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Old 01-24-2013, 07:33 PM   #1
TheDarkKnight
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Default No "PCI" support for Intel H77(panther point) chipset?

Someone please explain to me what "PCI" support = "NO" means with regards to the Intel H77(Panther Point) chipset:
http://ark.intel.com/compare/64030,6...21,52807,64018

And how this affects pairing the Intel H77 chipset with the following MSI motherboard which actually has 3 PCI slots?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813130674

If the NorthBridge chipset(the H77 chipset) doesn't support PCI slots does that simply mean that MSI motherboard linked to above makes up for that slack on the motherboard through another chipset? What chipset would that be exactly on the board I have linked to above?

Would it be a better solution to purchase another Intel chipset that "does" have PCI-Support = Yes?

Also, I see that the Intel Q77 chipset is the 'sole' chipset that provides Virtualization Technology and "Trusted Execution Technology".

I would like those two technologies but could care less about the vPro technology.

The small difference in price says I should probably just get a motherboard with the Q77 chipset.

Lastly, what do the leading chipset letters stand for? I am assuming that the 'Z' is for overclockers, and the 'B' is for business. Is 'H' for home users?

Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:52 PM   #2
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no Native PCI.....they can still add PCIe to PCI bridges
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:03 PM   #3
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no Native PCI.....they can still add PCIe to PCI bridges
I like ur cat avatar, so cute
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:11 PM   #4
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Why do people link to retailer websites, MSI ZH77A-G43

It's the ASMedia ASM1083

Super slow hi-res image (between THX and Design in Taiwan at the top)

Panther Point

Last edited by Vectronic; 01-24-2013 at 08:17 PM. Reason: links and such
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:34 PM   #5
TheDarkKnight
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Default Nobody really answered my question

One person came close. But they basically stated what I already knew. That there is no native PCI support in the Intel H77 Panther Point chipset.

Im assuming that MSI didn't design their motherboard to have 3 dead PCI slots on it just to take up space. How do they work...if the H77 chipset doesn't drive them, what chipset does?

On an unrelated completely irrelevant note, the reason I linked to the retailer site is because it was the path of least resistance. It was the loaded page in my browser at the moment and as human beings generally are sometimes, I am lazy. I state under oath and penalty of perjury that I am NOT an employee or relative of any employee of the above referenced retailer in this thread. Thank you for your full cooperation.

Last edited by TheDarkKnight; 01-24-2013 at 11:37 PM.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:57 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
Im assuming that MSI didn't design their motherboard to have 3 dead PCI slots on it just to take up space. How do they work...if the H77 chipset doesn't drive them, what chipset does?
Vectronic answered the question. There is an ASMedia ASM1083 that bridges PCI-E to PCI. It can be seen on high-res photos of the board.
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Old 01-25-2013, 12:36 AM   #7
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Aww man, I was trying to be super-secretive or at least highly ambiguous with my direct links to the manufacturers description, and providing an image of the chip itself.

Now it's all blown out of the water and there's fish and chips everywhere.

That board has an H77 Southbridge, which means 8 PCI-E lanes with a max of x4 speed, if you look at the details of the motherboard (or the image) it has:
2x PCI-E x16
2x PCI-E x1

One of the x16 runs at x4... so:
x16 (@16) / x4 = 4 lanes
x16 (@4) / x4 = 1 lane
x1 = 1 lane
x1 = 1 lane

7 lanes... that 8th lane that H77 has, gets fed into the ASM1083, which splits it into 3 PCI buses... most H/Q/Z77 boards that have conventional PCI have that chip.

As far as Q/H/Z goes, you were more or less correct:
H = Home
Q = Office
Z = Q + H (actually Q+H = Y, so H+Q+1)
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:40 AM   #8
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The B/Q PCH's still have native PCI.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by lamedude View Post
The B/Q PCH's still have native PCI.
The Q chipsets also have plenty of other features that the Z chipsets don't have (AMT remote control, for example).
Q is H developed into the enterprise direction, while Z is H developed into the performance direction.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:00 AM   #10
TheDarkKnight
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Originally Posted by Vectronic View Post
Aww man, I was trying to be super-secretive or at least highly ambiguous with my direct links to the manufacturers description, and providing an image of the chip itself.

Now it's all blown out of the water and there's fish and chips everywhere.

That board has an H77 Southbridge, which means 8 PCI-E lanes with a max of x4 speed, if you look at the details of the motherboard (or the image) it has:
2x PCI-E x16
2x PCI-E x1

One of the x16 runs at x4... so:
x16 (@16) / x4 = 4 lanes
x16 (@4) / x4 = 1 lane
x1 = 1 lane
x1 = 1 lane

7 lanes... that 8th lane that H77 has, gets fed into the ASM1083, which splits it into 3 PCI buses... most H/Q/Z77 boards that have conventional PCI have that chip.

As far as Q/H/Z goes, you were more or less correct:
H = Home
Q = Office
Z = Q + H (actually Q+H = Y, so H+Q+1)
Thank you for your very informative posts. I guess I missed the chipset name completely because I had never heard of it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:08 AM   #11
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I had no idea B75 supported PCI,
my H61 certainly doesn't (it uses an ITE IT8892 connected to a single PCIE lane for 2 PCI slots ),

the bridge chip works fine for my sound card, but I had a few incompatibility issues with PCI video cards, and if you use something that demands a lot of bandwidth it can be slower or more problematic

but for H/Z it works the same as this:

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:13 PM   #12
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Alot of features on motherboards are not features of chipsets, not long ago, USB 3.0 was bridged rather than native, same goes with PCI now. To just correct you, the northbridge no longer exists on motherboard, it's hidden in CPU. The H77 or whatever the chipset is, and what actually chipset is now is southbridge which can be found on the right side next to the expansion slots.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Sheep221 View Post
Alot of features on motherboards are not features of chipsets, not long ago, USB 3.0 was bridged rather than native, same goes with PCI now. To just correct you, the northbridge no longer exists on motherboard, it's hidden in CPU. The H77 or whatever the chipset is, and what actually chipset is now is southbridge which can be found on the right side next to the expansion slots.
I learn something new everyday. I knew that Intel had been implementing IGPs on the CPU for awhile now. I wasn't aware that they(Intel) had integrated their northbridge chipsets into the CPU. Can somebody else confirm this? If this is the case why do they list all of their chipsets separately on their website as though they were single stand-alone products all with a set-price? I just purchased the Intel 3rd Generation Core i3-3225. If the northbridge chipset were integrated into the CPU itself how is it that you can buy multiple different motherboards designated as having a specific chipset? Has someone been smoking the crack pipe a bit...what am I missing? I must be confusing "northbridge" chipsets as being the same thing as desktop chipsets.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:32 PM   #14
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things have changed over the years, these simple diagrams should help you understand

back in the day of good old the "northbridge + southbridge",



now:

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:21 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
If the northbridge chipset were integrated into the CPU itself how is it that you can buy multiple different motherboards designated as having a specific chipset?.
The same as before really, just even better! (sarcasm? maybe).

Instead of the Northbridge being physical chips on the motherboard, they are physical chips on the CPU die... but otherwise the motherboard still has to support that specific I/O (which is more or less standardized now).

The benefit to this is noticeable between Sandy and Ivy Bridge, where some motherboards supporting both processors can handle the features of Sandy Bridge, but also Ivy Bridge... you can get USB3, PCI-E3, and DDR3 2800+ by just getting an Ivy Bridge processor... rather than having to buy both a new motherboard and a new processor.

I tried finding a more complete diagram than SPBHM posted, failed... but there can be quite a few branches/bridges off of those in the diagram too.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:31 PM   #16
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The same as before really, just even better! (sarcasm? maybe).

Instead of the Northbridge being physical chips on the motherboard, they are physical chips on the CPU die... but otherwise the motherboard still has to support that specific I/O (which is more or less standardized now).

The benefit to this is noticeable between Sandy and Ivy Bridge, where some motherboards supporting both processors can handle the features of Sandy Bridge, but also Ivy Bridge... you can get USB3, PCI-E3, and DDR3 2800+ by just getting an Ivy Bridge processor... rather than having to buy both a new motherboard and a new processor.

I tried finding a more complete diagram than SPBHM posted, failed... but there can be quite a few branches/bridges off of those in the diagram too.
I am still not getting something. People are saying the northbridge chips have been moved from the motherboard onto the same die as the CPU. Okay, that makes sense in theory. Now, how does intel get multiple northbridge chipsets onto a single model CPU.

I just purchased a i3-3225 Ivy Bridge CPU. So what chipset of the multiple Panther Point chipsets that are shown on Intels website will be on my i3-3225 Ivy Bridge CPU when it arrives? Will it be the H77 or the Z75 or the Z77? Is it like playing the lottery when you buy a new CPU now? The MSI motherboard I just ordered to go with this new CPU is designated as an H77 motherboard but my incoming i3-3225 has no such chipset designation.

Still confused.
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:43 PM   #17
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You're talking about the Southbridge... that depends on your board, B/H/Q/Z, 75, or 77.

The Northbridge basically just doesn't exist anymore.

Your Ivy Bridge could be tossed into any of a number of 1155 sockets, and will behave according to the Southbridge of that motherboard.

I say "Southbridge" but it's not really even a Southbridge if you compare it to the older Southbridges... it's the PCH, which is like South + a bit of Northbridge... and is the "Chipset".

Last edited by Vectronic; 01-25-2013 at 09:48 PM. Reason: links
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:16 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
I am still not getting something. People are saying the northbridge chips have been moved from the motherboard onto the same die as the CPU. Okay, that makes sense in theory. Now, how does intel get multiple northbridge chipsets onto a single model CPU.

I just purchased a i3-3225 Ivy Bridge CPU. So what chipset of the multiple Panther Point chipsets that are shown on Intels website will be on my i3-3225 Ivy Bridge CPU when it arrives? Will it be the H77 or the Z75 or the Z77? Is it like playing the lottery when you buy a new CPU now? The MSI motherboard I just ordered to go with this new CPU is designated as an H77 motherboard but my incoming i3-3225 has no such chipset designation.

Still confused.
You are overthinking things. The northbridge in the traditional sense has been integrated onto Intel CPUs for a long time. The Z77 or whatever chipset for the CPU is only referring to the southbridge chip on the mobo.
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Old 01-26-2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by TheDarkKnight View Post
I learn something new everyday. I knew that Intel had been implementing IGPs on the CPU for awhile now. I wasn't aware that they(Intel) had integrated their northbridge chipsets into the CPU. Can somebody else confirm this? If this is the case why do they list all of their chipsets separately on their website as though they were single stand-alone products all with a set-price? I just purchased the Intel 3rd Generation Core i3-3225. If the northbridge chipset were integrated into the CPU itself how is it that you can buy multiple different motherboards designated as having a specific chipset? Has someone been smoking the crack pipe a bit...what am I missing? I must be confusing "northbridge" chipsets as being the same thing as desktop chipsets.
The northbridge is so called memory controller and southbridge is IO controller. Integrating northbridge to the cpu die has many advantages especially better compatibility, higher speed, less heat, less power consumption, is more conventional.
Since then, motherboard is no longer a performance based component and only works as wiring bus between cpu and the rest of the system.
How can possibly all intel cpus work with all the different chipsets? Well all offered chipsets are exactly same thing but depending on price they offer more features, they are wired same way and are connected with CPU same way, which allows compatibility between all cpus and all chipsets together.

The northbridge could be seen just under the CPU on Socket 775 and AM2 and all older mobos.
It looked like that

And now it looks like this, the northbridge is no longer present on motherboard, but it's inside the CPU

You bought an i3 which motherboard you select for it is no longer a compatibility thing, you only have to choose based on features you want to have on mobo. But since the i3 is locked for overclocking you would be overpaying for Z68 a Z77, so get either H77 or B75 board
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