. 5-7 mins is pretty good. Probably because you have a newer AVR and Denon might do things differently than Onkyo also.

i believe the first go through my subs calibrate individually, then together. then for the other listening positions it only calibrates them together.

i have my subs both hooked to 1 amp, and yea i had to turn the gain knobs some in order to get it to the correct initial db setting as informed by audyssey.

so with all that i'd say mine is more like 7-10 minutes.

[reallyscrued]

Okay, something's been driving me crazy for the past week and I thought I'd share my results in case anyone else has been having the same issues.


Symptom:

FL and FR speakers would not image correct. Hard to tell in movies with 5.1, but extremely easy to tell with music. When playing music, the lead vocals would not come from a phantom center and the sound stage was entirely blurred out. Almost sounds like the speakers were out of phase.

Did a microprocessor reset on my AVR-591 and the symptom went away. Vocals gloriously came from a phantom center. Great, except my Audy settings were reset. Went ahead and ran Audy setup, and what do you know...everything sounds out of phase again. The kicker was...even if I disabled Audy MultEQ (after setup being run), it STILL sounded blurred.

Did a reset and the speakers sounded perfect again. I was about to send this unit to Denon to repair until I figured out what it was.

Fix:

The distance setting of each speaker. Audy set the distance to unequal numbers, like

FL: 5.3 ft
FR: 4.8 ft
C: 6.9 ft

And so on. On a whim, I set FR and FL to an average of the two (I compromised setting them both at 5.0 ft) and bam, speakers sounded wonderful again.

I also went ahead and set the surround speakers to an average of the two distance readings so they were equal.

Not sure why its so sensitive but having the distance unequal in even .1 ft measurements completely ruined the soundstage. I urge everyone to set distance to an equal number in the settings, it really creates some weird artifacts with sound reproduction, 0 ft for all of them would do fine really.

If you extrapolate this problem, the Center speaker and the Subwoofer set at different distances would cause some very weird timing issues on 5.1 movie soundtracks.


So I guess, Audy isn't all that smart after all. The only worthwhile features now are it setting volume levels automatically for each speaker and EQing everything but changes I make to Audy now are:

Set crossovers to 120 hz across the board
Set all speakers to 0 ft so all sounds are played at the same time, preserving sound stage

[vshah]

Originally Posted by reallyscrued

snip

there are a TON of things that can affect audyssey calibration and cause it to report incorrect values.
A sampling:

mic not mounted at ear level
mic not pointing directly at the ceiling
mic not mounted on a tripod
mic too close to a hard surface
mic closer than 18 inches to a rear wall

are both your speakers equidistant from the first listening position?

of course sometimes its easier just to go in and fix stuff manually like you did

[reallyscrued]

Originally Posted by vshah

there are a TON of things that can affect audyssey calibration and cause it to report incorrect values.
A sampling:

mic not mounted at ear level
mic not pointing directly at the ceiling
mic not mounted on a tripod
mic too close to a hard surface
mic closer than 18 inches to a rear wall

are both your speakers equidistant from the first listening position?

of course sometimes its easier just to go in and fix stuff manually like you did

Mic was mounted on a tripod, directly at the ceiling, at ear level.

However, It is definitely closer than 18 inches to the rear wall. Wow, that was it that made everything sound terrible? The programming should be a little more forgiving I'd think...I wonder how many people out there are running with non-optimal setups because they can't quite recognize when things sound out-of-whack.

Aside from that, no, my speakers are not equidistant from the listening position, but why is it that even a setting of .1 ft between the two values give such a terrible coloration to the sound? Is it just my particular AVR?

[vshah]

Well, distance basically sets the delay to the speakers (so sound reaches your listening position at the same time ). Very possible for a couple milliseconds wrong to make things sound off.

[reallyscrued]

Originally Posted by vshah

Well, distance basically sets the delay to the speakers (so sound reaches your listening position at the same time ). Very possible for a couple milliseconds wrong to make things sound off.

Exactly my point. If a couple milliseconds can make everything sound off, shouldn't the software be way more careful of making those kind of adjustments? I cant imagine in which case this setting would be useful outside of an extremely large theater where speakers are literally 2 or 3 feet in difference to each listeners' ears.

Does Audy set exactly the right distance for each speaker for anyone here? Has anyone tried reverting their distance values to null to see if it sounds better without the correction?