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Old 02-22-2013, 02:49 AM   #126
wand3r3r
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BallaTheFeared View Post
Damage control mode enabled.

Do you guys ever get tried of trying to make excuses for AMD's drivers?

Titan is extremely overpriced and CF is a non option, let's just try being honest with ourselves.
I'm not making any excuses. I also haven't used crossfire (this gen.) nor radeonpro so I can't confirm if it's an option. Get a couple cheap used cards and see if it's as good/bad as you think.
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Old 02-22-2013, 02:50 AM   #127
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Wasting money isn't a luxury I can afford, otherwise I'd buy a Titan.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:11 AM   #128
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I wouldn't go recommending CF 79x0 cards a viable solution. I tried CF 7950s and the amount of jumping through hoops to reduce stutter was prohibitive. Don't get me wrong, it is possible to increase eye candy and get higher FPS compared to a single card. You just have to get around the fact that you are reducing average FPS from say 60 to 40. So you are gaining a large FPS increase but you have to throw it all away to achieve a smooth experience.

To me that seems to defy the entire reason for going CF.
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:23 AM   #129
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I have to admit to admiring AMD hardware for the 7 series, I just wish they had NV driver software team behind them...time for another car analogy........the most powerful engine is nothing without the delivery system and vehicle stability.....LOL
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Old 02-22-2013, 03:58 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by SolMiester View Post
I have to admit to admiring AMD hardware for the 7 series, I just wish they had NV driver software team behind them...time for another car analogy........the most powerful engine is nothing without the delivery system and vehicle stability.....LOL
The problem here is you and most others who make such claims/analogies do so using simple and wrong logic. Your analogy assumes AMD driver are always broken and never work.

AMD driver do not always = fail
Nvidia driver do not always = win

In my GTX 6x0 vs HD 79x0 experience Nvidia have actually fared no better than AMD in fixing issues. Serious vsync stutter plagued my GTX 680 for around 4-5 months. That is an experience that seriously soured Nvidia drivers for me.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:39 AM   #131
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I could afford it if I wanted to, but the price is a bit too high and/or the performance is a bit too low for me. There's also the fear that Nvidia will release an even better 15 SMX part in the future. It's still pretty tempting, but I think I'm going to hold off for a bit.
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Old 02-22-2013, 05:52 AM   #132
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Titan is amazing in my book for a single gpu solution, but sucks at price/performance ratio.
I have SLI 680, and in back of my mind I was thinking that if Titan was somehow properly priced I'd sell my SLI and probably pay to get Titan SLI. (If I could find 2 cards :p )
But at that crazy price point I don't even consider it. It's a bad investment in my book especially with the multi gpu configurations and their respective performance you can get for the same or lower price. No thanks it's only for those that only want the best no matter how much they are gonna pay.
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:39 AM   #133
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In my case, I'll just wait until games get more demanding in 2014+ and consider picking up Maxwell instead. I have no interest in paying early adopter price premium to future-proof for next gen games that won't be out until PS4/720 drop.
Exactly.

With a current gen card in my case, a single 1080p screen, there is nothing on the horizon that could rationalize such a purchase at this moment. (Besides, She would kill me, though I gave her $15k the other day for "shopping". Oh well, priorities...)

Tom's sums it up pretty nicely me thinks:
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...w,3442-13.html
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:49 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pariah View Post
The only way we are getting a Titan level card in 15-18 months as you speculate is if the refresh expected early next year is skipped, which is not likely. We're not getting a new architecture 3-6 months after a refresh.
AMD didn't say they will refresh HD7970GE with a 15-20% part. We don't know. They cold be waiting until 20nm and skip the refresh. 20nm manufacturing starts in Q4 2013 and AMD has no new product until 2014. They didn't specify when they are launching HD8970 either. Also, it's possible to have a new card come out 3-6 months on a new node even after the refresh. They did this when HD4890 came out in April 2009 (4870 refresh) and then launched a 40nm HD5870 in September of 2009!
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:51 AM   #135
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lol 1600p, what joke post.
A joke post? So you ignored the 1080P and 1600P performance numbers? You pulled 40-50% faster than HD7970GE on average out of thin air. The Titan is nowhere near that fast on average. Stop making up facts or link reviews where the Titan without overclocking is on average 40-50% faster than an HD7970GE.

"The average gain over the 7970GE is almost right in the middle at 34%" ~ AnandTech Review




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Old 02-22-2013, 07:10 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by wand3r3r View Post
70% performance = 30% of the price

$1200 vs. $3000!!!!
They live in dream world where $ doesn't matter for 20-30 more FPS. I would hope that a $3000 worth of GPU setup would annihilate HD7970 Tri-Fire / GTX680 Tri-SLI but yet it doesn't.

The Titan at 1Ghz is going to be barely 30% faster on average than an average overclocked HD7970 (not even discussing a 1300mhz Asus Matrix for example). Computerbase review shows this since their maxed out Titan card is on average just 35-38% faster than a stock HD7970GE. 7970s overclock to 1150-1200mhz easily which would make up 8-14% of that advantage since HD7970 scales almost linearly with overclocking.

In AT's review the Titan boosted to nearly 1Ghz in almost all games and average performance over HD7970GE was just 34%.



Overclock maxed out at just 1019mhz. All other websites reached very similar overclocking results on air which means it's end of the line for Titan on air at 1.2V and 106% power target.

You are paying $1000 for a card that's going to be just 30% faster on average when comparing Titan OC vs. HD7970 OC on air.

Can't even get 40 fps in Crysis 3 without MSAA/SMAA!


Even at HardwareCanucks where their card reached 1162mhz (!), the performance gain was minimal over the stock 878mhz Titan because of Titan's initial Boost in games to nearly 1Ghz:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html

HD7970GE also overclocks well and scales with overclocking:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-20.html

HD7970 1Ghz with a great cooler and 5 free games can be had in Canada for $380. In the US, you can find HD7970s for $360-430, easily. Only the biggest NV fans would defend a card that's going to end up less than 40% faster on average for > 2.5x the price when comparing stock vs. stock or Titan OC vs. HD7970 OC on air.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:17 AM   #137
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This card is way overpriced, so no. Even if I had the money, which I don't, I wouldn't, as I don't believe in wasting money on high end products when 1-3 notches down gives you much better performance per dollar. (AKA 7950's, 670s)
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:36 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RussianSensation View Post
They live in dream world where $ doesn't matter for 20-30 more FPS. I would hope that a $3000 worth of GPU setup would annihilate HD7970 Tri-Fire / GTX680 Tri-SLI but yet it doesn't.

The Titan at 1Ghz is going to be barely 30% faster on average than an average overclocked HD7970 (not even discussing a 1300mhz Asus Matrix for example). Computerbase review shows this since their maxed out Titan card is on average just 35-38% faster than a stock HD7970GE. 7970s overclock to 1150-1200mhz easily which would make up 8-14% of that advantage since HD7970 scales almost linearly with overclocking.

In AT's review the Titan boosted to nearly 1Ghz in almost all games and average performance over HD7970GE was just 34%.



Overclock maxed out at just 1019mhz. All other websites reached very similar overclocking results on air which means it's end of the line for Titan on air at 1.2V and 106% power target.

You are paying $1000 for a card that's going to be just 30% faster on average when comparing Titan OC vs. HD7970 OC on air.

Can't even get 40 fps in Crysis 3 without MSAA/SMAA!


Even at HardwareCanucks where their card reached 1162mhz (!), the performance gain was minimal over the stock 878mhz Titan because of Titan's initial Boost in games to nearly 1Ghz:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-18.html

HD7970GE also overclocks well and scales with overclocking:
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...review-20.html

HD7970 1Ghz with a great cooler and 5 free games can be had in Canada for $380. In the US, you can find HD7970s for $360-430, easily. Only the biggest NV fans would defend a card that's going to end up less than 40% faster on average for > 2.5x the price when comparing stock vs. stock or Titan OC vs. HD7970 OC on air.
According to some other sites the average difference is even less, in computerbase.de tests titan is only 22% faster on average then 7970GE at 2560x1600 with MSAA/AF, with some good OC on 7970 you can match that. 1300MHz on the core isn't exactly unheard of.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:46 AM   #139
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I can tell you that each of the phases in Titans VRM circuitry can handle up to 50As, equating into something along the lines of ~60W per phase i.e. a total power capability of ~360Ws well enough to handle heavy duty loads.

edit - and yeah I might buy it on my next paycheck.
But NV artificially limit the card's TDP at 106% of 250W and you can only draw up to 300W with 6pin+8pin without going out of spec.(75W+75W+150W)
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:50 AM   #140
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I'm curious as to why no one factors in the fact that titan can be unlocked for compute functions(is it not what I'm thinking it is?). Aren't the tesla cards around 4K? I understand this doesn't mean a whole lot for gamers and such but still, in that respect you are getting a top of the line graphics card can also be used for work.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:02 AM   #141
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I'm curious as to why no one factors in the fact that titan can be unlocked for compute functions(is it not what I'm thinking it is?). Aren't the tesla cards around 4K? I understand this doesn't mean a whole lot for gamers and such but still, in that respect you are getting a top of the line graphics card can also be used for work.
AMD's cards never had artificially capped DP performance, yeah, we should be ecstatic that NV finally did the same for their modestly priced card.
That card can be a great value for someone who needs both CUDA and DP performance compared to other NV solutions, still we gamers would be way happier with a TITAN at 700$ with DP performance capped at 1/24.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:04 AM   #142
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I have a Titan pre-ordered.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:13 AM   #143
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The cards went on pre-sale in my country and the cheapest titan is 25%(!!!) more expensive then the cheapest GTX690. Great value indeed!
10 cards for sale, none sold so far, maybe people aren't as stupid as I thought they would be, at least in my country. That GTX690 is actually quite a good deal, only 2.3x times more expensive than 7970.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:37 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by wand3r3r View Post
I agree that they had better take it seriously and improve it.

@NVIDIOTS
It sounds like they're desperately starting to beat on the sales drum.

Now that crossfire beats titanic (whether it's worse experience or not idk, radeonpro etc) suddenly it's time to quit 'sugarcoating' it and attacking crossfire? Sounds like the focus from NV to try smear crossfire. These attempts appear to be desperately trying to justify the extremely high price of the titan. Are you shareholders or employees with all of this new desperation to smear crossfire. (I don't use crossfire myself but suddenly this is the new drumbeat from team green?)


Now a very bad example to complete the post.

If you look briefly at the numbers posted above.

3 way crossfire is nearly around (trading blows) the level of 3 way titan in those four games.

3 x $400 = ~1200
3 x $1000 = $3000

They are pretty close in BF3, Anno, Sleeping dogs, Hitman.

Say you have a 30% penalty for Radeonpro (guessing, don't see minimums).
Now you have 3 crossfire running around 70% of 3 sli in those four games.

70% performance = 30% of the price

$1200 vs. $3000!!!!

Or 140% of the performance for 300% of the price.

Sure these numbers are only showing a small part of the picture, but the premium is so bad that the only way you can defend it is if you have commercial interest in NV, or are extremely wealthy, or are a fool.

I don't have 2/3 7970's to try see the stutter myself, but those who are so vehemently attacking crossfire suddenly should be attacking NV's outrageous rip off unless they really have ties to NV.
Imho,

What can ya do?

All those points can be made for Sli as well -- the key is Titan is priced high so they don't cannibalize sales and protect their margins. nVidia probably would desire gamers to buy GTX 680's, 670's and 660 ti's at their MSRP's and Sli flexibility instead of a low volume part like Titan.

Also by placing TiTan so high protects future margins if nVidia offers a refresh of the GK-104 with the Gk-114.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:49 AM   #145
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What's with the accusation? No ties to NV here...that is uncalled for.

As for the validity, CF stuttering has been under investigation from many sites for years now, so this is nothing new. The 40+% gains on the other hand I have never seen before in case of the 7950. Maybe I missed it, that certainly is a possibility.

As for pricing: I just cancelled my two Titans that I ordered in a weak moment (580 SLI getting old...). What does that tell you?
This was just in response to those people who think CF is an alternative with such good value. It isn't. A single 7970@OC on the other hand very much is.

Personally I'm left without any options currently which I quite hate:
580 3GB SLI too slow
670/680 4GB (not downgrading to 2GB) SLI too expensive as a short term solution, especially with watercooling in mind. I'll never go back to air cooling.
And any single GPU solution doesn't provide me with any performance benefit over my current solution
CF is out of the question as you can easily guess.

Where does that leave me? I hate Nvidia as much as everyone else right now for their pricing. Now I have to wait until GTX780 or better Maxwell while games like Tomb Raider and Crysis 3 are out. This sucks!

Sadly, the gamers that waited patiently for the monolith replacement for Fermi were rewarded with a 100 percent MSRP increase.

They could be some backlash and would be interested to see how the market reacts. I doubt it though because of sku's like the 8800 ultra didn't.
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Old 02-22-2013, 08:52 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by SirPauly View Post
Sadly, the gamers that waited patiently for the monolith replacement for Fermi were rewarded with a 100 percent MSRP increase.

They could be some backlash and would be interested to see how the market reacts. I doubt it though because of sku's like the 8800 ultra didn't.
Sadly...the gamers think this card is solely for them. It's not.

The only backlash is from those that realize they're not seeing the card for what it is, only what they hoped it would be.
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:03 AM   #147
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I'm probably going to order a Titan. I'm tired of dealing with the issues of my tri-crossfire 6950 setup. Eventually I plan on ordering a second Titan (and maybe a third later).
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:07 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Sadly...the gamers think this card is solely for them. It's not.

The only backlash is from those that realize they're not seeing the card for what it is, only what they hoped it would be.

Imho,

When companies have competitive advantages or opportunities predator instincts take over by devouring value and feeding dollars from consumers. One did see it with AMD by raising MSRP's by 50 percent and with nVidia now and a few generations ago -- the G-80 with the 8800 Ultra.

This is the first time there is this kind of gaming separation from the monolith since the G-80 - an experiment of sorts -- a grand experiment -- to see how the market reacts to this pricing tier with an innovative core that brings gaming and super-computer prowess.

Will be interesting to watch how the market reacts to AMD and nVidia this year!

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Old 02-22-2013, 09:11 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Sadly...the gamers think this card is solely for them. It's not.

The only backlash is from those that realize they're not seeing the card for what it is, only what they hoped it would be.
Yea, I think probably more Titans will be sold as "cheap" GP-GPU cards than gaming cards

It makes sense. If nVidia can take the good dies and sell them for tons of money in another market, why would they dump them in the consumer market for $500? We might not like it, but that is the way it is...
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Old 02-22-2013, 09:15 AM   #150
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If was in the market for a high-end GPU, Titan wouldn't look attractive to me. If Nvidia set a 3GB version of this for 700USD (whatever that would be in in the UK) then it would look a great choice but 1000USD/830GBP for a 6GB? Nope. I would rather wait for Maxwell or Volcanic Islands but I'm not sure if those will come out in 2014 since Apple probably going to be a greedy pig.

Not saying its a bad product but it just looks too overpriced for what it is.

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