New cars FORCED to use synthetic oil???

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by redgtxdi

Well, one of the things I used to do back in my drag racing days to pick good oil was to let a motor sit for a couple days after races and then pull the top end apart and see if there was any oil there. Hands down, Kendal (SAE 30 back then) was always more present than even the 2nd best I found (Castrol). Now, I'm talking 20 years ago, but still there were oils that were better at residual clinging than others and the bearings often told the story.



And in my case, I'm still aghast at the notion that the same exact motor (Toyota 2TR-FE 2.7L) went from working just fine on 5W-30 to now requiring-----ONLY----- 0W-20 which is also -----ONLY---- available as a synthetic, with the ever so slight concession that 5W-20 may be used so long as the next change is back to 0W-20!!!!!!

That, to me, is a load of oppressive crap!!!

Again, 0W-20 is available as a blend.

[Jimzz]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

Someone actually recommends Pennzoil? I'm assuming this is fairly recent? That or Mobil1 has been around a lot longer than I thought.

I just don't feel like I can trust Pennzoil ever since they got in bed with Fram and Jiffylube. Fram being the maker of their branded filters, and IIRC Jiffylube advertising that they use their products exclusively. I now lump them in with, like, 'Super-tech' oil from Walmart or similar.

Might seem odd that I'm picky about brand and not weight...truth is I'm picky about all of it, I just prefer to lean torward the heavy side with oil weights. Within reason. I use 10w40 on older engines. Even 20w50 if it's really an old clunker (usually just worn-out pushrod V8's), though not in winter.

.

Pennzoil did not get in bed with Jiffylube, they are jiffylube. Pennzoil owns jiffylube and has for a long time, that is why they use pennzoil oil.

Fram was probably because they were the low bidder? But I don't use fram or tell anyone to.

The requirments and specs on oil today are so great that any name brand oil will work fine. I have never had a oil I prefer, I always buy the cheapest name brand.

[LTC8K6]

Ford changed a lot of old engines to 5W-20, including my 1995 Taurus 3.8L, via a technical bulletin. I'm sure they did testing before recommending the change.

I'm certain there are valid reasons for the oil selections made by the mfgs.

I'm also certain it's not worth worrying about, especially if the vehicle is in warranty. Just use the viscosity that's recommended. There's really no reason to do otherwise.

[thescreensavers]

Damn manufactures and MPG races

[pcgeek11]

Originally Posted by redgtxdi

What I want to know is, in my case, how can Toyota say that the same truck we had 5 years ago (literally, same friggin everything) MUST use a 0W-20 synthetic oil when 5W-30 dino was sufficient for the same vehicle, same motor in the same dress???

Bolded part.

You do not know this for sure anyway. The engine may be the same general design,but the bearings specifications may have been tightened up. Plus lots more ... You just don't know.

[pcgeek11]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

I know I've heard some old guys argue that all you need when assembling an engine is 'something slick' and that the type of oil/grease doesn't really make a difference. Others, of course, will refuse to use anything other than STP brand molasses. Damn that shit is nasty to deal with.

That is what I was taught ( STP Honey ) by the "Old Guys" when I was building engines in 1970... Now I'm one of those Old Guys!

[LTC8K6]

http://www.tacomaworld.com/out.php?u...2FT-TT-0005-10

Oil Viscosity Applicability and Change Interval Guide USA - Toyota

[BUTCH1]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

Someone actually recommends Pennzoil? I'm assuming this is fairly recent? That or Mobil1 has been around a lot longer than I thought.

I just don't feel like I can trust Pennzoil ever since they got in bed with Fram and Jiffylube. Fram being the maker of their branded filters, and IIRC Jiffylube advertising that they use their products exclusively. I now lump them in with, like, 'Super-tech' oil from Walmart or similar.

Might seem odd that I'm picky about brand and not weight...truth is I'm picky about all of it, I just prefer to lean torward the heavy side with oil weights. Within reason. I use 10w40 on older engines. Even 20w50 if it's really an old clunker (usually just worn-out pushrod V8's), though not in winter.

I could do a mildly scientific test by just coating some old scrap bearings with different weights, putting them in a sealed container and...observing, basically. But even with a greater mass and/or volume (...does viscosity correlate with density?) of the thicker oil, you can't say as a fact that it would provide better protection. I know I've heard some old guys argue that all you need when assembling an engine is 'something slick' and that the type of oil/grease doesn't really make a difference. Others, of course, will refuse to use anything other than STP brand molasses. Damn that shit is nasty to deal with.

I use "Super-tech" oil for changes, for 1 qt. I substitute 100% synthetic and use Purolator filters, never a problem. I really think the oil industry in particular is subject to more hype than any other, I just had to LOL when Quaker state came out with "The intelligent oil", damm!, I've been putting "dumb" oil in my car all these years, thank god I'm an informed consumer now!..Seriously, all oil is put through tests to meet service "standards" classification (ie: SJ,ect), if the oil your going to use meets the service rating of your car maker states is needed your good to go.

[1prophet]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

It really didn't.



Ideally, I use proper assembly lube...kind of a light synthetic grease. It's very low-drag but will remain wherever you put it until it is washed away by oil. Not quite sure how that would scientifically be described. I guess technically the actual viscosity would be considered low- but it doesn't drain/pool like oil. AFAIK factory engines don't use anything special- but I believe they have the tools to properly prime them before the first start. Unless you've got something with an accessible oil pump drive (like the cam/distributor driven shaft on old V8's), the small-scale rebuilder typically won't have an easy way to prime, other than during assembly. That just leads to other relevent (at least I think so) questions...do the typical 'pack the oil pump with grease' method, or rely on a thin oil to get quickly pressurized and delivered? I pick grease.



[/ramble]

Easy and cheap way to prime



Take one of these, attach through adapter to oil pressure port on engine, usually near filter or pressure switch/sender, run 3 or 4 quarts through while rotating engine manually or by starter with fuel and ignition disabled then put plug back in, top off oil to full mark, crank engine should have instant oil pressure (if not find out why) re-enable fuel and ignition, start engine , check for leaks.

Hand packing oil pumps with grease is a no no because oil might not displace it, use petroleum jelly (Vaseline) instead.

[Zenmervolt]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

Someone actually recommends Pennzoil? I'm assuming this is fairly recent? That or Mobil1 has been around a lot longer than I thought.

I think Mobil 1 came onto the scene in the mid 1970's for consumers if I'm remembering correctly. I believe they had been manufacturing synthetic engine oils for military and industrial use in severe cold climates sometime in the 1960s (and synthetic greases for several years before that) but didn't put those oils on the consumer market initially.

[irrelevant rambling commencing]

Amsoil makes a big deal about being the first to market synthetics on the consumer market, but the fact is that Mobil had a decade or more head-start on actual development of synthetic lubrication. Indeed, given that the official Amsoil history says that the founder got the idea from the synthetic lubricants used in jets it's very likely that it was Mobil's industrial synthetics that inspired the creation of Amsoil for the consumer market.

[/rambling]

ZV

[phucheneh]

Originally Posted by 1prophet

Take one of these, attach through adapter to oil pressure port on engine, usually near filter or pressure switch/sender, run 3 or 4 quarts through while rotating engine manually or by starter with fuel and ignition disabled then put plug back in, top off oil to full mark, crank engine should have instant oil pressure (if not find out why) re-enable fuel and ignition, start engine , check for leaks.

Hand packing oil pumps with grease is a no no because oil might not displace it, use petroleum jelly (Vaseline) instead.

Are you talking about hooking it up to an oil pressure test port?

I guess anything that accesses the oil galleries would work....unscrew the sending unit if nothing else. Even if you don't build any real pressure, you should be able to at least saturate the bottom end and displace a lot of air.

That's a good idea. Kind of a 'duh, why didn't I think of that,' even. The earliest stuff I rebuilt were always engines where you could manipulate the engine's pump. On other stuff, it never even struck me to use an external device to pump some extra oil in. Just gotta make sure you keep an eye on the oil level; wouldn't want an overfill to cause aeration on a first start, obviously.

Wouldn't really need anything other than a fitting (often just an NPT part or something otherwise available at the hardware store) and your pumping device...hook 'em together with some rubber hose and some clamps and you're good to go. I've got a Nissan 4cyl I'm going to do pretty soon and I'll try this on it.

Oh, and yes, by 'grease' I did mean petroleum jelly. That's what I was taught to pack gear pumps with since the tolerances are very loose (relative to other types) and it should dissolve in the oil.


ZV - They fooled me, I guess. I had thought Mobil1 and most other synthetic brands had come to bear in the 80's and 90's. And I do indeed remember reading about Amsoil being the pioneer of synthetic. Guess I should have figured that was BS, since they've always been big on hype. Never understood their mileage claims; they seem to act like their oil is basically impervious to...well, everything. Except the presence of filterable solids, I guess.

[tuxmask]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

That said, I converted my vehicles over to synthetic and have had no ill side effects.

I have converted my vehicles over to synthesic and have had no ill side effects until the Toyota Avalon. I did it on Olds, Honda, Chrysler and have no problem. The Avalon end up with engine leak and cost a bundle to fix. I've read somewhere on the web that Toyota tend to have problem if you go dino to synth after the fact.