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Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM   #1
rudder
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Default Woman in combat

Surprised this has not been discussed yet. So Leon Panetta gave the go ahead for women to join front line infantry units. Obviously women serving now have seen combat, but this is a new level.

Is this good or bad? I was PDQed when I joined the Army years ago... so other than my 3 days at the processing centers I haven't been in a combat unit.

Overall I think there are probably some women who are physically capable. But I am not really for this new rule. I think the numbers of women desiring to be in the role is probably pretty small. The military is probably looking at a big expense to integrate this small number of female soldiers into combat units.

Interested to hear the thoughts of others. Is it about time or is this just political correctness run rampant.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:03 AM   #2
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Require that all women who want to serve in combat units be required to go through the exact same training as men and meet all the same physical requirements.

This should hopefully mitigate most costs in integrating the units and ensure there is little/no loss in combat effectiveness.

Also, pregnancy in women in combat units should not be tolerated.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:04 AM   #3
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As long as they are physically capable, I see no problem with it.

Now they just have to get the selective service rules changed so that everyone has to sign up.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:07 AM   #4
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I have a couple of issues with it.

A. The idea of a woman being captured is a nightmare scenario imo
B. If we can get past the above issue. Let them pass the standard PT test. No lowering the bar for equality. If a woman can pass that and the same basic training as a man. Then welcome to combat. Otherwise if we lower the bar all we are doing is putting woman into situations they cant possibly hope to win. And that will get people killed.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:09 AM   #5
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A. The idea of a woman being captured is a nightmare scenario imo
Torture is torture, regardless of whether it is against men or women.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #6
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Why did they make this decision now? panetta is somewhat an extremist and I am curious whats his motive for this

If women are to be in combat then they must face the same requirements as men

What would happen if they get captured? Numerous women soldiers have been raped and faced terrible abuse from captors

There is a reason why most other countries dont allow them in combat
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:12 AM   #7
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Torture is torture, regardless of whether it is against men or women.
It is but lets be honest with ourselves. The idea of a woman being tortured or raped will generate more outrage than a man.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #8
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It is but lets be honest with ourselves. The idea of a woman being tortured or raped will generate more outrage than a man.
I certainly agree with that. I just don't think it's a valid reason to keep physically and mentally capable women out of combat roles though.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #9
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If you watched the Rachel Maddow show you would know why this is a good idea.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...in_combat.html
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:25 AM   #10
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I can definitely see both sides on this. Women want and have equality in most things, so why not allow them to be in front line infantry units? I do think they need to be able to pass the exact same physical tests that men do. The few real issues I see are:
1. Quarters. You'll have to have separate barracks and facilities for females. I'm sure this is already worked out with existing female soldiers, so not a big deal.
2. Pregnancy. I don't think a pregnant woman needs to be on the front line. This is a distraction and the nature of this unit could result in miscarriages.
3. Chivalry. Men will do some dumb emotional crap for women that they wouldn't do for men. I could definitely see male squad mates making poor decisions based on wanting to "save the girl."

I think you could mitigate most of these by making female only units, though I'm not sure you'd be able to sell that as PC. Female only units would all bunk together, have a somewhat reduced chance of pregnancy, and have a lower chance of crazy decisions based on male gallantry.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:28 AM   #11
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2. Pregnancy. I don't think a pregnant woman needs to be on the front line. This is a distraction and the nature of this unit could result in miscarriages.
I honestly don't know why pregnancy is allowed in the military in general.

But it certainly has no place in combat units.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:36 AM   #12
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Fine. Then we need to hold women to the same standards as men. The exact same standards.

Right now we have weakened physical standards and lowered the bar to keep women in the service along with promoting them. When the PT standards start getting too close to the men's standards we find that women don't do very well with the exception of a few outliers.

So are we going to hold women accountable or are we just going to let them slither up the ranks like we have been? I'm guessing women will continue to slime their way along.

This is a problem with women simply being in the military. Easier PT standards created to give women a boost over men that are held to a higher standard.

Now we get to actual frontline combat. So lowering standards for women that can't hack it no longer just affects someone getting promoted, now it's going to result in potentially someone getting killed. Fuck that.

Same exact physical standards as men across the board or just simply get the fuck out and do something else.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #13
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If certain female soldiers want to be in a combat unit and is physically and mentally capable, then by all means.

However, I don't want to use hyperboles to discard their effectiveness, but I just hope they are willing to go all the way when it comes to combat. What if a woman, in all her motherly love, hesitate to put a bullet in an enemy combatant and risk her squadmates lives, I'd have a problem with that. But you can argue the same thing for men. I also find that women are more emotionally based when it comes to decision making, so I don't know how that will play out during combat.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:43 AM   #14
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If we were still a sane nation I'd say fuck no to this, men and women are different and denying that is silly.

Since we've already done so many things that screw men over since the 60's, particularly in custody, divorce court, societal expectations, the draft, etc etc... I'm actually currently in favor of this. It's about time feminism starts to be about more than just getting the good stuff, and ignoring the bad.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:46 AM   #15
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Sign their asses up for the draft too.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:47 AM   #16
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I really don't care. I don't have all that gushy "women only as medics" type of thought. If they want to get shot so be it. I do however, find it incredibly stupid. Women are naturally weaker than men. I agree with the poster that said let them go through the same restrictions/training as males. If they can't do it, then GTFO. Women don't produce anywhere near the testosterone to have muscles capable of carrying 200lbs in a desert for miles. But hey - women are fans of denial, so whatever.

HOWEVER, it is in basic male human instinct to protect females, even if it involves almost suicide-esque actions. I can see this being a problem, though I'm not one to judge it.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:51 AM   #17
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So are we going to hold women accountable or are we just going to let them slither up the ranks like we have been? I'm guessing women will continue to slime their way along.
Awww, sounds like someone was a fuckup in the service and found a way to blame women.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:54 AM   #18
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I have no problem with it, as long as they can meet the same requirements. As a practical matter, if a woman can meet all those requirements then I'd suggest putting her in one of the 5 special forces groups. If she can meet everything then she's one hell of a female and would probably fit in better with with the heightened maturity and resources of a group rather than your typical infantry unit.
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:55 AM   #19
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Awww, sounds like someone was a fuckup in the service and found a way to blame women.


Sorry, not even close. I'm well decorated and was promoted faster than my peers. It however is a fact that men in the military have to deal with. You would know nothing about that however.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:32 PM   #20
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Sorry, not even close. I'm well decorated and was promoted faster than my peers. It however is a fact that men in the military have to deal with. You would know nothing about that however.
Apparently "not raping women" is something a lot of them have issues with.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:43 PM   #21
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Default Drafting of women and men will be the next step

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Sign their asses up for the draft too.
I think that it will be the next step. Honestly there is no reason not to, men and women should both be drafted in my opinion.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:49 PM   #22
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I think that it will be the next step. Honestly there is no reason not to, men and women should both be drafted in my opinion.
Something tells me feminism will get butt-hurt and then openly contradict themselves if we did that

Which would be beautiful. Bring it on.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:50 PM   #23
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I wish my Ex would go, hell she could hold her own.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:02 PM   #24
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The way I understood it is that it was never about the ability of women in combat but more what is likely to happen to women captured in combat.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:04 PM   #25
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Quote:
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The way I understood it is that it was never about the ability of women in combat but more what is likely to happen to women captured in combat.
They will get to experience the true joys of equality

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If we were still a sane nation I'd say fuck no to this, men and women are different and denying that is silly.
If I were more hopeful I would say this might help highlight the difference.
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