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Old 08-24-2011, 05:29 PM   #1
JanCerny
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Default Some questions for 25nm IMFT NAND flash

First let me introduce, my name is Jan Černý and I work as SSD reviewer for Czech web magazine: http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/ (in the past I working for http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/30)

In these days I working on Kingston HyperX SSD review.

This SSD have Intel 29F16B08CCME2 NAND flash chips. This document says:
  • 25nm MLC Intel
  • ONFi v2.2
  • 2 die, 2 CE, 2 R/B, common I/O
  • 5000 Program/Erase cycles
  • asynchronous mode only
But local PR:
Quote:
after speaking also to R&D we don't give out those specifics. I can tell u that it is synchronous NAND w. 5000PE cycle endurance - everything else is internal only.
Intel SSD 320 have 29F16B08CCME1 and Anand says: http://*******/r3yy9f
Quote:
ONFi v2.1
asynchronous mode only
Which information is correct? It's only different version (1=synchronous; 2=synchronous)?

Last edited by JanCerny; 08-24-2011 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:13 PM   #2
onethreehill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JanCerny View Post
First let me introduce, my name is Jan Černý and I work as SSD reviewer for Czech web magazine: http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/ (in the past I working for http://pctuning.tyden.cz/hardware/30)

In these days I working on Kingston HyperX SSD review.

This SSD have Intel 29F16B08CCME2 NAND flash chips. This document says:
  • 25nm MLC Intel
  • ONFi v2.2
  • 2 die, 2 CE, 2 R/B, common I/O
  • 5000 Program/Erase cycles
  • asynchronous mode only
The document you linked is 29F16B08CAME1 specs?
AFAIK,
Kingston HyperX SSD is using synchronous NAND

I just started this list (incomplete)

ADATA S511 120GB - Intel 29F64G08AAMEI
ADATA S511 240GB - 29F168G 08CAMEI
Corsair Force Series 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA

Corsair Force Series GT 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAB.
Corsair Performance 3 128GB - Toshiba TH58TVG7D2
FBA89
Corsair Performance 3 256GB - Toshiba TH58TV68D2 FBA89
Crucial RealSSD C300 128GB -
Crucial RealSSD C300 256MB -
Crucial RealSSD C300 512GB
Crucial m4 128GB -
Crucial m4 256MB - Micron 29F128G08CFAAB
Crucial m4 512GB -
Intel SSD 320 120GB -
Intel SSD 320 160GB -
Intel SSD 320 3000GB -
Intel SSD 510 120GB -
Intel
SSD 510 250GB –
Kingston HyperX 240GB – Intel 29F168G08CCME2
OCZ Solid 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA

OCZ Agility 3 120GB -
OCZ Agility 3 240GB - 29F128G08CFAAA
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB - 29F64G08CACME2
OCZ Vertex 3 240GB - Intel 29F128G08CFAAB
OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS 120GB -
OCZ Vertex 3 Max IOPS 240GB - Toshiba TH58
TAG7D2FBA89
OWC Mercury Electra 6G 120GB -
OWC Mercury Electra 6G 240GB - 29F168G08CAMEI
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 120GB - 29F64G08CBAAB
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB – Micron 29F128G08CFAAB
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 120GB - Toshiba TH58TAG7D2FBA89
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB - Toshiba TH58TAG7D2FBA89
Patriot Pyro 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA
Patriot Wildfire 120GB

Last edited by onethreehill; 08-24-2011 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:51 PM   #3
JanCerny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill View Post
The document you linked is 29F16B08CCME1 specs?
It's preliminary revision from 10/2009.

Last digit mean product generation, but i don't know what is it matter. It's mean speed, P/E cycles, better technology process?
  • ONFi v2.x / toggle mode / synchronous: Corsair Force GT, OCZ Vertex 3, OCZ Vertex 3 MAX IOPS, Kingston HyperX SSD, Super Talent TeraDrive PT3, Patriot Wildfire
  • ONFi v1.0 / asynchronous (slower): OCZ Agility 3, Corsair Force 3, Super Talent TeraDrive CT3, Patriot Pyro

For Intel 320 and 510 Sereis NAND type look to mine old reviews.
510 Series have 29F16B08JAMDD (250 GB) and 29F64G08CAMDD (120 GB). 320 Series using different combination in 120GB model (6 × 128 Gbit + 4 × 64 Gbit).

Answer is here: http://bbs.pceva.com.cn/thread-25025-1-1.html
Quote:
29F16B08CCME1
The Different between asynchronous & synchronous NAND is IO Voltage ( 3.3V vs 1.8V ).

The red C in the picture means Synchronous.

In my experience, The asynchronous & synchronous NAND use the Same Die, Intel just mark the part number for different marketing( Maybe they do more stable test on Synchronous NAND) . That mean you can force the asynchronous NAND to run synchronous Mode.


Mine part list decoder (based on original documents, but not guaranted truth)




P/E cycles list from XS


MICRON 25nm 3,000 PE cycles. 4K page file. Block size 1,024K
• MT29F32G08CBACA
• MT29F64G08CEACA
• MT29F64G08CFACA
• MT29F128G08CXACA
• MT29F64G08CECCB
• MT29F64G08CFACB

MICRON 34nm 5,000 PE cycles. 4K page file. Block size 1,024K
• MT29F32G08CBABA
• MT29F64G08C[E/F]ABA
• MT29F128G08C[J/K/M]ABA
• MT29F256G08CUABA
• MT29F32G08CBABB
• MT29F32G08CBCBB
• MT29F64G08CFABB
• MT29F64G08CECBB
• MT29F128G08CJABB
• MT29F128G08C[K/M]CBB
• MT29F256G08CUCBB

MICRON 34nm 10,000 PE cycles. 4K page file. Block size 512K
• MT29F16G08MAA
• MT29F32G08QAA
• MT29F64G08TAA

Intel 34nm 5,000 PE cycles. 4K page file, Block size 1,024K
• (JS)29F32G08AAMDB
• ( JS)29F64G08CAMDB
• ( JS)29F16B08JAMDB

Last edited by JanCerny; 08-25-2011 at 05:45 AM. Reason: added answer
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Old 08-25-2011, 06:04 PM   #4
onethreehill
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The document you linked in (post #1) is for 29F64G08CAME1, 29F16B08CAME1, 29F32B08CAME1.

A in the above OPN is probably asynchronous

Do you have another document with synchronous specs?

A is 3.3V and B is 1.8V

If C in Kingston's OPN 29F16B08CCME1 is synchronous

What is B & F?

Corsair Force Series 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA
Corsair Force Series GT 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAB.
Crucial m4 256MB - Micron 29F128G08CFAAB
OCZ Solid 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA
OCZ Agility 3 240GB - 29F128G08CFAAA
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB - 29F64G08CACME2
OCZ Vertex 3 240GB - Intel 29F128G08CFAAB
OWC Mercury Electra 6G 240GB - 29F168G08CAMEI
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 120GB - 29F64G08CBAAB
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB – Micron 29F128G08CFAAB
Patriot Pyro 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA

Last edited by onethreehill; 08-25-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 08-25-2011, 08:22 PM   #5
JanCerny
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Micron using similar OPN as Intel, but not same.

Wiki + Baido:
  • L52A (1, 2) = 2GB MLC, 50 nm, 10.000 P/E cycles, ONFi v1.0, sync mode only
  • M61A = SLC, 34 nm, 100.000 P/E cycles, ONFi v2.1, 166 MT/s (on sync mode)
  • L62A = 2GB MLC, 34 nm
  • M62B = SLC, 34 nm
  • L63A (1, 2) = 4GB MLC, 34 nm, 10.000 P/E cycles, ONFi v2.0, sync mode only? (50 MT/s??)
  • L63B = 4GB MLC, 34 nm, 10.000 P/E cycles, ONFi v2.0, 166 MT/s (on sync mode)
  • L73A = 4GB MLC, 25 nm
  • L74A = 8GB MLC, 25 nm, 5.000 P/E cycles, ONFi v2.2, 200 MT/s (on sync mode)
Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill View Post
What is B & F?
Chip organization (#die, C/E, R/B)


Quote:
Originally Posted by onethreehill View Post


Corsair Force Series 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA = async
Corsair Force Series GT 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAB = sync
Crucial m4 256MB - Micron 29F128G08CFAAB = sync
OCZ Solid 3 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA = async
OCZ Agility 3 240GB - Intel 29F128G08CFAAA = async
OCZ Vertex 3 120GB - Intel 29F64G08CACME2 = sync
OCZ Vertex 3 240GB - Micron 29F128G08CFAAB = sync
OWC Mercury Electra 6G 240GB - Intel 29F168G08CAME1 (not I) = async
OWC
Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAB = sync
OWC Mercury Extreme Pro 6G 240GB – Micron 29F128G08CFAAB = sync
Patriot Pyro 120GB - Micron 29F64G08CBAAA = async

Last edited by JanCerny; 08-26-2011 at 07:09 AM. Reason: added SLC M61A
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Old 08-25-2011, 10:52 PM   #6
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Thank you JanCerny


OCZ Agility 3 240GB SSD - Asynchronous NAND


Quote:
As always, we look at the part number to tell us what's going on. Micron's part numbers are a little different than Intel's but the key things to pay attention to here are the 128G (128Gbit packages, 16GB per package) and characters 11 and 14. Character 11 here is an F, which corresponds to 2 die per package (2 x 8GB 25nm die in each NAND device) while number 14 is an A, indicating that this is asynchronous NAND. To date I've only encountered 25nm synchronous (represented by the letter B) NAND, but as with any other silicon device there's always a cost savings if you can sacrifice performance.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4346/o...3-240gb-review


OCZ Vertex 3 240GB SSD - Synchronous NAND


Quote:
These are Intel 25nm NAND devices, looking at the part number tells us a little bit about them. You can ignore the first three characters in the part number, they tell you that you're looking at Intel NAND. Characters 4 - 6 (if you sin and count at 1) indicate the density of the package, in this case 64G means 64Gbits or 8GB. The next two characters indicate the device bus width (8-bytes). Now the ninth character is the important one - it tells you the number of die inside the package. These parts are marked A, which corresponds to one die per device. The second to last character is also important, here E stands for 25nm.

Once again we have sixteen NAND devices, eight on each side. OCZ standardized on Intel 25nm NAND for both capacities initially. The density string on the 240GB drive is 16B for 16Gbytes (128 Gbit), which makes sense given the drive has twice the capacity.

A look at the ninth character on these chips and you see the letter C, which in Intel NAND nomenclature stands for 2 die per package (J is for 4 die per package if you were wondering).
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4316/o...3-240gb-review

Last edited by onethreehill; 08-26-2011 at 12:50 AM.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:45 AM   #7
Yanagi
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Hi. Im currently reviewing an SSD for the Swedish site Nordichardware. This drive is a budget Sandforce drive with memory chips with the partnumber 29F16B08CCME3. It is supposed to be Async and the performance of the drive tells me that its async.

But isnt it strange that 29F16B08CCME1 is async, 29F16B08CCME2 is sync och 29F16B08CCME3 is async again? Anyone have any ideas?
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Old 04-14-2012, 06:32 AM   #8
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I think no, Yanagi. As you see on the Intel numbering table in this thread, the last number is only the product generation. Intel numbering is different than Micron numbering, as you can see in numbering tables. Intel numbering doesn`t have number or letter for asynchronous or synchronous NAND flash.
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