Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Consumer Electronics > Audio/Video & Home Theater

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Home and Garden
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-22-2013, 10:27 AM   #1
13Gigatons
Diamond Member
 
13Gigatons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,131
Thumbs down 4K passthrough.....most pointless feature since DVD-RAM?

I love when "features" are completely useless but advertised on cheap AV gear. How long until 4K tv's reach a price point that it will be sold to someone buying a $180 AVR ?

Sigh...I still waiting for DVD-RAM!?!?!?!!!???!!??!
__________________
●●Win7 Upgrade **Matrix**●●

Last edited by allisolm; 02-22-2013 at 11:31 AM. Reason: moved from OT
13Gigatons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:28 AM   #2
drebo
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,653
Default

I love when people don't know how to properly use apostrophes.
__________________
"All men are not created equal, and if you believe they are, there's something seriously wrong with you. Some men are destined for greatness. Most aren't. End of story." - Jose Canseco
drebo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:40 AM   #3
13Gigatons
Diamond Member
 
13Gigatons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by drebo View Post
I love when people don't know how to properly use apostrophes.
I fixed it for you.
__________________
●●Win7 Upgrade **Matrix**●●
13Gigatons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:57 AM   #4
Red Squirrel
Lifer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 28,722
Default

Screw a 4k TV, I want a 4k computer monitor dammit! Resolutions have stagnated so much since widescreen came in the picture. (no pun intended). Then again, when I make a 800*600 rectangle in an image program and see the small space it occupies I realize we did come a long way... since the 2000's
__________________
~Red Squirrel~
486dx2 @66Mhz turbo, 8MB ram, 512MB HDD, sound blaster 16 + 2x cdrom, Trident 1MB video card @ 640*480, 56k high speed modem.
Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:08 AM   #5
Gunslinger08
Lifer
 
Gunslinger08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 13,114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
Screw a 4k TV, I want a 4k computer monitor dammit! Resolutions have stagnated so much since widescreen came in the picture. (no pun intended). Then again, when I make a 800*600 rectangle in an image program and see the small space it occupies I realize we did come a long way... since the 2000's
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROSSOVER-27...-/110867210291

I didn't buy from that seller, but I've had my 27Q for several months and I love it. 2560x1440 is awesome.
Gunslinger08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 AM   #6
Red Squirrel
Lifer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 28,722
Default

Holy crap, did not realize they actually went that high, guess you have to look further than NCIX/Tigerdirect to find them. So.....tempting.... but I really need to stop spending so much money on stuff.
__________________
~Red Squirrel~
486dx2 @66Mhz turbo, 8MB ram, 512MB HDD, sound blaster 16 + 2x cdrom, Trident 1MB video card @ 640*480, 56k high speed modem.
Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:20 AM   #7
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 14,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joshsquall View Post
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CROSSOVER-27...-/110867210291

I didn't buy from that seller, but I've had my 27Q for several months and I love it. 2560x1440 is awesome.
Psssh, only a paltry 2.5k.

LG (?) has a 30" 4k coming out. Other 4096x monitors run what, like $10k? Hopefully will be cheaper
__________________
Iraq has been like breaking a lamp in Pottery Barn. You break it, you buy it. Except you have to glue it back together. And you can never leave the store. Oh, and did I mention it was an exploding lamp?

BrunoPuntzJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:23 AM   #8
Sasqui
Member
 
Sasqui's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: New Hampster, USA
Posts: 37
Default

OLED... screw 4k
Sasqui is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:26 AM   #9
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 14,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasqui View Post
OLED... screw 4k
Yeah, manual transmissions all the way, screw bench seats

__________________
Iraq has been like breaking a lamp in Pottery Barn. You break it, you buy it. Except you have to glue it back together. And you can never leave the store. Oh, and did I mention it was an exploding lamp?

BrunoPuntzJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:27 AM   #10
mugs
Lifer
 
mugs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 48,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 13Gigatons View Post
I love when "features" are completely useless but advertised on cheap AV gear. How long until 4K tv's reach a price point that it will be sold to someone buying a $180 AVR ?

Sigh...I still waiting for DVD-RAM!?!?!?!!!???!!??!
This is why I don't buy Onkyo. Their sub-$500 AVRs all have features that are pointless in that price range but look nice on stickers. 8 HDMI ports and 4K are two of these features. Comparable receivers from other companies have Audyssey MultiEQ or MultiEQ XT, but Onkyos have crappy 2EQ.
__________________
"Eli doesn't have what it takes to beat the Patriots in the big show. This game will be over by halftime." - PaulNEPats a.k.a. Reckoner; Super Bowl XLII

"Giants are the luckiest team I've ever seen in my entire life" - Reckoner; Super Bowl XLVI
mugs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:45 AM   #11
Eug
Lifer
 
Eug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,066
Default

Heh, I had a DVD-RAM recorder for TV -PVR - for quite some time back before they finally started including hard drives on entry level models. It was great.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mugs View Post
This is why I don't buy Onkyo. Their sub-$500 AVRs all have features that are pointless in that price range but look nice on stickers. 8 HDMI ports and 4K are two of these features. Comparable receivers from other companies have Audyssey MultiEQ or MultiEQ XT, but Onkyos have crappy 2EQ.
I'd take the unit with more HDMI ports myself. Maybe not eight but 6 would be nice.
__________________

OS X: 27" iMac Core i7 870 | 13" MacBook Pro C2D 2.26 P8400 + SSD | 13" MacBook C2D 2.4 T8300 + SSD
iOS: iPad Air 2 | iPad 2 | iPhone 5s
Windows: X3400 Athlon II X3 435 | 11.6" 1810TZ Pentium SU4100 + SSD | Revo R3610 Atom 330 + SSD
Android: Nexus 7 (2012)

Last edited by Eug; 02-22-2013 at 11:47 AM.
Eug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:53 AM   #12
gorb
Senior Member
 
gorb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: fort worth, tx
Posts: 577
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mugs View Post
This is why I don't buy Onkyo. Their sub-$500 AVRs all have features that are pointless in that price range but look nice on stickers. 8 HDMI ports and 4K are two of these features. Comparable receivers from other companies have Audyssey MultiEQ or MultiEQ XT, but Onkyos have crappy 2EQ.
The NR818 is the cheapest AVR with XT32 as far as I know
gorb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:30 PM   #13
brainhulk
Diamond Member
 
brainhulk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,898
Default

4k passthrough is gonna be funny if they change to a new hdmi cable requirement for 4k
brainhulk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:52 PM   #14
Red Squirrel
Lifer
 
Red Squirrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 28,722
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainhulk View Post
4k passthrough is gonna be funny if they change to a new hdmi cable requirement for 4k
I can totally see that happening actually.

Also we're due for a new optical disc format. Bluray XL. Double the capacity! Everybody will need to buy new players again.
__________________
~Red Squirrel~
486dx2 @66Mhz turbo, 8MB ram, 512MB HDD, sound blaster 16 + 2x cdrom, Trident 1MB video card @ 640*480, 56k high speed modem.
Red Squirrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:10 PM   #15
Aikouka
Lifer
 
Aikouka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,758
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brainhulk View Post
4k passthrough is gonna be funny if they change to a new hdmi cable requirement for 4k
HDMI 1.4 supports 4K transmission at 24Hz.
Aikouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:28 PM   #16
Eug
Lifer
 
Eug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aikouka View Post
HDMI 1.4 supports 4K transmission at 24Hz.
Yes, but that doesn't guarantee that consumer 4K will be using HDMI as the standard.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, consumer 4K is unlikely to get huge adoption anyway, so with that and not knowing the interface standard for it, I wouldn't waste my time with trying to future proof for it.
__________________

OS X: 27" iMac Core i7 870 | 13" MacBook Pro C2D 2.26 P8400 + SSD | 13" MacBook C2D 2.4 T8300 + SSD
iOS: iPad Air 2 | iPad 2 | iPhone 5s
Windows: X3400 Athlon II X3 435 | 11.6" 1810TZ Pentium SU4100 + SSD | Revo R3610 Atom 330 + SSD
Android: Nexus 7 (2012)
Eug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:43 PM   #17
Fallen Kell
Diamond Member
 
Fallen Kell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
Screw a 4k TV, I want a 4k computer monitor dammit! Resolutions have stagnated so much since widescreen came in the picture. (no pun intended). Then again, when I make a 800*600 rectangle in an image program and see the small space it occupies I realize we did come a long way... since the 2000's
Not really... The 21" CRT I was using from ~1998-2003 supported 1880 x 1440 with a refresh rate of 170Hz.... There is yet to be a LCD monitor that can even do 120Hz properly at any resolution, and that 1880 x 1440 resolution is about the same pixel density as current monitors as well. From a purely graphical analysis, the CRT was much better technology, supporting much higher frame rates, better/more accurate color space, infinitely blacker blacks, non-existent image ghosting, uniform pixel color change times, color change times that are still 20-50 times faster than current monitors....

The trade-off is that those weighed 50lbs and used 5-10x the power, and took up a lot more desk space. To be honest, 15 years of "new" technology hasn't even caught up to the image/screen quality as the old technology it replaced....
__________________
We were all warned of MS problems many years ago; remember how the Magic 8 Ball always said: "Outlook not so good"?
Server
HTPC
Fallen Kell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 05:46 PM   #18
Fallen Kell
Diamond Member
 
Fallen Kell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,987
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Yes, but that doesn't guarantee that consumer 4K will be using HDMI as the standard.

Anyways, as far as I'm concerned, consumer 4K is unlikely to get huge adoption anyway, so with that and not knowing the interface standard for it, I wouldn't waste my time with trying to future proof for it.
The interface standard is known, and it is called HDMI 2.0.
__________________
We were all warned of MS problems many years ago; remember how the Magic 8 Ball always said: "Outlook not so good"?
Server
HTPC
Fallen Kell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 06:34 PM   #19
bearxor
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 6,520
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Kell View Post
To be honest, 15 years of "new" technology hasn't even caught up to the image/screen quality as the old technology it replaced....
I'll quote this for truth. CRT monitors still produce a superior picture. But the trade offs are well worth it at this point.
__________________
This post paid for by the committee to re-invade Vietnam.
bearxor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 06:43 PM   #20
BrunoPuntzJones
Lifer
 
BrunoPuntzJones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 14,406
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearxor View Post
I'll quote this for truth. CRT monitors still produce a superior picture. But the trade offs are well worth it at this point.
I hear this a lot, that LCDs haven't matched CRTs. And I agree, at the consumer level anyway. But what about production? Do the Sony flat panels out there stand up to their old CRT counterparts?

Not their $2k CAD monitors, but the $20k+ broadcast/production monitors.
__________________
Iraq has been like breaking a lamp in Pottery Barn. You break it, you buy it. Except you have to glue it back together. And you can never leave the store. Oh, and did I mention it was an exploding lamp?

BrunoPuntzJones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 07:37 PM   #21
Eug
Lifer
 
Eug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallen Kell View Post
The interface standard is known, and it is called HDMI 2.0.
1) The standard doesn't even officially exist yet.
2) There is no guarantee yet that 4K will be using it in the long run.
__________________

OS X: 27" iMac Core i7 870 | 13" MacBook Pro C2D 2.26 P8400 + SSD | 13" MacBook C2D 2.4 T8300 + SSD
iOS: iPad Air 2 | iPad 2 | iPhone 5s
Windows: X3400 Athlon II X3 435 | 11.6" 1810TZ Pentium SU4100 + SSD | Revo R3610 Atom 330 + SSD
Android: Nexus 7 (2012)
Eug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 09:51 PM   #22
Anteaus
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
1) The standard doesn't even officially exist yet.
2) There is no guarantee yet that 4K will be using it in the long run.
Might not be "officially" released yet, but there is enough documentation out there to not only confirm that it is near release but also that 4K is being specifically addressed. No one can speak for 8 years from now, but for the forseeable future HDMI 2.X is going to be the defacto standard for 4K.

I know there is a push for HDBaseT, but so far they have yet to gain any traction with it, whereas HDMI 2.0 devices will be backwards compatible with 1.X devices which will help with adoption. Also, HDBaseT won't offer anything that HDMI 2.X won't already provide. My guess if it does finally come out, it will be provided alongside HDMI, and not as a replacement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

Version 2.0
The HDMI Forum is working on the HDMI 2.0 specification.In a 2012 CES press release HDMI Licensing, LLC stated that the expected release date for the next version of HDMI was the second half of 2012 and that important improvements needed for HDMI include increased bandwidth to allow for higher resolutions and broader video timing support. Longer term goals for HDMI include better support for mobile devices and improved control functions.
On January 8, 2013, HDMI Licensing, LLC announced that the next HDMI version is being worked on by the 83 members of the HDMI Forum and that it is expected to be released in the first half of 2013.Based on HDMI Forum meetings it is expected that HDMI 2.0 will increase the maximum TMDS per channel throughput from 3.4 Gbit/s to 6 Gbit/s which would allow a maximum total TMDS throughput of 18 Gbit/s. This will allow HDMI 2.0 to support 4K resolution at 60 frames per second (fps). Other features that are expected for HDMI 2.0 include support for 4:2:0 chroma subsampling, support for 25 fps 3D formats, improved 3D capability, support for more than 8 channels of audio, support for the HE-AAC and DRA audio standards, dynamic auto lip-sync, and additional CEC functions.[
Anteaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 10:24 PM   #23
Eug
Lifer
 
Eug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 18,066
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anteaus View Post
Might not be "officially" released yet, but there is enough documentation out there to not only confirm that it is near release but also that 4K is being specifically addressed. No one can speak for 8 years from now, but for the forseeable future HDMI 2.X is going to be the defacto standard for 4K.
Well, I guess the other unsaid point (which I've made in other threads) is that I do not see truly significant 4K adoption in the consumer market in the near to mid-term, meaning in the next 5 years.

Yeah, 4K will be available in TVs, but nobody will care.

And 5 years is not that far off from 8 years.
__________________

OS X: 27" iMac Core i7 870 | 13" MacBook Pro C2D 2.26 P8400 + SSD | 13" MacBook C2D 2.4 T8300 + SSD
iOS: iPad Air 2 | iPad 2 | iPhone 5s
Windows: X3400 Athlon II X3 435 | 11.6" 1810TZ Pentium SU4100 + SSD | Revo R3610 Atom 330 + SSD
Android: Nexus 7 (2012)
Eug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 11:16 PM   #24
Anteaus
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,061
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Well, I guess the other unsaid point (which I've made in other threads) is that I do not see truly significant 4K adoption in the consumer market in the near to mid-term, meaning in the next 5 years.

Yeah, 4K will be available in TVs, but nobody will care.

And 5 years is not that far off from 8 years.
Fair enough. I've have a more comprehensive response to your statement in other threads, but all I'd like to say is that consider that the market contains all sorts of people and while you might not see the significance, that doesn't necessarily mean demand won't be there. 1080P took awhile to saturate because content was expensive and HD broadcasting didn't appear until later. Films had to be scanned into the new medium and cable/sat infrastructure had to be updated.

Virtually every film that was scanned for HD was scanned at 4K minimum with later releases at 8k for future proofing. As soon as a delivery medium is developed tons of content will be ready to go. Also, streaming compression has greatly improved and its a short jump to 4K for those that have the bandwidth.

Of course none of this means 4K tvs will sell well and you may be right, but my point is 4K is far more market ready than 1080P was at release (720P was a distraction) and as soon as they are standardized and prices become reasonable the question won't be if you want a 4K, it will be why wouldn't you. Naturally I'm talking 2 years from now. Mainstream 4K is still a ways off.
Anteaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2013, 01:36 AM   #25
13Gigatons
Diamond Member
 
13Gigatons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,131
Default

We still haven't seen any 1440p TV's in the market. They will be first before 4K ever shows up for consumers.
__________________
●●Win7 Upgrade **Matrix**●●
13Gigatons is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.