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View Poll Results: Buy a new tablet now or wait for haswell?
Now 7 36.84%
Wait 12 63.16%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-07-2013, 04:31 PM   #26
needspractice
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@podspi

Just barely, you are scaring me. I think you are right though because reviews are starting to pop up on youtube and it does look like there is some lag with the pen. Man I don’t know if I am going to get the Latitude now because I do not want to pay 700 bucks for something that is going to lag on onenote. I definitely don’t care if it’s a primary machine but come on man don’t you think it should be able to blaze through office 2010?

What do you think I should do? Risk it and use it for office and hate the lag or just wait for second generation windows 8 full tablets?

Best,
Needspractice
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:42 PM   #27
podspi
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I don't mean to scare you -- but unfortunately in my mind there is no 'perfect device' out there yet.

I was a very early adopter of the tablet pc and I do an absolute ton of inking. My previous tablet PC was the (imho) awesome Gateway 140X (which I did not have the heart to get rid of actually). With a high-capacity battery AND an optional battery slice (instead of an optical drive) it got about 12 hours of battery life. The downside of course was that it no longer fit into the sleeve cover, was very heavy, and a bit unwieldy at 14". But performance was good and it got the job done.

Unfortunately, it was not terribly convenient to tote around, and new batteries are no longer available (even on eBay, they are all just selling unopened 5 year old batteries, but that is another rant).


This new tablet PC has a few advantages, and disadvantages. The battery life is excellent, and the ability to switch between active pen and finger input is pretty neat. The fact that the keyboard is detachable, and that it doesn't have an annoying fan is also a plus. The tradeoff you get for all of that is that performance is not great. Is it bearable? As someone who does a lot of inking, I would say yes. But now that people actually care about these devices I expect things will get much better very quickly, so don't pick one up expecting to keep it for the next five years, because you will not have a good time. I purchased the ATIV fully expecting to probably flip it in 12 months max, and I do not regret the purchase at all.

TL;DR: If you are looking for a device for the long haul, wait until Bay Trail and/or Haswell. AMD supposedly also has some great SoCs for this market as well, though I personally wouldn't trade connected standby support for better graphics, but everything in life is a trade-off
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:34 AM   #28
needspractice
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@Everyone

LOL! I like how the polls are exactly 50/50. That helps!

@podspi

Amazing! I’m glad I found someone that uses inking 24/7! Hey! A few questions for you, I am taking 5 classes all with long lectures. I only have 15 minute breaks in between them so absolutely no time to charge the battery. I write small and take a lot of notes. Some processors also provide notes already in .docx form and you just fill in between the lines. My question is based on your experience do you think this would be a great digital replacement? Or will I be frustrated because taking notes on the Tablets are kind of slow and not up to par with real time note taking yet?

Another question, a great person on here recommended the Lenovo ThinkPad 2. I think this one might be the absolute ticket! Looks very slick and well-built and the pen is actually built in so you don’t have to carry it separately plus they have an awesome fit form case that goes with it. I believe this is the best like I-pad experience you are going to get but in PC form. Here’s the deal, based on reviews it looks like the IBM pen is awesome and writes real well. As the Latitude 10 is choppy, call me crazy I know both of them use the Wacom Digitizer technology but I think in the ThinkPad they must have designed it much better and really focused on it because it is even built in. Also I believe it has 1200 pressure sensitivity verses to Dell I don’t think they even state.

So what do you think about all that. I think the form factor and sleekness of the Lenovo with the incredible case will be perfect for taking notes at school and using office. It even claims 10 Hours battery life. The latitude 10 I really enjoy the separate battery part and extra battery for even longer life but I think the extra battery will get in the way when trying to lay it down and take notes. Plus I think they focused more on that optional battery then design and pen.

Even the Lenovo has a pen holder and sleek case then the Surface Pro. Again I’m not looking for the best hardware I’m totally looking for the best mobility tablet.

What happens when all these batteries die on these non-removable tablets? Do you have to send them out to the manufactory or can you order a battery and put it in yourself if it is out of warranty. Like you said though I will probably only have this machine for like a couple of years so it probably doesn’t matter. What’s the life span of these batteries anyway?

Best,
Needspractice
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:23 AM   #29
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How long are your classes? Assuming they are 100 minutes, that is going to stretch the battery life of almost anything, in which case a removable battery (that you can throw in your backpack) is going to be key. In your position I would probably go for the Dell. There is no way to guarantee a single battery will last that long, and even if it does once it degrades (which it will relatively quickly since you are doing deep discharges every day) battery life will be lower.

I honestly think that the inking performance in Office 2013 is good enough to use on a daily basis, and there are some definite things you can do to boost performance. Configuration is very important, and it is more likely lags are being caused by configuration than the wacom digitizer itself.

1) Keeping a clean installation image is very important especially with an Atom-based PC.

2) Disabling background indexing can help (though I don't because I like to be able to search through notes in real-time)

3) Disabling touch (not pen) input can help a ton. (Most of the lag I experience is the tablet trying to integrate my finger touch movements and the pen input. Onenote does a very good job of differentiating the two and making sure your strokes appear where they are supposed to, but apparently the processing power necessary to make these adjustments is pretty high and bursty, leading to lag).


If you can, head to a nearby Microsoft Store or similar (maybe Staples?) and play with a TabletPC. At this point I still consider them niche products but I believe we are on the verge of them being mainstream devices that will be commonly found in classrooms.

As an aside, (since many people do not know of this feature), if you record audio while you are inking, you can replay the audio at any given stroke point, which is incredibly awesome. That also takes up resources though. I still do it and it is easily workable. #3 is still the biggest lag generator for me.

Edit: More on the battery: Lithium-Ion batteries tend to like shallow-discharges best. I used to be in a similar position to you back in the day and my batteries did not last, because I was charging them up and then completely discharging them. This is why removable batteries for this type of application are a good thing, especially if you know you are going to be bumping up against the max runtime limit.

Edit2: More info on the above here: http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/a...ased_batteries

Last edited by podspi; 02-08-2013 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 02-09-2013, 04:58 PM   #30
needspractice
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@Everyone

Do I Buy The Dell Latitude 10 or the Lenovo ThinkPad 2! Any Last Words?

Well everyone I think I have narrowed it down to these two. I went to Best Buy today and they had the Microsoft Surface Pro and I was not impressed. Sure it’s great with a nice keyboard but for the sacrifice in battery life I could care less. They had an ASUS version of the ATOM processor there and it was smoking fast enough for me. Also the Office experience was wonderful.

Here’s the deal. The last thing I am torn about is this. The Dell Latitude 10 has the awesome removable battery for extremely long battery life. This would help because I want truly all day battery life. The downfall is that I will be using this tablet primarily for taking notes so I am wondering with the extra battery sticking out and lifting the tablet will this create major issues.


The Lenovo ThinkPad 2 is incredible because it has built in stylist and amazing case. The only downfall is that no removable battery. My fear here is how long will this device last and what happens if I need a new battery. I know with not an extended battery and awesome case that my note taking experience will be amazing.

Anyone wondering about note taking and office working on the atom processor I would tell them it works great. Best Buy had office installed, pens ready, and everything worked great.

Well anyone that has some last minute advice I will be pulling the trigger on one of these and any advice would be great because I do not want to make the wrong decision.

Best,
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:00 PM   #31
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@Everyone

I Need A Tablet Stylist Pro's Advice! Help!

I am in college and I want to take notes via a tablet now. I am looking for the best Tablet to do this with, the best software options, and the best Digitizer Pen.

I have done a lot of research and found out that Wacom Digitizer Pen or Samsung S-Pen is probably the best at the moment, high levels of pressure and the ability not to detect your palm.


My main question is that anyone with a Tablet that has Microsoft Office One-note actually tries to take heavy detailed small handwriting notes in long lectures, like pages worth of notes. Is this possible or is regular pen and paper still dominate. You-tube is very limited with not too many people demonstrating note taking on tablets which makes me a little nervous.

Should I give up on this quest on the perfect tablet with perfect note taking abilities because the technology is not out there yet or I just have not yet found it?

I am looking for preferably a Windows 8 full not RT tablet with one-note with great note taking abilities with battery life that lasts all day because I am taking 5 classes. But I am open to anything else if someone has had absolutely great experience with something and is willing to share like with the I-Pad or Android.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

Best,
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:45 AM   #32
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@Everyone

Thank you all for your help! I bought the Dell Latitude 10! Main reason why is because of the support for the "Wacom Digitizer Feel" the absolutely latest Digitizer that is out. You can only order it from Wacom and the Latitude supports it. And the fact the Latitude has an extended battery and power output on its USB.

For everyone that is having trouble with the stylist try the Wacom "Feel"

Best,
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:45 PM   #33
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Pen and paper is cheaper for notes
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:05 PM   #34
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needspractice - Please give us a review after a month of using it. I'd be really interested in your thoughts, especially in using in with OneNote.

I've mildly tried to use a tablet to take notes, 5 years ago, with the Thinkpad x61t. It didn't go that well. Of course it's probably at least 2x as thick and 3x as heavy!

One day, it'd be great to have really thin tablets so I could own a few and use them like paper. Swap and change tablets for different purposes or whatever tablet is around/closest. Then I could sort and move 'pages' between tablets to organize and merge.

Last edited by aceO07; 02-11-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:04 PM   #35
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@soulcouger73

But not as productive, I take very detailed notes but the Teacher goes to fast for me to structure them on paper for studying later. 90 percent of the time I am restructuring my notes on the computer later for better studying structure. This way I can ink in Word or OneNote and space and structure on the fly so when I want to study I can just use the PC or print them out and save tons of time.

@aceO07

You got it man. I will be using the Latitude extensively with the Latitude 10. I also order the Wacom Feel Digitizer so I will let you know for sure. I will be taking notes all day in 5 classes back to back so I should have a really good idea.

I can already tell you that I plan to do it this way but I will give you a review later as well. A lot of my teacher has pre outlined notes. I plan to open them up in word and use the auto convert writing to text on the fly while I take notes under the statement we are currently talking about and spacing it like I want it for studying later that night. For teaches that do not have pre-notes I will be using OneNote or a program that has capabilities to turn my writing to text on the fly more and likely; but all this is speculation but I will let you know for sure. Possibly even do a review.

Best,
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