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Old 01-31-2013, 02:33 AM   #176
lopri
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I see. So is there any upcoming phone that has been announced to use A15 as its SOC?

Exynos 5 (dual) in Nexus 10 is A15, right?

Sorry for dragging the thread to the side. I just wanted to fully understand where BB10 stands, hardware-wise. So some BB10s are using dual A9, and some are using Krait (dual, I suppose)?

Also, Snapdragon S4 Pro = Krait, correct?

Last edited by lopri; 01-31-2013 at 02:37 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:38 AM   #177
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There is a special version of the Lumia 920 which has Adreno 320, but that is called the S4 Pro, not Plus. ie. Not all S4 Pros are quad-core.
Yeah, there was a slightly different version going to the Chinese market IIRC, but vaguely recall something about it not actually being able to exploit the beefier hw (article at MNB IIRC).

Last edited by jalyst; 02-03-2013 at 11:36 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:44 AM   #178
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Exynos 5 (dual) in Nexus 10 is A15, right?

Sorry for dragging the thread to the side. I just wanted to fully understand where BB10 stands, hardware-wise. So some BB10s are using dual A9, and some are using Krait (dual, I suppose)?

Also, Snapdragon S4 Pro = Krait, correct?
Yes, yes, and yes.

No official phones have been announced with A15, but both of the major non-Qualcomm SoCs for this year have been announced and explained, and both are 4 A15s + powersaver (1 lower-power A15 for Tegra4, 4 A7s for Exynos "the Ocho").

So 2010 was single-core A8, 2011 was dual-core A9, 2012 was quad A9/dual hybrid, and 2013 will be quad A15. (As you see, this is another big jump year like 2011.) At least for Android -- though I expect Apple to go quad Swift to keep up advertising-wise.
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:00 AM   #179
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Wonder why BB didn't choose to be more slightly more aggressive*, it is after-all widely hailed as their "last chance".
Their engineers would've been acutely aware of the best performing SoC's out there and coming...
Perhaps they'll be more aggressive with their 2nd-gen BBX phones, if there is a 2nd-gen, really looking forward to Anand's take on all this.

*& ditch the whole silly 2 versions notion
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:14 AM   #180
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The S4 Plus isn't exactly a slouch... and it has excellent battery life to go with it. Much better than anything else BB has had

That being said, BB is still going down hill fast in my opinion. They need to go full blown Android
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:06 AM   #181
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I find it rather odd how almost everyone's solution seems to be "they need to go Android"....
No thanks, I don't want no duopoly, or even a "triopoloy", we need 4, 5, 6 or even 7 players, there's shit-loads of room in this still strongly growing worldwide market.*
Diversity is a profound thing when the market can easily sustain it, variety is the whole reason we as a species even exist...
And no, the hacking community within Android is not sufficient on it's own, it in itself has lots of positive ramifications, but it's not enough for the bigger picture.

*Now & "well" into the future, esp. most of the emerging world

Last edited by jalyst; 01-31-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:50 AM   #182
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I find it rather odd how almost everyone's solution seems to be "they need to go Android"....
No thanks, I don't want no duopoly, or even a "triopoloy", we need 4, 5, 6 or even 7 players, there's shit-loads of room in this still strongly growing worldwide market.*
Diversity is a profound thing when the market can easily sustain it, variety is the whole reason we as a species even exist...
And no, the hacking community within Android is not sufficient on it's own, it in itself has lots of positive ramifications, but it's not enough for the bigger picture.

*Now & "well" into the future, esp. most of the emerging world
I agree with the spirit. (no sarcasm)

Plus no DRMs. Or at least make some sort of standard medium/market so that your buys - apps, music/movies, games, books, et al - are portable.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:11 AM   #183
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I agree with the spirit. (no sarcasm)

Plus no DRMs. Or at least make some sort of standard medium/market so that your buys - apps, music/movies, games, books, et al - are portable.
If the apps and games were portable from system to system, then wasn't the point in having separate systems? Windows programs don't run on Linux (natively) and they don't run on OS X. Linux programs don't run on OS X or Windows, and OS X programs don't run on Linux or Windows. And that is using Linux as a catch-all. So Apps and Games, I see them as something different from the rest. They aren't content in the same way. The DATA that those apps generate, that should be able to be moved around, but the app itself... eh.

Music: Already there. All the major players are DRM free, I can put my entire iTunes library onto any other device.

Movies: 100% agree with you.

Books: 100% agree with you.

Books and Movies need to catch up with music (though music has a 5 year headstart) in dropping the DRM and adding interoperability. It's great that Amazon has the Kindle software available for every conceivable device, but completely worthless to me if I bought my books from Barnes & Noble, Google, BB, or iBooks (just to name a few). Same goes for movies. And Ultraviolet and its crummy streaming crumminess is NOT the answer to that question.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:43 AM   #184
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I'm, somehow, fundamentally disappointed with this release. In my professional environment, the 'handset to be given' is a Blackberry, and I was hoping that this release would generate some significant competition for the other major market leaders by offering 'something different'. Perhaps it still retains elements that make it the handset of choice for corporate environments but, I'm not seeing them at the moment.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:50 AM   #185
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@TheStu: I'll take that. Let the developers sort out apps/games. Those can be portable per account even today if devs are willing (see: WinRT/Win32), but that's another story with its own caveats. Let's start with multimedia contents.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:52 AM   #186
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I'm, somehow, fundamentally disappointed with this release. In my professional environment, the 'handset to be given' is a Blackberry, and I was hoping that this release would generate some significant competition for the other major market leaders by offering 'something different'. Perhaps it still retains elements that make it the handset of choice for corporate environments but, I'm not seeing them at the moment.
So what does ios/android/wp have OOTB for the corporate env. that BBX definitely doesn't have?
(And just as importantly, what does it have that they don't?)
Unfortunately statements like that don't mean much without some sort of qualification...
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:59 AM   #187
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Hmm.. I think a radical change in culture is required.

And I think BB10 will be a success. The issue is if it can successfully eat into Android and iOS sales. I think it may to some extent, but Blackberry won't get 50% market share as it did in the pre-Android/Samsung era.

Samsung will most likely up its game even further, and release better Galaxy phones. Apple has to up its game totally as it has lost its sexy image to Samsung. in that sense, if BB10 gets 20% market share, this is good IMO. And of course, Samsung is not the only capable Android maker, so to expect BB10 to be a market leader is unrealistic.

It will save the company though, so in that sense it's a masterstroke.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:00 AM   #188
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If the apps and games were portable from system to system, then wasn't the point in having separate systems? Windows programs don't run on Linux (natively) and they don't run on OS X. Linux programs don't run on OS X or Windows, and OS X programs don't run on Linux or Windows. And that is using Linux as a catch-all. So Apps and Games, I see them as something different from the rest. They aren't content in the same way. The DATA that those apps generate, that should be able to be moved around, but the app itself... eh.
I don't think we we ever need to seek that Nirvana, esp. for certain classes of apps/games, for the rest HTML5 will eventually be mature enough to cover them.
It is a tantalising (yet very remote) possibility in the Qt biosphere, with talks already afoot between BB, MeR derivatives (Sailfish, Plasma etc) & Ubuntu, camps.
Although I doubt BlackBerry especially will ever take it very seriously going by its track-record, still, it's very early days, & the initial goals are small/practical.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:21 AM   #189
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Hmm.. I think a radical change in culture is required.

And I think BB10 will be a success. The issue is if it can successfully eat into Android and iOS sales. I think it may to some extent, but Blackberry won't get 50% market share as it did in the pre-Android/Samsung era.

Samsung will most likely up its game even further, and release better Galaxy phones. Apple has to up its game totally as it has lost its sexy image to Samsung. in that sense, if BB10 gets 20% market share, this is good IMO. And of course, Samsung is not the only capable Android maker, so to expect BB10 to be a market leader is unrealistic.

It will save the company though, so in that sense it's a masterstroke.
If BB10 gets 20% market share, I'll eat my hat.

And I don't even own a hat. I'll have to go buy a hat, then eat it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:49 AM   #190
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Yeah TBH I think it'll struggle to hit that, it's still got a solid lead on WP in terms of overall market-share last I checked though.
So it's got a good chance of staying clear (or keeping pace at the very least) if they play their cards right...
OMAP4470 for many countries wasn't a terribly bright move though, but we're yet to hear if it's really "rest of the world" for it.

A per these posts....
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthre...5#post34566185
Anyone know if this is just a straight Cortex A9, or a hybrid design, ala Krait & Apple's Swift-core:
http://www.stericsson.com/products/L8580.jsp
Is it likely to be competitive with SoC's arriving on phones this year? (software aside)

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Old 01-31-2013, 09:20 AM   #191
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So what does ios/android/wp have OOTB for the corporate env. that BBX definitely doesn't have?
(And just as importantly, what does it have that they don't?)
Unfortunately statements like that don't mean much without some sort of qualification...
I think you should re-read my post. The reason why Blackberries are used in certain corporate environments is because of their ability to be reconstructed by IT departments to block wifi/3g at the hardware level, or to tailor the phones to specified confidential uses. In those environments, Blackberries have reigned supreme - and I was hoping that Blackberry would have brought out something with mass market appeal, in addition to the above peculiarities to their phones that I described. I deliberately under-described the features, though, so as not to indicate my profession. Ask friends of yours with corporate phones and check.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:01 AM   #192
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The S4 Plus isn't exactly a slouch... and it has excellent battery life to go with it. Much better than anything else BB has had

That being said, BB is still going down hill fast in my opinion. They need to go full blown Android
That is a HUGE fail. Going Android turns them in to a pure hardware manufacturer. They can't compete with Samsung, HTC, and LG at this. Heck, that's probably one of the reasons why they are releasing hardware similar to the GS III now - they don't have the scale, buying power, and backwards integration.

RIM is a software company and you want them to give up on software and services to that software?

QNX is the best mobile OS out there. BlackBerrys are rock solid from a security standpoint. Androids are rooted in minutes.

And you still want them to give up on their OS?
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:41 AM   #193
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That is a HUGE fail. Going Android turns them in to a pure hardware manufacturer. They can't compete with Samsung, HTC, and LG at this. Heck, that's probably one of the reasons why they are releasing hardware similar to the GS III now - they don't have the scale, buying power, and backwards integration.

RIM is a software company and you want them to give up on software and services to that software?

QNX is the best mobile OS out there. BlackBerrys are rock solid from a security standpoint. Androids are rooted in minutes.

And you still want them to give up on their OS?
People always say that "Manufacturer [x] should just go Android!" What they either forget (or don't care) is just that it's very difficult to make money on Android. Samsung makes gobs of it, but they're really the only one - and even they are consistently toying with other platforms (including their own).
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:43 AM   #194
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I don't recall people saying they should go exclusively Android, but rather offer hardware on the Android platform in addition to whatever else is out there.
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Old 01-31-2013, 10:49 AM   #195
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People always say that "Manufacturer [x] should just go Android!" What they either forget (or don't care) is just that it's very difficult to make money on Android. Samsung makes gobs of it, but they're really the only one - and even they are consistently toying with other platforms (including their own).
As I said in a previous thread, you could and probably *should* generalize this even further: it's very difficult to make money on mobile hardware period. Android has just given Samsung et al. -- fundamentally, hardware companies -- a space to get in the game.

Now BB is already in the game. But oh, that huge app pool... BB definitely wanted to tap it, even if they didn't want to enter the brand space altogether. I figured they'd have a better native wrapper than this emulator thing -- and wouldn't forking Android, like Amazon did, actually have achieved the optimal app result, while taking no more time than their revamp of QNX? I don't know enough about the guts (or their particular infrastructure/security needs) to say.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:06 AM   #196
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I had have to say that BB going full-on Android would be a way for BB to completely ensure they fail.

They would lose any differentiation they still have, it wouldn't help their mainstream consumer customer base, and it would be a good incentive for their corporate/enterprise customers to leave them in droves.

I see Android porting, etc. as only a stop-gap measure. In the future that would be terminated, because in reality it's a half-assed approach.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:09 AM   #197
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I don't recall people saying they should go exclusively Android, but rather offer hardware on the Android platform in addition to whatever else is out there.
How do you take "they need to go full-blown Android"?

There's nothing really compelling about the hardware. It looks pretty nice, but it's not a 1920x1080 screen. It's smooth, but it's Snapdragon S4 plus, not pro. It's got a good camera, but not 12 MP. It's a nice size, but it's not 5".

If you put Android on this thing, they won't be able to compete against any other manufacturer. Not to mention the huge branding issues associated with going android.

"The new Android BlackBerry A10" - what?

Going Android is giving up. They have all the pieces they need to be successful on their own, they just need to execute well.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:18 AM   #198
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Not to mention the huge branding issues associated with going android.

"The new Android BlackBerry A10" - what?

Going Android is giving up. They have all the pieces they need to be successful on their own, they just need to execute well.
Don't think branding is an issue. Kindle Fire doesn't mention Android.

And you may be right... for certain modest values of "successful". They aren't passing Apple or Samsung again.
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Old 01-31-2013, 11:24 AM   #199
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I've watched the engadget video and I have to say it didn't look as bad as many have me believe to be. The hardware looks sleak and UI seems responsive enough. If BB had maintained sizable marketshare (say, 20%-ish) with at least competent ecosystem, I could see many current BB users upgrading to BB10. And along the way it could pick up new users.

Said that, the OS looks a bit barebone-ish. The new UI and gesture (hybrid of Windows Phone + iOS + Android, lol) do have quite a few rough edges, but they are innovative enough to have future potential. Assuming those edges will be patched over time, I thought it's quite refreshing. They are copy-cat, but added just enough innovation to differentiate themselves.

The bigger issue to me seems the lackluster stock apps. Multimedia player functionality was barely mentioned in reviews, and the map/nav looks obviously lacking. It's similar to Windows Phone in this regard, although I've heard bing maps are great, in that the OS seems somewhat lacking in feature thus it looks, again, barebone-ish. It's like a collection of containers that you need to fiil up yourself over time. I think users would prefer a bit more help and nudges towards richer experiences than simply being handed to an empty box.

The segregation strat between corporate space and private space idea sounds neat enough. But that, too, will need polishing and updating. The keyboard looks great, though.

All in all, this would have been a good start for a.. oh, I don't know. The mediocre hardware doesn't bother me too much but I wish the product was more finished and polished. I thought they'd been working on it for quite a long time.

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Old 01-31-2013, 11:36 AM   #200
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It's similar to Windows Phone in this regard, although I've heard bing maps are great
I've heard that Bing Maps kinda sucks outside of North America, sort of how Apple Maps sucks in many areas.

I was watching a video the other day from Australia showing Bing Maps listing big restaurant chain outlets being on the same street almost next door to each other when in reality they were in other parts of the city.
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