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Old 01-25-2013, 03:10 PM   #1
JonathanYoung
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Default My thoughts on Windows 8, and why I went back to Windows 7...

I posted this on my blog, let me know what you guys think...

http://joyojc.com/2013/01/my-thoughts-on-windows-8/

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I’ve been reading quite a few articles on Microsoft’s latest OS, so I thought I’d chime in with some of my own thoughts.

I used Windows 8 for about 3 weeks. During that period of time, I learned about the new Start screen, the removal of the Start menu, Charms, Hyper-V and Win-X. I enjoyed the speed of the new OS. I thought the new Task Manager and copy dialog were huge improvements. Having the taskbar on both screens was a boon. In the end, however, I concluded that the way I used Windows 8 was too similar to how I used Windows 7, with the difference being that Windows 8 actually removed functionality that I wanted. In other words, Windows 8 offered nothing compelling enough for me to upgrade.

I have never been a fan of Microsoft simply removing features in new operating systems rather than making them optional. For example, I still miss the network activity tray icon that was available (and optional) in Windows XP. When Vista came along, the icon showed activity, but not which direction. With Windows 7, the icon was completely removed. Still, I upgraded from XP to 7 because the benefits of 7 outweighed its drawbacks. I wanted to say the same for 8. Here’s a list of things that did not work (for me) in Windows 8:

Virtual PC 2007 – Yes, I realize that this program is old, but I have a few virtual machines running MS-DOS, Linux, Windows 98, and Windows 2000. I could not get them to work properly under Hyper-V. In addition, Hyper-V does not support sound, which meant no Windows 98 games. It was suggested that I could move over to VirtualBox, but that would have meant learning a new application and probably re-installing my precious virtual machines that I had already configured to my liking.

Desktop gadgets – I really liked the slideshow and CPU usage gadgets in Windows 7. If my PC ever acted strangely, a quick glance at the CPU gadget would tell me if something was hogging up the CPU. The slideshow would brighten up my day with random photos of JC or my family. Again, I’m sure there are 3rd-party offerings for Windows 8 that achieve the same thing, but again, nothing else in 8 compels me to do the legwork to find them.

Some old games – I had issues with Unreal Tournament and Star Trek Armada II. These are ancient games, but they worked perfectly fine in Windows 7. To be fair, it may have been NVIDIA’s drivers, but probably not since the same drivers work fine in 7.

Wireless keyboard – I have a wireless handheld USB keyboard that I use for HTPC purposes. The arrow keys no longer worked to navigate through files in Windows Explorer.

Start Menu – I put this last on the list because unlike a lot of other users, the removal of the Start Menu did not really hinder my use of Windows 8. Actually, I thought that the Start screen was a giant (read: full screen), backwards version of the Start Menu. Like Windows 7, you could simply hit the Windows key and then type the name of the program you want to run. Unlike Windows 7, you can no longer hit the Windows key and type the name of a file you want to find. I forget exactly now, but in Windows 8 you have to hit an extra key combo (I think it is Alt-f?) after the Windows key to search for files. Also, unlike Windows 7 and every other Windows before it, installing Desktop programs means that every shortcut that used to appear in the program’s group in the Start Menu (or Program Manager if you go back far enough) now shows up as a tile in the Start screen. After a while, my Start screen was getting cluttered up with random tiles such as “Read the manual” or “Uninstall”. At least in the old Start Menu, these items were hidden in their respective program folders.

The other odd thing about the Start screen is that clicking a tile for a Desktop program took you to the Desktop (duh?). I think this is the drawback of trying to combine a desktop operating system with a tablet one. Windows 8 starts up to this pretty Start screen, but when I click the Firefox tile I’m taken to a screen that looks like Windows 7. I kept thinking, what’s the point? I ended up never using the Start screen at all, instead opting to simply hit the Windows key upon every start-up.

With Android and iOS encroaching on and taking over a lot of Microsoft’s old territory, I can understand why Redmond would try to make Windows 8 tablet and phone-centric. What I don’t understand is why they didn’t just create a separate product for tablets and call it Surface or something. The few Windows 8 Apps I used took up the entire screen, and other than Desktop mode, nothing in Windows 8 actually uses windows.

My impression of Windows 8 is that it doesn’t seem to know what it wants to be. I have both an Android phone and tablet so it’s not like I’m unfamiliar with using touchscreens and mobile apps, but when I’m on my desktop computer I have no desire to use it like I do my phone or tablet. My current 24-inch monitor is 2 feet away from me; I can’t even reach it, and even if I could, my arm would get tired. Yet, a lot of PC manufacturers are embracing Windows 8 and creating all-in-ones with touchscreens. Would I really want a huge 27-inch all-in-one in my face so that I could touch-interface with it? Would I type an email on the keyboard and then reach up to touch “send”? I don’t see myself doing that.

I commend Microsoft for trying something new and trying to revolutionize the way we use our PCs (removing the Start Menu after 17 years is arguably revolutionary), but it just seems like they saw the desktop market shrinking and decided to slap something together so they could get a piece of the touchscreen action. For me, the experiment was a failure. I tried to embrace Windows 8′s new features but found myself naturally gravitating back to the desktop space while completely ignoring the Windows Store and Start screen. Looking back at how Microsoft responded to ME and Vista, I hold out hope that Microsoft gives Windows back its identity.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:33 PM   #2
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Didn't Microsoft sort of confirm many user complaints by "letting go" of Stephen Sinofsky, who was Windows 8's chief architect?
Also: I agree that touch enabled PC's are not the sort of "advance" that most people really want. It would introduce a new set of arm movements that are inherently a poor method of interacting, compared with desk-level mouse and keyboard.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:19 PM   #3
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why did you feel the need for another Windows 8 Metro No Start Menu blah blah blah bashing thread?

Join the rest of the sheep and post in 1000000 anti Windows 8 threads in this sub-forum. No one cares, millions who are enjoying the OS are not beating on their chest on forums.

This kind of crap posting is exactly the kind of thing that will get you in trouble if you keep it up much longer. If you aren't being helpful or adding value to the discussion, then don't waste anyone's time by posting
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:22 PM   #4
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I'm not sure there can really ever be enough Windows 8 sucks threads.

Maybe if every BB everywhere is full of these kinds of threads M$ will get come to their senses and give us our desktop and start menu back. Oh and disable Edge Swipe for touch pad users...
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:52 PM   #5
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seriously, windows 8 is terribad, fix it naow
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:19 PM   #6
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That just another example of how History keep repeating it self.

When the Cars started to come out more than 100 years ago there was similar reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws


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Old 01-26-2013, 04:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueychan View Post
why did you feel the need for another Windows 8 Metro No Start Menu blah blah blah bashing thread?

Join the rest of the sheep and post in 1000000 anti Windows 8 threads in this sub-forum. No one cares, millions who are enjoying the OS are not beating on their chest on forums.
Windows users who use windows and who find Windows 8 and the direction that microsoft is heading, namely:
...and then there's the terrible aesthetic.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:06 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by JackMDS View Post
That just another example of how History keep repeating it self.

When the Cars started to come out more than 100 years ago there was similar reaction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_flag_traffic_laws


??
perhaps a "Microsoft MVP" (as per your sig) shouldn't expect to have an unbiased opinion, nor comment as if that's the case.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:37 AM   #9
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??
perhaps a "Microsoft MVP" (as per your sig) shouldn't expect to have an unbiased opinion, nor comment as if that's the case.
I don't think that you know what Microsoft MVP is (Search).

What you guys donot get is that the 100 of Millions of "iDiots" - - that use the iPad, iPhone, iPod, iAndroid, iYouknow, iLike voted in the last years for touch tiles/icons.

The "funny" thing is the Enthusiasts that spend hundreds of hours in doing Modifications and refitting, OC, installing Flashing lights, etc. on their expensive Rigs, resent the few minutes that it takes to put a Metro bypass app and work with better Win 7 called Win 8.


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Old 01-26-2013, 01:19 PM   #10
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Not a bad write up.

I think of Win8 upgrade as a paid expansion for an MMO that allows player created mods.

It's still the same old MMO that you know about and might enjoy playing for the most part.
It has new performance/graphics/UI tweaks to make it a bit better.
It also has new things for me to learn about and to play around with
And..some of the talent trees/skills were probably modified/changed as well

I don't regret upgrading [granted I did manage to get the $14.99 price] and have no desire to go back to Win7 even though it was just fine and dandy.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueychan View Post
why did you feel the need for another Windows 8 Metro No Start Menu blah blah blah bashing thread?
because it's terrible and people want to rant.

Quote:
Join the rest of the sheep and post in 1000000 anti Windows 8 threads in this sub-forum. No one cares, millions who are enjoying the OS are not beating on their chest on forums.
fine, you don't care, and ms fanboys or shills don't care, but real users do, as evident by the almost unanimous bashing all over the internet.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by JackMDS View Post
The "funny" thing is the Enthusiasts that spend hundreds of hours in doing Modifications and refitting, OC, installing Flashing lights, etc. on their expensive Rigs, resent the few minutes that it takes to put a Metro bypass app and work with better Win 7 called Win 8.
The resentment is more philosophical than practical. This whole push on Metro just screams arrogance, thinking they can modify user behavior to fit their corporate agenda (and they may be right, thanks to the sheeple out there). I don't want to jump through hoops to avoid dealing with something that's completely useless to me.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:37 PM   #13
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Thanks for a well written and detailed opinion.

Myself I can't convince myself to try Win 8 even though I'm eligible to get it for $15.

I suppose the day will come when there's no choice.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom View Post
Thanks for a well written and detailed opinion.

Myself I can't convince myself to try Win 8 even though I'm eligible to get it for $15.

I suppose the day will come when there's no choice.
You should consider buying it right now just to have it. The $15 offer ends on the 31st.
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:15 PM   #15
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On a mod note: the OP is fully within their rights to rant about Windows 8, regardless of whether they like it or not. This is the correct forum for such posts, and quite frankly it's better written than 95% of the other posts in here. So attacking the op for merely posting that here will do nothing to endear you to the mods

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Old 01-26-2013, 03:25 PM   #16
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I don't want to jump through hoops to avoid dealing with something that's completely useless to me.
+1

I agree with this and have No problem what so ever if it presented this way.



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Old 01-26-2013, 05:00 PM   #17
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JonathanYoung :I do have wireless keyboard on one of my PCs with Win8 no issues with that,as to games obviously I can't test every possible game, but so far not found a game I can't run ie oldies like BG,BG2,Icewind Dale,KOTOR,KOTOR2 all running fine, very old games can have issues with modern drivers and configuration issues ie some like to be run in XP compatibility mode or run as admin etc...

As to Start Menu button well personally I don't miss the old Win7,Vista,XP style button since it goes back to Win95 days so was well overdue to be removed IMHO,I use Win+X Start menu with a few added programs like restart,shut down,paint,notepad etc....


I admire you for actually trying it for three weeks rather then just following the anti-8 crowd that gives FUD and not bothering to try it.

As to Metro especially in Win9 or Windows Blue(whatever they will call it) has been stated Metro will be getting refined and more options,however looks like still no old style start button that some desktop owners still miss,personally not an issue for me.

I think the reason why it boots straight to Metro start is because that is the new desktop ,seems like Microsoft are trying to get away from the old desktop and start menu UI IMHO,you could argue why not give desktop users an option to boot to old desktop well ask that to Microsoft.

I have been quite lucky with Windows since I've liked 95,98,XP,Vista,Win7,Win8,(only 3.1 and WinME did not like)so pretty good positive streak for me.

I also have Linux PC and Android smartphone and tablet so consider myself a guy that likes to try most things and not loyal to one company.


I'm enjoying Win8(I won't bother saying why) and look forward to Win9


Btw if I get time will install Unreal Tournament and let you know how it goes on Win8.


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Old 01-26-2013, 06:18 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMDS View Post
I don't think that you know what Microsoft MVP is (Search).

What you guys donot get is that the 100 of Millions of "iDiots" - - that use the iPad, iPhone, iPod, iAndroid, iYouknow, iLike voted in the last years for touch tiles/icons.

The "funny" thing is the Enthusiasts that spend hundreds of hours in doing Modifications and refitting, OC, installing Flashing lights, etc. on their expensive Rigs, resent the few minutes that it takes to put a Metro bypass app and work with better Win 7 called Win 8.


let me try out what you did there... - -

ok now that i've got that non-substantative bit of effervescent flair out of the way i'll carry further forward with the point that
a) hundreds upon hundreds upon huneds of millions of people do not have the slightest concept what is at risk in using a walled-off device that spys on their every action, that is built with hard-coded back-doors and that grants the maker of the software (in this case Microsoft - specifically windows 8) to arbitrarily inspect your hard-drive from Windows 8 headquarters and to then enter your computer.. sitting next to you, in your house... and delete applications from your hard drive... that sits in your computer, in your house.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...e-terms-of-use

...and the contention is that this makes windows 8 "better".

to be fair, win 7 has the same backdoors, the same spying... just no deletion... making 7 a bit better for anyone on the planet that cares about silly things like Liberty and Freedom to control what is on their own hardware sitting in their house.

i must say that i'm astonished.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:31 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by colonelciller View Post
let me try out what you did there... - -

ok now that i've got that non-substantative bit of effervescent flair out of the way i'll carry further forward with the point that
a) hundreds upon hundreds upon huneds of millions of people do not have the slightest concept what is at risk in using a walled-off device that spys on their every action, that is built with hard-coded back-doors and that grants the maker of the software (in this case Microsoft - specifically windows 8) to arbitrarily inspect your hard-drive from Windows 8 headquarters and to then enter your computer.. sitting next to you, in your house... and delete applications from your hard drive... that sits in your computer, in your house.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...e-terms-of-use

...and the contention is that this makes windows 8 "better".

to be fair, win 7 has the same backdoors, the same spying... just no deletion... making 7 a bit better for anyone on the planet that cares about silly things like Liberty and Freedom to control what is on their own hardware sitting in their house.

i must say that i'm astonished.
Just to clarify things, after reading the Terms of Use that you linked to, your above statements only apply to applications purchased in the "Windows Store" correct? It isn't like MS is saying they can scan your entire hard drive and remove any application they feel like.

I don't care for such terms of use, same with Apple's very similar conditions, just wanted to clarify the point a little bit.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:55 PM   #20
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I had issues with Unreal Tournament
Oh, no, not again! Seriously, UT just started working right for me again in Linux after I installed the latest 310 nVidia drivers - they sync it to my monitor's refresh rate.

That's UT99, right? I don't suppose you've checked if, say, UT2004 works? (Vehicles FTW, but I prefer 99 for most everything else.)
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #21
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why did you feel the need for another Windows 8 Metro No Start Menu blah blah blah bashing thread?
Except it's not that. It's a reasonably toned and detailed explanation of why he chose to go back to Windows 7.

It's definitely not a blahblahblah post....
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:40 PM   #22
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Except it's not that. It's a reasonably toned and detailed explanation of why he chose to go back to Windows 7.

It's definitely not a blahblahblah post....

I don't understand why some people/users don't try beta or free preview version of Win8 to see if they like it,saves a lot of wasted time in the long run and their money.....I always jump on the beta bandwagon etc ..will do for Win9(got a spare backup PC I use just for that ie testing etc...).

End of the day very easy to find out if you like Win8 before its even officially released.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #23
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I don't understand why some people/users don't try beta or free preview version of Win8 to see if they like it,saves a lot of wasted time in the long run and their money.....I always jump on the beta bandwagon etc ..will do for Win9(got a spare backup PC I use just for that ie testing etc...).

End of the day very easy to find out if you like Win8 before its even officially released.
The W8 user experience varies depending on the platform and is the worst with a touch-pad IMO. It is not so bad with a mouse or touch screen.

Also they changed some features in the final release that made it W8-final worse than the beta, which is part of where the complaints come from.

Anyhow in the case of W8 trying before you buy wouldn't have done much good since it was changed.

I got a copy of W8 because it came with my laptop, not from an "upgrade".
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:00 PM   #24
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The W8 user experience varies depending on the platform and is the worst with a touch-pad IMO. It is not so bad with a mouse or touch screen.

Also they changed some features in the final release that made it W8-final worse than the beta, which is part of where the complaints come from.

Anyhow in the case of W8 trying before you buy wouldn't have done much good since it was changed.

I got a copy of W8 because it came with my laptop, not from an "upgrade".
I disagree on Win8 part ie you still had Metro and no Start button or Aero which is what a lot of users are moaning about,personally I did not see much change between beta and final version,we can agree to differ on this part.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #25
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I disagree on Win8 part ie you still had Metro and no Start button or Aero which is what a lot of users are moaning about,personally I did not see much change between beta and final version,we can agree to differ on this part.
Evidently there was an easy way to bypass Metro and boot directly to the desktop in the Windows 8 Developer Preview that was removed.

My single biggest issue was Edge Swipe on the track pad causing seemingly random full screen popups. If you don't use a track pad you really don't understand how annoying and confusing that can be. Naturally I got it sorted out but less technically savvy people are having fits with it.

You are clearly a brighter than average user and I think that interferes with your judgement on this issue. All this stuff was easy for you to figure out so you can't imagine how much trouble it has caused for others.
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