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Old 01-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Well, it's not just about usual battery life. It's also about Android's ability to deal with applications that have excessive battery use under certain configs.

Like I said before I've wiped my Nexus 7 twice to eliminate severe battery drain issues. While I haven't had these problems on my RAZR HD, I've read many similar reports of the same behaviour with various Android phones, and it's sometimes very hard to troubleshoot. Just yesterday I read a thread at my carrier's forum from a guy complaining of super-fast battery drain from his RAZR HD. I suspect the main reason I haven't had these problems on my RAZR HD is because I've become much more conservative with what I will install on my Android devices. (I had my Nexus 7 before my RAZR HD.)
I guess I see your point but to me battery life is a non issue. Motorola has solved that problem with the RM and RMHD hardware. I currently charge my RMHD pretty much every third day and I never even worry about it. I would prefer google spend its resources solving problems that actually affect the usefulness of the OS to me, such as predictive algorithms within google now for instance, or maybe figuring out how to get handset manufacturers to push out more frequent and less "skinned" OS updates
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:08 PM   #27
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In general, I find that it's pretty easy for an Android phone to gobble up data. On an iPhone unless you're actively using apps, data use is far more limited in idle conditions. It's for this reason I could get away with the 200mb plan and see friends getting away on 200mb on an iPhone. On Android? I've never been below 800mb for months, and I'd have to try hard to stay low.
I'm under 150 MB right now after two weeks this monthly cycle on my Android phone. On my (very slow) iPhone 4 I was using about the same amount of data on average.

It also should be noted that iOS 6 seems to have a bug, particularly with the iPhone 5, that has caused many users to use several GB (!) of data unintentionally.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:38 PM   #28
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Android has been the platform that has had the phone with the best battery life for well over a year(And today probably holds the top 4 or 5 slots for best phone battery life). Lots of Android phones have poor battery life but not all.
HTC is responsible for, and continuing, the myth that Android has poor battery life. Galaxy S3, battery of 2100mah, user removable. HTC Droid DNA, integrated 2040mah. This isn't a new trend either, they always have a battery thats a few hundred mah smaller than their competitors.
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:52 PM   #29
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You're just pulling reasons out of thin air. Any proof project butter causes excessive battery drain? Or how not being 'pure push' is in fact the cause?

Your Nexus 4 is more than likely suffering from this
http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=41855
He's pulling reasons out of his ass. Battery life is about the same on Galaxy Nexus running ICS vs JB. JB has project butter and Google Now and the battery life is still about the same as ICS.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:04 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DLeRium View Post
Project butter ramps CPU to 1ghz upon ANY touch event. Two cores chugging at 1ghz each. Why? To combat lag. Effectively, Google just made the CPU more responsive. It's like if you just used the performance governor to begin with.

Ok, then there's the fact that butter makes sure the UI is a dedicated thread that stays running at full speed.

How is this not using more power? The CPU is more responsive, blah blah. Yeah there's things like vsync, but the fundamental issue here is the lack of GPU rendering requiring loads of CPU power being thrown at it. Project butter makes sure the CPU is tasked consistently to maintain 60 fps and also it makes sure the CPU is more responsive so that there aren't slowdowns.

Look, I appreciate lag-free, but this isn't a complete solution. It may be a limitation of Android due to the vast amounts of hardware platforms out there, or whatever excuse there is, but it's not as efficient as say iOS or Windows Phone.

Then there's apps. Lots of apps sync. All apps other than the official Twitter app will pull data on a regular basis. The Facebook app pulls data. In fact Twitter refuses to give you push notifications unless you sync data at an interval. Combine that with your weather widgets, google reader, etc. all pulling data at fixed intervals, it's pretty clear data is used a lot.

In general, I find that it's pretty easy for an Android phone to gobble up data. On an iPhone unless you're actively using apps, data use is far more limited in idle conditions. It's for this reason I could get away with the 200mb plan and see friends getting away on 200mb on an iPhone. On Android? I've never been below 800mb for months, and I'd have to try hard to stay low.

I dual carry an iPhone and Nexus 4. It's a pretty noticeable difference. I've carried many other Android phones also like the SGS2, Nexus S, Nexus One, Motorola Droid. None have had spectacular battery.

As for the wakelock stuff, I've tried custom kernels that got rid of wakelocks. It's not that much better.

Go read the iPhone review where they plot power usage in idle and while the phone is active against other phones out there. The iPhone's idle power consumption is ridiculously low. Like half of the competition.

I'm not saying that this means Android is bad or whatever. Google's going for a different beast. You have all your information at your hands any time. Weather widgets constantly refreshing, facebook timelines updating on widgets, news flashing across your homepage, reading forums on a widget, Google Now prompting you left and right based on your location. Yeah. These things are great. I love it, but it's not like they don't use battery. They dramatically change battery use, so unless you keep your Android phone plain as hell with no apps, there's no way you can idle better than an iPhone.
You are only talking about web browsing aren't you? Cause I really don't how you can say the iphone 5 has longer battery life when It doesn't lead any chart other than Browsing time. Video playback, Wifi, talktime are all middle of the park.

Looking at tablets, the Nexus 10 has a much smaller battery than the iPad and larger higher res display, but gets a little less battery life. The Nexus 7 has the same battery size as the ipad mini, with a smaller higher res display, with a much more powerful SOC and gets similar battery life.

So you are taking about web browsing, then sure the iPhone 5 does great, but with everything else, it's nothing special.

Almost every phone has gotten better battery life with JB than ICS. Well maybe android has always ramped up the CPU, just not as quickly as JB does. You also don't know how the governor in iOS or WP works.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_gala...view-823p6.php
http://blog.gsmarena.com/lg-optimus-...esults-inside/
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:48 PM   #31
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Project butter ramps CPU to 1ghz upon ANY touch event. Two cores chugging at 1ghz each. Why? To combat lag. Effectively, Google just made the CPU more responsive. It's like if you just used the performance governor to begin with.

Ok, then there's the fact that butter makes sure the UI is a dedicated thread that stays running at full speed.

How is this not using more power? The CPU is more responsive, blah blah. Yeah there's things like vsync, but the fundamental issue here is the lack of GPU rendering requiring loads of CPU power being thrown at it. Project butter makes sure the CPU is tasked consistently to maintain 60 fps and also it makes sure the CPU is more responsive so that there aren't slowdowns.

Look, I appreciate lag-free, but this isn't a complete solution. It may be a limitation of Android due to the vast amounts of hardware platforms out there, or whatever excuse there is, but it's not as efficient as say iOS or Windows Phone.

Then there's apps. Lots of apps sync. All apps other than the official Twitter app will pull data on a regular basis. The Facebook app pulls data. In fact Twitter refuses to give you push notifications unless you sync data at an interval. Combine that with your weather widgets, google reader, etc. all pulling data at fixed intervals, it's pretty clear data is used a lot.

In general, I find that it's pretty easy for an Android phone to gobble up data. On an iPhone unless you're actively using apps, data use is far more limited in idle conditions. It's for this reason I could get away with the 200mb plan and see friends getting away on 200mb on an iPhone. On Android? I've never been below 800mb for months, and I'd have to try hard to stay low.

I dual carry an iPhone and Nexus 4. It's a pretty noticeable difference. I've carried many other Android phones also like the SGS2, Nexus S, Nexus One, Motorola Droid. None have had spectacular battery.

As for the wakelock stuff, I've tried custom kernels that got rid of wakelocks. It's not that much better.

Go read the iPhone review where they plot power usage in idle and while the phone is active against other phones out there. The iPhone's idle power consumption is ridiculously low. Like half of the competition.

I'm not saying that this means Android is bad or whatever. Google's going for a different beast. You have all your information at your hands any time. Weather widgets constantly refreshing, facebook timelines updating on widgets, news flashing across your homepage, reading forums on a widget, Google Now prompting you left and right based on your location. Yeah. These things are great. I love it, but it's not like they don't use battery. They dramatically change battery use, so unless you keep your Android phone plain as hell with no apps, there's no way you can idle better than an iPhone.
"fundamental issue here is the lack of GPU rendering" Why do you keep spreading this BS when android has GPU acceleration? http://www.extremetech.com/computing...ion-on-android
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:55 PM   #32
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HTC is responsible for, and continuing, the myth that Android has poor battery life.
Not really. The One X gets pretty amazing battery life. Go look at the AT review for the Galaxy S III. It loses to the One X in every category, even though it has a bigger battery. There was definitely a time when their phones all had generally terrible battery life, but they've shown that they're more than capable of making phones with good battery life.
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:56 PM   #33
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I went from the HTC Thunderbolt to a GS3, and the former was never acceptable. It almost pushed me to iPhone forever. The GS3 is ok, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same paragraph as the Tbolt..

I like the iPhone and the Galaxy series, but won't touch anything else, especially Motorola.

I picked the GS3 over the iPhone5 because I heard the extended battery is coming out this year from Samsung. 3000mah, should be more than enough. I get acceptable battery life right now.

GS3 + extended battery IMO is hands down superior to the Maxx. Screw that thing.
iPhone5 still has its merits though, I prefer it's size and how streamlined everything is about iPhones.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:18 PM   #34
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GS3 feels like a cheap piece of junk. Maxx HD actually feels like a real piece of hardware and I don't have to wait and hope a slim extended battery comes out.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:33 PM   #35
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A real piece of hardware has been redefined as a brick.
By your standards, the HTC Thunderbolt makes the Maxx HD look like a cheap piece of junk. I'll trade you even up.

I don't think iPhone5 or GS3 owners are envious of your Motorola. If I wanted the non-replacable battery 'feature', I'd bought the iPhone.
If you wanted Motorola that's your own problem, no one else is looking back.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:58 PM   #36
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I have bone stock gs3 and get almost 6 hours on screen time with the stock battery and push on etc.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:07 PM   #37
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"fundamental issue here is the lack of GPU rendering" Why do you keep spreading this BS when android has GPU acceleration? http://www.extremetech.com/computing...ion-on-android
He spreads this FUD and anytime he gets called out on it, he is mysteriously absent.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:47 PM   #38
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I have bone stock gs3 and get almost 6 hours on screen time with the stock battery and push on etc.
That's about what I get. Nothing to complain about. I use an enterprise email application called Touchdown using ActiveSync push during certain hours of the day.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:58 PM   #39
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That's about what I get. Nothing to complain about. I use an enterprise email application called Touchdown using ActiveSync push during certain hours of the day.
I get just over a full day of use also and im a power user.project butter and jelly bean got me a whole 2 more hours of onscreen time so I font know what the heck delirious is talking about.

On a custom kernal people are getting 7 hours also
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:28 AM   #40
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It should be noted that the RAZR MAXX HD gets great battery life only because it has a 3300 mAh battery. The iPhone 5 has a 1440 mAh battery, and still gets decent battery life by most objective measures (although not as good as the RAZR MAXX HD for obvious reasons).

As I've said before, Android should really try to get itself sorted out with regards to battery life issues, instead of just cramming in larger screens with quad-core CPUs. Motorola recognizes there is an issue, but not being able to control the OS, they've taken the brute force solution of cramming in ginormous batteries as well. At least it's a start though, since some other companies, like Google itself with the Nexus line, continue to just keep their heads in the sand about battery life.
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I like Motorola's solution too, but it's an interim solution to an Android problem beyond Motorola's control.

Why doesn't Apple do the same? Cuz they don't have to. Their battery life on the iPhone 5 is (by objective measures) amongst the best for smartphones (although not THE best, which is the MAXX).

It's sort of the same reason they haven't bothered with a quad-core CPU yet, or 2 GB RAM. They just don't need to do that and incur extra costs to brute force deal with issues that should be addressed through software optimization.
Apple solves the battery issues by using tiny screens. Motorola solves theirs by using humongous batteries.
Neither is much of a difference.

People always try to quote "/WhR" usage as a way to discredit Motorola, but no one ever quotes "/inch usage" or normalizes those "/WhR" results based on pixels or screen size. Why?

Until Apple releases a 4.7" iPhone, or the Android manufacturers release a 4" Android phone that isn't a PoS or has shitty specs, there will be no way to directly compare battery life on iOS vs Android.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:36 AM   #41
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Project butter ramps CPU to 1ghz upon ANY touch event. Two cores chugging at 1ghz each. Why? To combat lag. Effectively, Google just made the CPU more responsive. It's like if you just used the performance governor to begin with.

Ok, then there's the fact that butter makes sure the UI is a dedicated thread that stays running at full speed.

How is this not using more power? The CPU is more responsive, blah blah. Yeah there's things like vsync, but the fundamental issue here is the lack of GPU rendering requiring loads of CPU power being thrown at it. Project butter makes sure the CPU is tasked consistently to maintain 60 fps and also it makes sure the CPU is more responsive so that there aren't slowdowns.


Look, I appreciate lag-free, but this isn't a complete solution. It may be a limitation of Android due to the vast amounts of hardware platforms out there, or whatever excuse there is, but it's not as efficient as say iOS or Windows Phone.

Then there's apps. Lots of apps sync. All apps other than the official Twitter app will pull data on a regular basis. The Facebook app pulls data. In fact Twitter refuses to give you push notifications unless you sync data at an interval. Combine that with your weather widgets, google reader, etc. all pulling data at fixed intervals, it's pretty clear data is used a lot.

In general, I find that it's pretty easy for an Android phone to gobble up data. On an iPhone unless you're actively using apps, data use is far more limited in idle conditions. It's for this reason I could get away with the 200mb plan and see friends getting away on 200mb on an iPhone. On Android? I've never been below 800mb for months, and I'd have to try hard to stay low.

I dual carry an iPhone and Nexus 4. It's a pretty noticeable difference. I've carried many other Android phones also like the SGS2, Nexus S, Nexus One, Motorola Droid. None have had spectacular battery.

As for the wakelock stuff, I've tried custom kernels that got rid of wakelocks. It's not that much better.

Go read the iPhone review where they plot power usage in idle and while the phone is active against other phones out there. The iPhone's idle power consumption is ridiculously low. Like half of the competition.

I'm not saying that this means Android is bad or whatever. Google's going for a different beast. You have all your information at your hands any time. Weather widgets constantly refreshing, facebook timelines updating on widgets, news flashing across your homepage, reading forums on a widget, Google Now prompting you left and right based on your location. Yeah. These things are great. I love it, but it's not like they don't use battery. They dramatically change battery use, so unless you keep your Android phone plain as hell with no apps, there's no way you can idle better than an iPhone.
If you can't link us credible reviews showing massive difference in battery life between JellyBean and ICS on a Galaxy Nexus(or any other phone really), then I'd say that you're talking out your ass regarding Project Butter, Android GPU rendering, and almost everything else in that post.

You really think the Android geeks on XDA wouldn't have noticed a massive difference in battery life by now between JellyBean and ICS if Project Butter was as shitty implementation as you claim it to be? Really?
Show us battery performance stats on ICS vs. JellyBean(both with Google Now enabled and disabled) on a Galaxy Nexus. That would determine if Project Butter is as shitty implementation as you describe it to be.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:45 AM   #42
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Apple solves the battery issues by using tiny screens. Motorola solves theirs by using humongous batteries.
Neither is much of a difference.

People always try to quote "/WhR" usage as a way to discredit Motorola, but no one ever quotes "/inch usage" or normalizes those "/WhR" results based on pixels or screen size. Why?

Until Apple releases a 4.7" iPhone, or the Android manufacturers release a 4" Android phone that isn't a PoS or has shitty specs, there will be no way to directly compare battery life on iOS vs Android.
Who is discrediting Motorola? I'm certainly not. In fact I commended them for actually trying to do something about it. I'm just saying they've decided to take a brute force approach because they have to, since they don't write the OS.

And yes you can compare battery life. Of course a 4.8" screen should use more power but that's not very helpful if the battery life is only 2/3rds as long as an iPhone 5, because the OS is not properly optimized for battery life and the company is not Motorola and decided not to oversize the battery to compensate.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:11 AM   #43
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Who is discrediting Motorola? I'm certainly not. In fact I commended them for actually trying to do something about it. I'm just saying they've decided to take a brute force approach because they have to, since they don't write the OS.

And yes you can compare battery life. Of course a 4.8" screen should use more power but that's not very helpful if the battery life is only 2/3rds as long as an iPhone 5, because the OS is not properly optimized for battery life and the company is not Motorola and decided not to oversize the battery to compensate.
I didn't say that you personally were. I'm only talking "generally" about all those that quote and use "hours/WhR" ratings like it's some kind of gospel.

How do you know that the OS is not optimized for battery life?
Again, until Apple makes 4.7" or 5" iPhones or the Android manufacturers make a 4" Android phone that isn't a PoS, none of these battery life figures can be compared.
My screen alone accounts for anywhere between 50-80% of my battery use on both my Nexus 7 and Galaxy S II. For every single device I've ever used and tested, the screen consumes more battery than everything else combined, including the OS and apps.

If Android OS was really that inefficient or not properly optimized, I would be seeing double digit percentages listed under "Android OS" in the battery statistics.
Lets normalize those results "hour/WhR" results to "pixels per hour/WhR" for each OS and see how far we get.
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Old 01-24-2013, 01:56 AM   #44
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FWIW, the iPad mini has a much larger screen than the Nexus 7 but a similarly sized battery, only very slightly larger. However, the iPad mini lasts much, much longer for web surfing.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/ipad-mini-...et-competition

One could argue that the Nexus 7 has a much faster CPU, but that would be missing the point, with the point being that Google seems to be less ambitious with its battery life targets, as is evidenced by their Nexus lines. Personally I think the reason for this is inferior battery life optimization coupled with a desire to reign in cost for the Nexus line. Motorola compensates for the relative lack of OS battery optimization by including MUCH larger batteries.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:27 AM   #45
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FWIW, the iPad mini has a much larger screen than the Nexus 7 but a similarly sized battery, only very slightly larger. However, the iPad mini lasts much, much longer for web surfing.

http://blog.laptopmag.com/ipad-mini-...et-competition

One could argue that the Nexus 7 has a much faster CPU, but that would be missing the point, with the point being that Google seems to be less ambitious with its battery life targets, as is evidenced by their Nexus lines. Personally I think the reason for this is inferior battery life optimization coupled with a desire to reign in cost for the Nexus line. Motorola compensates for the relative lack of OS battery optimization by including MUCH larger batteries.
And how many total pixels is the iPad mini pushing compared to the Nexus 7?
I'm sure Google could release a lower resolution Nexus with the same similarly sized battery and display that has much better battery life than the current Nexus 7. It doesn't mean that they should, however.
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:47 AM   #46
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I think Android would do well to alert the user to apps which are excessively keeping the device from sleeping. The current battery monitor isn't really enough. It's too easy to install an app which trashes battery life.
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Old 01-24-2013, 03:12 AM   #47
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Another non-issue to give exaggeration trolls something to do.

My SGS3 gets great battery life, and best of all, I can swap the battery whenever I need it to have INFINITE battery life. Many's the time when my wife's iPhone 4 is tethered somewhere charging and my SGS3 is (as always) ready to roll. So called 'great battery life' means squat dick when the phone is tethered useless somewhere to a charger.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:37 AM   #48
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And how many total pixels is the iPad mini pushing compared to the Nexus 7?
I'm sure Google could release a lower resolution Nexus with the same similarly sized battery and display that has much better battery life than the current Nexus 7. It doesn't mean that they should, however.
I don't care "what if" but "what is".

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Another non-issue to give exaggeration trolls something to do.

My SGS3 gets great battery life, and best of all, I can swap the battery whenever I need it to have INFINITE battery life. Many's the time when my wife's iPhone 4 is tethered somewhere charging and my SGS3 is (as always) ready to roll. So called 'great battery life' means squat dick when the phone is tethered useless somewhere to a charger.
Errr... The iPhone 4 has pretty mediocre battery life. Nobody's denying that. However, the iPhone 4 came out in 2010.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:41 AM   #49
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A real piece of hardware has been redefined as a brick.
By your standards, the HTC Thunderbolt makes the Maxx HD look like a cheap piece of junk. I'll trade you even up.

I don't think iPhone5 or GS3 owners are envious of your Motorola. If I wanted the non-replacable battery 'feature', I'd bought the iPhone.
If you wanted Motorola that's your own problem, no one else is looking back.
Ok buddy, don't know why you're so butthurt about it. Facts are the Maxx HD has build quality that rivals any smartphone on the market and better battery life than any smartphone on the market including the iPhone. These are substantiated by any of the reviews you will find.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:34 AM   #50
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I don't care "what if" but "what is".


Errr... The iPhone 4 has pretty mediocre battery life. Nobody's denying that. However, the iPhone 4 came out in 2010.
If you're not willing to scientifically isolate out screens, pixels, battery ratings, and other things from the conclusion, then you can't assume Android OS is inefficient in Battery life compared to iOS then in any objective kind of way.
You can make the conclusion that the iPad mini has better battery life than the Nexus 7 during web browsing however you can't claim that Android OS in inefficient without isolating the remaining things.
If you only care about "what is" and not "what if" then that means iOS is very inefficient on battery life compared to Android if you're comparing the Razr Maxx to any other iOS device.
When you're willing to eliminate things like humongous batteries, humongous screens, and humongous resolutions from the equation, let us know.

Now you can say...Yes, Android manufacturers are idiots for cramming 1080p on 5" screens with 2000mah non-removable batteries.
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