Obama Care is a disaster

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by bdunosk

An MRI typically runs $2000 - 5000, including both the technical and professional fees. That's not what is paid, but what is generally quoted as the "cost." It's a shame that they're charging that much, it's grossly inflated.

I was expecting maybe a $4000-6000 bill but opening the bills to find over $50,000 is crazy.

[Slew Foot]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674

I was expecting maybe a $4000-6000 bill but opening the bills to find over $50,000 is crazy.

Actual reimbursement for an MRI is typically around 1000 bucks, that includes both technical and professional fees.

[bdunosk]

Originally Posted by Slew Foot

Actual reimbursement for an MRI is typically around 1000 bucks, that includes both technical and professional fees.

Sounds about right... but even that will vary depending on who / how it's paid. I've heard the professional fee collected is usually ~$200-250.

[Zorkorist]

Originally Posted by Hayabusa Rider

What we need to do is have a bunch of politicians who don't know anything and can only spend a fraction of the needed time on this create a partisan system of stuff, call it UHC, and shove it down our throats without any real understanding of what's needed, indeed, ignorant of the basics.

That will show us who's boss. Next up, Congress build a nuke plant of their own design.

No, Hayabusa... what we need, are people to democratically vote on it.

-John

[Zorkorist]

Originally Posted by Zebo

I'd rather to back to the 1960s when HC was cheap and you wrote a $10 check to your doctor. My parents didn't even have health insurance with 8 kids until like 1980. Didnt need it. Everything was so damn cheap. But baring that return to a truly capitalist system you must have Euro style or else run away costs occur.

Absolutely the way health care should be done.

Government, Lawyers, and Insurance companies have destroyed America with their greed.

-John

[Corn]

Originally Posted by boomerang

You've got your own forum for all that. The forum where everything is all neat, tidy, orderly and sanitized, where everybody extends their pinkies when they post and farts don't smell. Rule as the overlord in that one and let the rest of us post what we will here.

Micromanaging control freaks. Just can't get enough of that!

What the hell is wrong with you?

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by boomerang
You've got your own forum for all that. The forum where everything is all neat, tidy, orderly and sanitized, where everybody extends their pinkies when they post and farts don't smell. Rule as the overlord in that one and let the rest of us post what we will here.

Micromanaging control freaks. Just can't get enough of that!

Originally Posted by Corn

What the hell is wrong with you?

He's right, what's wrong with you?

Go there since you love it so much and stay out of here.

[waggy]

I do think we need to fix health care. I do NOT think obamacare is the answer though. Even before it was changed it didn't take care of the core problem. Private health insurance company's.

With it getting slashed it now really hurts the lower income level but not the poor.

it has turned into a mess.

[nehalem256]

Originally Posted by waggy

I do think we need to fix health care. I do NOT think obamacare is the answer though. Even before it was changed it didn't take care of the core problem. Private health insurance company's.
.

Private insurance is not the problem. Liberals just make them the whipping boy for everything because it is the only way to there single-payer dream.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by bdunosk

There's more... ultimately, I would pose questions to the proponents of Obamacare / socialized medicine: Why does the gov't exempt others and themselves from participation if this is such a good program?

Could you please describe your ideal health care program?

How would the poor and lower classes pay for and afford their health care under your proposed system?

What would prevent insurance companies from establishing "death panels" where employees would receive bonuses or commissions for figuring out ways to rescind coverage to sick people?

Would it be necessary for people to hire lawyers to review all health insurance contracts?

Why aren't people in the evil socialist "people's states" (as Ayn Rand liked to call them) marching and demanding an end to socialized medicine and the establishment of a more American system? Are they too sick?

[Thebobo]

Originally Posted by boomerang

.....Should I continually rant about the Great Society agenda of LBJ? Wouldn't garner me much respect would it? Get my point or is too obscure for you?

Yes but the Great Society was to the benefit of the citizens not some oil companies, the military industrial complex or spending trillions of dollars on a fake war and needlessly killing over 4000 US citizens, over a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians in the so called name protecting our freedom.

My selfish favorite GS accomplishments mostly thanks to Interior Secretary Stuart Udall

Wilderness Act of 1964
National Trails System Act of 1968
Wild and Scenic Rivers Act of 1968

Ops sorry for the off topic ~

[Tom]

Originally Posted by MeowKat

Collectively, our stories also have nothing to do with the cost of healthcare.

If you mean everyone's stories then of course they do.

But there's no way to get from one individual incident, which we don't even have all of the facts, to present an argument that healthcare inflation hasn't been going down.

If his bill was $50k tihs year, how much would it have been last year ? And how much every year for the past 20 ?

Without that info it has nothing to do with what I said.

And the amount billed isn't the cost of healthcare. Its the amount paid. Healthcare providers sign agreements with health insurance providers to accept certain amounts for services, those prices are often way lower than the initial bill.

That's one of the problems with people not having insurance. Or inadequate insurance. Both things that Obamacare will try to address.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674

Between the two insurance companies they paid $10,000 leaving over $40,000 still outstanding being billed to me.

From what you'ver posted it doesn't sound like you had health insurance.

A medical cost portion of motorcycle insurance is not health insurance.

Accident insurance of any kind is not health insurance.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674

Imagine if there was something that actually required either of us to be admitted?

Imagine if there was an injury that they could actually do anything about?

We both had broken ribs and her a broken collar bone as well.

Nothing that could be casted or anything.

Just given a few pain pills.

This country is just plain nuts, nothing else could be said.

Its not the country that's nuts. People who think they can beat the odds and make it through life without real health insurance are one of the things Obamacare is going to address to some extent.

That's the whole point of mandatory health care insurance.

[bdunosk]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Could you please describe your ideal health care program?

Sure. I'm not going to argue whether this is really feasible, rather the ideal we should be working toward.

- Eliminate red tape as much as possible. Put healthcare back in the hands of physicians rather than lawyers and business people.

- Basic coverage for everyone, but it's a no-frills service. Most people will not be happy about this - not because it's bad medical care, but rather because it wouldn't cater to the "gotta have it right now / designer medicine" attitude we've come to expect in this country. This would require a shift to primary care physicians, which is an issue because it's not the most desirable pathway for graduating medical students.

- A higher service tier, which is private pay. Want your MRI right now? You got it. Less than X% chance to survive that ailment? We'll still treat it (yes, this means rationing care in the basic tier; heartless, I know, but a lot of the most expensive things we do in the US are done when there is almost no chance for survival)

- Malpractice litigation system replaced with a "military tribunal," staffed with a panel of physicians (including representatives from primary care, surgery, radiology, pathology) from that state who have to volunteer some amount of time to review cases. Our current system can't distinguish between a bad outcome and malpractice, which isn't surprising given the amount of education you need to become an attending physician.

- Nationwide electronic health record.

[Exterous]

Originally Posted by umbrella39

Thank you for your efforts and cutting through the bull sactoking.

Originally Posted by dmcowen674

Originally Posted by boomerang
You've got your own forum for all that. The forum where everything is all neat, tidy, orderly and sanitized, where everybody extends their pinkies when they post and farts don't smell. Rule as the overlord in that one and let the rest of us post what we will here.

Micromanaging control freaks. Just can't get enough of that!




He's right, what's wrong with you?

Go there since you love it so much and stay out of here.

Completely not related to the thread but I find it interesting/slightly amusing that the Debate Club admissions have created one the of the very few topics dmcowen and boomerang might agree on

[Acanthus]

Honestly it would be hard for any agency to predict exactly what is going to happen when Obamacare actually kicks in...

Right now the billing in hospitals is so screwed up from people with inability to pay that there are 20 different rates for the same services depending on your insurance, group coverage, affiliate procedures, separate clinic locations, income levels, state assistance programs, charitable contributions, etc...

If you get to a system where "most" people are covered for "most" things, that stupid billing can be abandoned. You wont have to "price-in" people with no ability to pay into your paying customers bills anymore.

My bet is on greed on the other hand. I think hospitals will keep the shitty billing, keep prices the same, and rake in profit / expand to further levels of stupidity.

There is a massive healthcare bubble in the United States and it is unsustainable. All of the signs are there. I honestly believe it will be our ~2020 American recession.

[FerrelGeek]

Originally Posted by marincounty

No, RepulicansDontCare is a disaster. My health care costs go up 15% per year, and because I have pre-existing conditions I can't change plans.
Americans pay more and get worse care than any other first world country.
Obamacare is what Republicans proposed. Single payer is what we need.

Yeah, that's why reps didn't vote for this steaming pile of dung and Obama had to bribe certain congressdrones to get them to vote for it.

[dmcowen674]

Originally Posted by dmcowen674
Between the two insurance companies they paid $10,000 leaving over $40,000 still outstanding being billed to me

Originally Posted by Tom

From what you'ver posted it doesn't sound like you had health insurance.

A medical cost portion of motorcycle insurance is not health insurance.

Accident insurance of any kind is not health insurance.

What?

I pay $550 a month towards Health Insurance plan through work.

Most of my colleagues swear it's great insurance.

[Juddog]

What we need is pretty simple, how the dems and repubs screwed it up beyond belief is hard to understand.

* Eliminate the insurance companies, pay the government directly who pays the hospital directly, let the middle man die off
* Regulate prices so that hospitals aren't charging $500 to bring you a boiled hot dog for dinner and $5000 for an xray. One standard price for one standard procedure, adjusted by inflation
* Put a cap on malpactice suits to lower insurance costs for doctors and hospitals
* Increase the hard cap on the number of doctors that are allowed to exit medical school each year so that we have more doctors internally
* Eliminate advertising for big pharma (spending hundreds of millions on advertising for prescription drugs is ludicrous)
* Data mine surgical procedures to find which ones are the best, not which ones cost the most to give the doctor the most money

[nehalem256]

Originally Posted by Juddog

What we need is pretty simple, how the dems and repubs screwed it up beyond belief is hard to understand.

* Eliminate the insurance companies, pay the government directly who pays the hospital directly, let the middle man die off
* Regulate prices so that hospitals aren't charging $500 to bring you a boiled hot dog for dinner and $5000 for an xray. One standard price for one standard procedure, adjusted by inflation
* Put a cap on malpactice suits to lower insurance costs for doctors and hospitals
* Increase the hard cap on the number of doctors that are allowed to exit medical school each year so that we have more doctors internally
* Eliminate advertising for big pharma (spending hundreds of millions on advertising for prescription drugs is ludicrous)
* Data mine surgical procedures to find which ones are the best, not which ones cost the most to give the doctor the most money

You see you have a lot of good ideas there. But they you have to throw in the typical liberal belief that health care is a right that everyone is entitled to equal access to regardless of there life choices.

If middle men are so bad why are liberals so fixated on only one middle man?

[Acanthus]

Originally Posted by nehalem256

You see you have a lot of good ideas there. But they you have to throw in the typical liberal belief that health care is a right that everyone is entitled to equal access to regardless of there life choices.

If middle men are so bad why are liberals so fixated on only one middle man?

Just like everyone deserves police protection and fire protection, everyone deserves to live.

[Acanthus]

Originally Posted by FerrelGeek

Yeah, that's why reps didn't vote for this steaming pile of dung and Obama had to bribe certain congressdrones to get them to vote for it.

It was modeled on Romneys healthcare in Massachusetts...

[nehalem256]

Originally Posted by Acanthus

Just like everyone deserves police protection and fire protection, everyone deserves to live.

If you want to take no responsibility for your life then don't expect me to shed a tear if you meet an early grave.

[michal1980]

Originally Posted by Acanthus

Just like everyone deserves police protection and fire protection, everyone deserves to live.

right to live does not equal right to free/low cost health insurance.