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Old 02-16-2013, 02:51 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pontifex View Post
ok, i agree with like a free month or 2 or something like that depending on how much you donate, but to expect to play the game without ever paying is really asking too much imo, especially if you donate the minimum.
well...they already paid, for a product that might not exist. so you aren't expecting to get something for not paying--so lack of sub in that argument is moot.

but for an MMO, I agree.

Maybe it's just me, but pay 40 bucks to get this thing going, should entitle one to the game +2-3 months sub. Save the shitty glossy paper posters and plastic statues for people that prefer to toss their money into the trash...
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:44 AM   #52
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Ahh...DAoC. Good times. I literally devoted 3+ years of my life to that game. Sad and awesome all at once.

I'm not certain how well an all PvP game would work. It would be nice not to have to rely on PvE to level, but at the same time, it would cut out a lot of the player base in modern MMO'ing. I mean, WoW players are 99.9% carebear. It's only those that live in the Arena that aren't. And WoW's subscription base is still pretty freakin' strong.

ToA didn't ruin DAoC. Odin's Eye did. Strategy and tactics were nullified by gheydar, which diminished the appeal to RvR unless it was with a giant zerg; which is also very ghey.

At first, I hated the requirement of PvE for artifacts, but it added a new element of challenge to the game and set the standards higher and added a lot of playstyle diversity. Plus, a lot of ToA was pretty cool to explore and the dungeons were fairly challenging. If you think ToA destroyed the game, then you probably hated buffbots too. An unfair advantage of people willing to go out of their way to be the best they could be; within the allowable limits of the game, right?

IMHO, if you're not willing to put forth the legitimate effort within a game, then don't cry bloody murder when you're at a disadvantage. Step up or GTFO!

Shadowbane...why did you have to fail so hard.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:33 AM   #53
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Odin's Eye? wut is wut?
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:44 AM   #54
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Odin's Eye? wut is wut?
Just someone butthurt he thinks cheating ruined the game. It was not used much, lots got banned for using it in one sweep and everyone wrongly assumed it was used a lot.
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Old 02-16-2013, 05:56 AM   #55
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Oh, so cheating should be allowed?

And no, it was used in large amounts on Merlin. Actually, I knew plenty of people personally that used it long after it was said to be "banned". Several years afterwards, in fact; including DAoCSkilla and other packet sniffing programs and location "hopping", or ghosting hacks.
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Old 02-16-2013, 09:36 AM   #56
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I don't know.

For me, it seems like the kickstarter is for NRE, not for recurring costs after initial release. The danger/problem is with how many MMOs that start with a subscription model with a cost for the initial product, and then go F2P where the client is offered for free, and micro-transactions are used to subsidize the servers.

I would not be happy to have paid for the initial client release, and then, soon after, get stuck with paying for a "premium" account in a micro-transaction world, while others get the client for free. But that happens with normal MMOs often enough, that it really seems like a usual risk.
like you said, this happens all the time with other mmos. I paid for SWTOR and now it's free. sucks but what am i or anyone else going to do about it? nothing. its the price you pay for early adoption.

beisdes, usually you pay like what, $10-15 on kickstarter and you get the full game. most likely the full game is going to cost $50-60 anyway so you already get a huge discount on it. asking for more is just being greedy imo.
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Old 02-16-2013, 10:05 AM   #57
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Oh, so cheating should be allowed?

And no, it was used in large amounts on Merlin. Actually, I knew plenty of people personally that used it long after it was said to be "banned". Several years afterwards, in fact; including DAoCSkilla and other packet sniffing programs and location "hopping", or ghosting hacks.
Never said it should be allowed, just saying it was not a big deal in daoc, AT ALL.
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Old 02-16-2013, 11:52 AM   #58
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If you think ToA destroyed the game, then you probably hated buffbots too. An unfair advantage of people willing to go out of their way to be the best they could be; within the allowable limits of the game, right?

IMHO, if you're not willing to put forth the legitimate effort within a game, then don't cry bloody murder when you're at a disadvantage. Step up or GTFO!
I hated buff bots in Shadowbane because my computer was too crappy to run more than 1 instance of SB without slowing to a crawl, often causing one or both the .exe's to freeze/crash. It was an advantage I couldn't use and it annoyed the living fuck out of me.
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Old 02-17-2013, 07:58 AM   #59
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For those wondering he wants to raise 2million with kickstarter next month. He is going to get the other 3million from investors + himself.

To compare, DAOC took 2.5million to develop.

The big thing to me is if they make own engine, or use existing ones. That will determine how long it takes to get a game out. If they license some other engine, it will be a 12-24months. If they make own it could be 3+ years. I don't see them licensing one out, no mmo engine out that can have daoc quick combat style he aims for.
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Old 02-17-2013, 08:15 AM   #60
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please enlighten me.
I haven't seen a "major MMO" release in the last year or so at least that I can name that successfully launched with a subscription. On the other hand, I can easily use up all my fingers on F2P launches. Granted the bar for "successful" reduces the number of fingers needed, but that's how the business in general works.

You want to look at how "successful" Premium AAA subscripton MMO's launches are these days, look no further than SWTOR and The Secret World.
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Old 02-17-2013, 09:14 AM   #61
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Agreed, I still can't figure out why they all shoot for $15 per month? How about $10 or $7 or $60 for 12 months. Personally I like cover charges keeps all the riff raff out.
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Old 02-17-2013, 11:56 AM   #62
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asking for more is just being greedy imo.
Maybe, but you're not factoring in the very high likelihood that nothing will get built, you'll have nothing to play, and your $20 will disappear into thin air with no return.
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Old 02-17-2013, 01:29 PM   #63
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DAoC was a great game, I get nostalgic just thinking about it. I really liked the idea of taking relics and keeps. I still remember the first time the call to arms went out because an army was spotted headed to the relic keep from Hadrians Wall. One by one, keeps started falling as I was on my horse hoping to get to the frontiers in time to contribute to our realms defense. Just moments prior, I was doing PvE with a group lvling up at Lyonesse and just like that the community at large dropped what we were doing to rush back to twart an invasion.

I also played on a RP server which made it a much more interesting social atmosphere when something went down.
Same here, that game sucked the real life out of me and turned me into a DAoC junkie. In a strange way it was hilarious riding that damn horse for what seemed like an eternity to get from place to place. But now in games travel is so instant it almost takes some of the fun out as you don't have to do any planning and it turns what looks like a massive map into nothing.
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Old 02-17-2013, 03:28 PM   #64
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Same here, that game sucked the real life out of me and turned me into a DAoC junkie. In a strange way it was hilarious riding that damn horse for what seemed like an eternity to get from place to place. But now in games travel is so instant it almost takes some of the fun out as you don't have to do any planning and it turns what looks like a massive map into nothing.
Heh, I remember there used to be a crack in the geometry in a specific place in Spindelhalla that we'd use when we needed a fast trip back to bind.
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:23 PM   #65
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Heh, I remember there used to be a crack in the geometry in a specific place in Spindelhalla that we'd use when we needed a fast trip back to bind.
Same thing in Avalon City. It was also useful if you ended up getting a train of MOBs on you, and your group folded. You could avoid a death if you were close to the hole.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:13 AM   #66
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Kickstarter is up for this. Lots of choices for diffrent types of people, $5-$10k worth of tiers. I put in $250 since i love the idea so much.

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/...elot-unchained

edit: Up to $185k in only 15min. whoah.
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Old 04-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #67
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Maybe, but you're not factoring in the very high likelihood that nothing will get built, you'll have nothing to play, and your $20 will disappear into thin air with no return.
ok so they offer more and the game never gets built anyway? you're still out $20. besides, this is the deal with kickstarter. its a known fact that may happen and you're taking the risk to fund something that you would enjoy.

it's a business, they aren't doing this to make people happy. they need to have room to make money.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:24 PM   #68
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FYI the developer is putting $2million of his own money into this game. He is also taking a chance.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:30 PM   #69
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For 30 bucks tempting just for the beta access.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:43 PM   #70
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Still subscription based == a big fuck no.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #71
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Still subscription based == a big fuck no.
I am kind of torn on this. While F2P is kind of nice. The problem for me is F2P has turned a 15\month sub into a 30-50\sub lol.
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Old 04-02-2013, 01:18 PM   #72
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I am kind of torn on this. While F2P is kind of nice. The problem for me is F2P has turned a 15\month sub into a 30-50\sub lol.
The only F2P game I've ever put cash into was Planetside 2, and I didn't really regret it.

Every other F2P game I've played I've lived fairly happily within the restrictions imposed by the F2P tiers with only an occasional longing for something premium which eventually passed.

On the other hand, I can tell you having put a 6 month subscription into a premium AAA game like SWTOR, getting bored after 3 months, then in about month 5 having them come out and smash you in the nuts with a sledgehammer telling you that it's going F2P shortly... never again.

Or Champions Online which decided to lock out all of my previously made characters when they transitioned to a F2P-premium model, and now wants the equivalent of $50 each (or an active subscription) to play with them again.

Or Everquest 2 which transitioned to a F2P premium model and decided that I couldn't play characters/content that I had bought and paid for the expansions to originally unlock when they implemented the new model. (This was subsequently retroactively rectified, but not until a couple months AFTER the initial transition by which time I had lost interest in even trying.)
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:10 PM   #73
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Still subscription based == a big fuck no.
Yah that $5-15 a month packages are going to kill you...but you read about the game to know this already.

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Old 04-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #74
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The only F2P game I've ever put cash into was Planetside 2, and I didn't really regret it.

Every other F2P game I've played I've lived fairly happily within the restrictions imposed by the F2P tiers with only an occasional longing for something premium which eventually passed.

On the other hand, I can tell you having put a 6 month subscription into a premium AAA game like SWTOR, getting bored after 3 months, then in about month 5 having them come out and smash you in the nuts with a sledgehammer telling you that it's going F2P shortly... never again.

Or Champions Online which decided to lock out all of my previously made characters when they transitioned to a F2P-premium model, and now wants the equivalent of $50 each (or an active subscription) to play with them again.

Or Everquest 2 which transitioned to a F2P premium model and decided that I couldn't play characters/content that I had bought and paid for the expansions to originally unlock when they implemented the new model. (This was subsequently retroactively rectified, but not until a couple months AFTER the initial transition by which time I had lost interest in even trying.)
You have far more will power than me. I allocate about 50 bucks a month for game entertainment. These F2P games like WoT and Warthunder get that allocation. Far more than a 15\month sub hehe.
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Old 04-02-2013, 02:15 PM   #75
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ok so they offer more and the game never gets built anyway? you're still out $20. besides, this is the deal with kickstarter. its a known fact that may happen and you're taking the risk to fund something that you would enjoy.

it's a business, they aren't doing this to make people happy. they need to have room to make money.
Interesting you bring up making money. If Jacobs funded this idea the traditional way, which he has all the contacts and seed money of his own to accomplish, then he'd have to get it by people who are pretty good at judging whether it is a viable business and not just a neat game idea. By going to crowdsourcing he gets to avoid all that due dilligence and get his funds from people who for the most part will only see the neat game.

I hope it gets built, and doesn't turn out like Warhammer, and generates enough income to stick around for awhile. I'll buy it at release.
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