Why are Ford hybrid vehicles getting better (EPA) mileage than Toyota hybrids? UPDATE

[LTC8K6]

Interesting. I wonder what the problem is? Car and Driver noted some odd regen braking behavior in a Cmax.

The fact that the numbers seem to be lower than the earlier Fusion Hybrid is perplexing and suggests some sort of problem, I think.

[LTC8K6]

The lowest number at the EPA site lists 0 for city and highway percentages, so we should probably throw it out.

That would make the average 41.6 instead of 40.7

[Ferzerp]

Well, I will admit I'm not getting the EPA estimates on my ford either....

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally Posted by HybridSquirrel

the EPA estimate is 22mpg highway....I got 13mpg on my drive to SLC from Denver this weekend. No where near the estimate...

The old 2 cycle testing was simple highway/city so it made cars look like they got more gas mileage than they actually did. Another good example is the new Impreza...it gets no where near the rated MPG on the highway, because they advertise the old 2 cycle test rating.

Isn't that uphill most of the way? All testing is done on a dyno with flat road simulations. Going uphill is going to sap fuel, and so is it being new. I have the 5L v8 in my 2012 F150 and I get 18MPG combined and most of my driving is slow freeway driving during rush hours.

Originally Posted by hans007

Didn't the escape just get recalled like 2-3 times at launch. I like ford and they are making some good cars lately but I don't think they have near the reputation Toyota does even after the bogus acceleration fiasco

Toyotas are shit. I will never own another one. They can't make a truck that's worth using for anything, and their reliability is a damn lie. I've seen several newer model Tacomas and Tundras with frames that failed because they rusted through in under 2 years. Meanwhile, there are Fords, Chevy's and even Dodge trucks with hundreds of thousands of miles on them and they look like the only thing holding them together is a hope and a prayer, but they keep soildering on, getting used and abused daily, but they keep going.
Our Sienna was a complete POS. The damn door panel fell off.

[Pulsar]

I think, if you read deeply into many actual auto-enthuiast and hybrid-enthusiast forums, you'll find the answers there.

Many people are getting close to EPA estimates and are reporting that. The problem lies in the fact that the C-Max has power if you want to use it. It isn't completely detuned like a Prius. If you drive it with Prius style acceleration, you will see the EPA numbers. IF you drive it normally, you won't. Most people are reporting between 40 - 41 mpg.

Ford doesn't set the test. And I sincerely doubt they are lieing about the numbers they achieved on the test.

[Dari]

UPDATE II: Consumer Reports calls out Ford for false Fusion, C-Max hybrid fuel economy claims

[Doppel]

Disappointing but not surprising. I trust that Ford is using the genuine EPA process. I wonder if it needs to be updated. My last car was a Prius and, though it's a really great car, I can't lie: its mileage is lower than EPA claims. I know driving impacts things, but generally I've hit right on EPA in my cars give or take, and in the Prius frankly hitting the 50 mpg average just takes a very special set of conditions. It can be babied up to very high mileage, but I find that it's particularly intolerant of "uncareful" driving compared to other cars I've owned. It should also be noted that the third gen Prius overestimated mileage by about 5% on the trip computer itself, so even people's reports on fueleconomy.gov, for example, won't be necessarily accurate.

I'd still buy another, though.

[Imported]

Originally Posted by Doppel

Disappointing but not surprising. I trust that Ford is using the genuine EPA process. I wonder if it needs to be updated. My last car was a Prius and, though it's a really great car, I can't lie: its mileage is lower than EPA claims. I know driving impacts things, but generally I've hit right on EPA in my cars give or take, and in the Prius frankly hitting the 50 mpg average just takes a very special set of conditions. It can be babied up to very high mileage, but I find that it's particularly intolerant of "uncareful" driving compared to other cars I've owned. It should also be noted that the third gen Prius overestimated mileage by about 5% on the trip computer itself, so even people's reports on fueleconomy.gov, for example, won't be necessarily accurate.

I'd still buy another, though.

I'm making it a point to point out the trip computer MPG on my Fuelly updates for our Prius. I too notice it being off by 1-3mpg.

[JCH13]

Consumer Reports does a pretty good job explaining the discrepancies: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...2WSoM.facebook

[ElFenix]

Originally Posted by JCH13

Consumer Reports does a pretty good job explaining the discrepancies: http://news.consumerreports.org/cars...2WSoM.facebook

makes sense. the EPA highway test simulates a commute more than steady state highway driving. i wonder how the fords stack up on city mileage?

[Pulsar]

Originally Posted by ElFenix

makes sense. the EPA highway test simulates a commute more than steady state highway driving. i wonder how the fords stack up on city mileage?

That's a quality article. No beating on Ford, just a straight up "here's why" filled with very clear facts.

[HowlerMonkey]

Check the patents before you compare one brand to another.

Toyota licensed hybrid technology to ford many years ago.

[thedarkwolf]

Originally Posted by HowlerMonkey

Check the patents before you compare one brand to another.

Toyota licensed hybrid technology to ford many years ago.

[Pulsar]

Originally Posted by HowlerMonkey

Check the patents before you compare one brand to another.

Toyota licensed hybrid technology to ford many years ago.

Learn your automotive history.

Ford and Toyota independently developed hybrid technology. Toyota got it through the patent office first, effectively locking Ford out. As a result, Ford licensed some of their diesel technology cheaply to Toyota, and Toyota recipricated so that Ford could use their own in-house-developed-system without any infringment. Since then, the systems have become completely different, and no licensing by Ford (that I'm aware of) is required.

[HowlerMonkey]

Strange.....I thought it was Ferdinand Porsche who first developed hybrid technology.

Real world mileage claims in hybrids are dependant on the driver more than the platform.

[foghorn67]

The first few articles I read are the Fords beating the Toyota's by a hair in real world driving. But all makes and models miss their marks entirely.

[Doppel]

As I had thought, Ford is probably representing EPA fairly, but EPA needs to be redone:
http://consumerist.com/2012/12/14/fo...dvertised-mpg/

All cars tend to do worse in winter weather, but hybrids tend to do particularly badly. I don't know if the total percentage off general mileage is more severe, but a Prius that gets 48 in the summer can easily go to 41-42 in the winter. Also, that test sounds silly if the average speed for the highway test is 48. That's totally worthless. I don't know why EPA is so behind the times there, and it's amazing that so many vehicles are NOT wildly off with EPA.

[Ferzerp]

Originally Posted by Pulsar

Learn your automotive history.

Ford and Toyota independently developed hybrid technology. Toyota got it through the patent office first, effectively locking Ford out. As a result, Ford licensed some of their diesel technology cheaply to Toyota, and Toyota recipricated so that Ford could use their own in-house-developed-system without any infringment. Since then, the systems have become completely different, and no licensing by Ford (that I'm aware of) is required.

And Toyota invented regenerative braking! I saw it in a commercial!

Despite it being used on locomotives before Toyota even existed that is