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Old 02-11-2013, 03:06 PM   #826
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I doubt a steam box is going to change development in any significant way unless it becomes as profitable as consoles.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #827
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I doubt a steam box is going to change development in any significant way unless it becomes as profitable as consoles.
If the PC market as-is keeps shrinking, then Valve's only hope to continue to exist as a publisher is to make the steam box successful. I doubt Valve is going to half ass it's release, support, and feature set. There is a reason steam is the biggest digital game distributor in the world.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:11 PM   #828
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God I hope Valve comes out with a steam-pc. I won't care if it's Linux and won't have all the AAA titles right from the get go, I'm seriously kinda over upgrading my PC every 12-18 months. If valve makes their own hardware that A) runs PC games B) uses steam workshop for mods C) allows user to choose between kb&m or controller and D) has higher frame rates and/or better graphics than consoles, I will officially quit visiting this forum. LOL.
The less you visit PC gaming forums, the less you'll be pressured to keep up with upgrades. If GTX570 had 2GB of VRAM, with a minor OC it would still give very good performance in most games with some settings turned down.

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If the PC market as-is keeps shrinking, then Valve's only hope to continue to exist as a publisher is to make the steam box successful. I doubt Valve is going to half ass it's release, support, and feature set. There is a reason steam is the biggest digital game distributor in the world.
The desktop PC market isn't doing well, but discrete gaming GPU sales are growing, not shrinking. People tend to correlate "Desktop PC growth" with "Gaming PC growth", but they are different. Valve already has 50 million users and growing.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:49 PM   #829
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The less you visit PC gaming forums, the less you'll be pressured to keep up with upgrades. If GTX570 had 2GB of VRAM, with a minor OC it would still give very good performance in most games with some settings turned down.



The desktop PC market isn't doing well, but discrete gaming GPU sales are growing, not shrinking. People tend to correlate "Desktop PC growth" with "Gaming PC growth", but they are different. Valve already has 50 million users and growing.
I think PC gaming is alright for the time being, but the path for many in the past was starting with a desktop PC from someone like dell or HP - and when they developed an interest in gaming, they bought a discrete card.

I've turned a lot of friends onto PC gaming this way -- sadly most users now don't buy a desktop PC as their first computing device. So eventually that ripple effect which would before generate PC gaming and discrete card sales, isn't as significant now. In many ways it's worse now, since some users start with a mac (horrible for games obviously) or an ultrabook (just as horrible for games with HD4000). That's how it is in the US anyway, not sure if the european or Chinese market is different.

edit: I just fully read your link about growing discrete graphics shipments, I have to say that i'm rather surprised that discrete is actually growing but nonetheless -- That is great news IMO. PC gaming has always been my thing, and hopefully that remains the case for years to come.

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Old 02-11-2013, 05:09 PM   #830
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If GTX570 had 2GB of VRAM, with a minor OC it would still give very good performance in most games with some settings turned down.
I'm on a 22" 1680/1050 with a GTX570 at 800MHz and it rocks any game out there. It was around $300 in 2011. I was expecting to buy by now at the same price a card that would be 80% faster. Well, it seems that card will arrive... at $900. On the other hand the most widespread GPU on steam survey is by far Intel HD3000. That says a lot.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:12 PM   #831
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I'm on a 22" 1680/1050 with a GTX570 at 800MHz and it rocks any game out there. It was around $300 in 2011. I was expecting to buy by now at the same price a card that would be 80% faster. Well, it seems that card will arrive... at $900. On the other hand the most widespread GPU on steam survey is by far Intel HD3000. That says a lot.
Know what it says to me? Intel only has one gpu worth using ATM! Or it could simply be steam reading it off z68 boards.

Represented clearly by their 13.32% market share according to steam, despite the most glorified gaming cpu in recent memory having it built in

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Old 02-11-2013, 05:13 PM   #832
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The desktop PC market isn't doing well, but discrete gaming GPU sales are growing, not shrinking. People tend to correlate "Desktop PC growth" with "Gaming PC growth", but they are different. Valve already has 50 million users and growing.
I have argued the same thing myself but the writing is on the wall and there are significant hints almost daily that discrete add-in cards are going to be a difficult sell in a four-five years. Everything consumer, whether we like it or not, want to admit to it or not, is going integrated. It happened (for 90-95% of all consumer situations) with sound cards. I fully know and realize that integrated sound isn't comparable to integrated video because there is just sooooo much more that goes on with and around video output / quality / consistency and scalability, but eventually discrete graphics will be only for the highest end gamers with ultra high resolution multiple monitor setups. It is inevitable.

To this end, Valve is not sitting idle and waiting for the market to decide it's fate 4-5 years from now. Gabe and the rest of Valve knows that they need their own ecosystem, their own little "walled garden" built big enough and with enough features to not seem closed like iTunes or Windows.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #833
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I have argued the same thing myself but the writing is on the wall
Only if you don't understand that these things don't just happen by themselves. There has to be a suitable replacement, and in regards to PC gaming, that's one of the few things that there won't be a suitable replacement for for the forseeable future.

The only individuals buying these cards are gamers (overwhelming majority anyway), and there's no way to get the same experience in a smaller form factor.

The people leaving the desktop (or pc) are the ones whose needs are filled just fine by other devices. These people, by definition, aren't high end PC gamers.


You're making the common mistake of generalizing without understanding that your generalization isn't valid.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:01 PM   #834
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Real or fake? Link says launch date is Feb. 18th.


http://translate.google.com/translat...2F%3Fp%3D26335

If real that is 70% more shader power, 45% more ROP power, 20% more setup (geometry), and 50% more memory bandwidth.

EDIT: Probably a fake. "Titan" is a different color green.

Last edited by tviceman; 02-11-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:06 PM   #835
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Awwwwww........ so sweet!
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:08 PM   #836
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You missed all the other points I made, like NV's earning call soon. You think investors are going to be happy to hear that NV lost PS4's contract? Investors sometimes just react without understanding it might have been better for NV to not even do the contract. Here NV presents the Titan and reassures them that they are still a class leader in graphics. Also, it's not about having AMD GPU in PS4 for gamers. It's about NV trumpeting up excitement about PC gaming. You must have not watched the live video unveiling of GTX690 last year. NV made it a big event to hype up PC gaming. You think NV doesn't care at all about attracting console gamers to the PC? Titan is not going to get people to not buy a PS4 and instead get a $900 Titan. It's about showing off the capabilities of what PC gaming offers today. If someone has $500 and have a decent desktop they might decide that it's better to just buy a GTX670 and forget the PS4, especially if PS4 locks used games, has always on DRM/internet connection, etc. Whatever NV needs to do to promote the PC gaming platform, they will do it because they want those console gamers to become more aware of PC gaming.



You must drive a Corvette ZR1 or faster then? The Viper would destroy a GT500 in nearly every performance metric that actually counts.
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/laguna_seca.html

There isn't even a point in comparing a live rear-axle GT500 with its massive curb weight against the Viper.



Yup. It's business as usual, except it could have significant long-term consequences. Same thing happened in the audiophile market if you head over to Head-fi.org. Companies like Sennheiser said you know what we'll replace HD650s with HD800 and double the price. No problem said audiophiles. Next thing you know the average price of an awesome headphone went up 2-3x on the high-end as other companies saw that audiophiles were willing to pay 2-3x the historical pirce. What Nvidia is doing is testing how far they can raise prices. They are taking full advantage this opportunity because AMD won't really have a card to respond to the Titan. They conditioned the consumers that $1K is OK with GTX690 and they are testing this again 2nd time in a row. NV is going to milk for as much as possible to test higher and higher price levels to see just how inelastic NV's own high-end GPU consumers are in hopes of establishing new normal due to the dying sales of sub-$100 GPUs. Where do you get growth if most people are moving to tablets/laptops/smartphones? You try as hard as possible to raise prices in your other remaining product segments and see if the market will bear it. And just like this happened in the audiophile headphone market, we could just as well wake up to a mid-range 300mm2 chip for $500 and high-end 500-550mm2 Maxwell chip at $800-900 next gen.



Pretty much. Same thing with Intel. People keep claiming Intel isn't raising prices on us. They are in a very sneaky way. Over the last 3-4 years the die sizes keep getting smaller but prices stay the same which means Intel isn't passing on that free performance to us. They are benefiting fully from the die shrinks by propping up their gross margins and all we get are reductions in power consumption with minimal performance gains; and still same # of cores from i7 920 days. By now Haswell should be a 6-core $325 part but it's not. If NV had issues with GK110 last year or not doesn't really matter in the grand scheme anymore. They got away selling 294mm2 die for $500 and it outsold the 580, while the real flagship that was supposed to replace the 580 is now rumoured to drop at $800-900.
Wow, awesome post!
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:12 PM   #837
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Any word on if there will be product availability on launch date?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:13 PM   #838
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Originally Posted by Ferzerp View Post
Only if you don't understand that these things don't just happen by themselves. There has to be a suitable replacement, and in regards to PC gaming, that's one of the few things that there won't be a suitable replacement for for the forseeable future.

The only individuals buying these cards are gamers (overwhelming majority anyway), and there's no way to get the same experience in a smaller form factor.

The people leaving the desktop (or pc) are the ones whose needs are filled just fine by other devices. These people, by definition, aren't high end PC gamers.


You're making the common mistake of generalizing without understanding that your generalization isn't valid.
The PC gaming crowd is older than the console / mobile crowd. Young people growing up don't have the same exposure to desktop PC gaming as 30-40 year olds did growing up. Next gen consoles are right around the corner. Mobile gaming is overtaking everything in terms of sales. My "generalization" IS valid. There are more and more indicators everyday that "good enough" eventually replaces "super awesome." It happened with sound cards to integrated sound, it happened with cameras to camera phones, it happened with network cards to integrated controllers on the motherboard, it happened with music tapes to CD's, it will happen eventually to video cards. Discrete cards will continue to exist, but custom desktop machines will slowly, slowly become more and more of a niche and video cards will follow.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #839
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I don't know tviceman, most of the products you mentioned were simple task products that had a easily obtained "performance" criteria.

Graphics should obviously continue to improve, and resolutions should continue to increase. Both of which are factors that none of the products you listed had driving them. Audio only needs to be so good before most people can't tell or simply don't care about the difference, camera phones filled a role normal cameras couldn't, but even those are increased each year in quality and MP. Network cards were never really an ultra performance issue, fitting them on a mobo just makes sense the need for faster and faster networking doesn't exist in the consumer market.

I wouldn't rule out future graphics cards, at least not yet!
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #840
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Things don't get replaced with smaller items until the problem is effectively "solved" in the largest form factor.

Graphics are still very limited.

Audio? Sure
Web browsing? Sure.
Email? Sure
Word processing? Sure.

Graphics? Hell no.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:04 PM   #841
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Will this card come F2P bonus'es?

Maybe some TF2 hats?
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:12 PM   #842
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Will this card come F2P bonus'es?

Maybe some TF2 hats?
Yes
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:59 PM   #843
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Will this card come F2P bonus'es?

Maybe some TF2 hats?
Nah, I'm sure they will sell every single one they make.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:35 PM   #844
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I'm on a 22" 1680/1050 with a GTX570 at 800MHz and it rocks any game out there. It was around $300 in 2011. I was expecting to buy by now at the same price a card that would be 80% faster. Well, it seems that card will arrive... at $900. On the other hand the most widespread GPU on steam survey is by far Intel HD3000. That says a lot.
That's a good card. I wouldn't upgrade your GPU before you upgrade the monitor.

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Any word on if there will be product availability on launch date?
Should be soon. I think it will happen before February 20th which coincides nicely with Crysis 3's launch and rains on PS4's possible announcement. Not sure how hard it'll be to get 4 for SLI at launch though. If you are mentally prepared for $899 x 4 and they launch at a lower price, you'll be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:13 PM   #845
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Originally Posted by tviceman View Post
Real or fake? Link says launch date is Feb. 18th.


http://translate.google.com/translat...2F%3Fp%3D26335

If real that is 70% more shader power, 45% more ROP power, 20% more setup (geometry), and 50% more memory bandwidth.

EDIT: Probably a fake. "Titan" is a different color green.
The CL benchmark site had GPU clock at 875
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:51 AM   #846
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A single 7950 oced is 60-80% faster than an oced 570 in modern titles. And you can have it around the $300 mark. Titan is not required to beat 2 570s. A single 7970 ghz oc handily provides a better experience for less cost.
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Old 02-12-2013, 01:57 AM   #847
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Will Titan play Crysis 4?

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Old 02-12-2013, 05:24 AM   #848
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I'm a bit surprised it took you so long to come up with THAT screenshot.
Yeah we all know Crysis has nice looking vegies if you very careful when modding and taking screenie.
I bet my wife's behind when she's 60 will look nice from certain angles.

It's still a 6 years old game with the look and feel of 6 years old game.
And if Crysis indeed looked like that, we would have remembered it, instead of you passing shocking pics.
Nice try though.
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Old 02-12-2013, 07:58 AM   #849
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http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/b14...GTX_Titan.html

Base Clock: 915 MHz

Boost Clock: 1019.5 MHz

Thanks goes to Demo!
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Old 02-12-2013, 08:04 AM   #850
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TMUs: 224
ROPs: 48
SMX: 14
Pixel Rate: 51.2 GPixel/s
Texture Rate: 205.0 GTexel/s
Floating-point performance: 4,919.04 GFLOPS

So who wants to overclock that up to 1300MHz core and 7000Mhz memory?
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