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Old 12-27-2012, 07:30 PM   #1
goobernoodles
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Default Logitech G500 Middle Mouse Button (Rant)

My trusty MX518 I had replaced the cable on several times started flaking out a few weeks ago. Holding down left mouse didn't result in a constant signal so dragging, spraying, anything that required holding down left mouse was a nightmare. Did a bit of research and settled on the G500 as a replacement.

Ugh.

The middle mouse button is deal breakingly bad. It's impossible to effectively click the middle mouse button quickly. Not only does it feel cheaper than the mx518 scroller/button, but they added the ability to scroll left and right with the button which leads to this crap. I like to tap my middle mouse button many times repeatedly for opening 10-15 tabs at a time, closing them, not to mention doing what this mouse was fucking designed for - GAMING.

Anyway, does anyone have a G400 they can comment on? I think I'm going to go return this thing.

/rant
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Old 12-28-2012, 06:36 AM   #2
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G500 is has acceleration problems so you are dodging a bullet by Dr placing it. The g400 is at least a flawless sensor and I haven't seen any complaints about the middle mouse button so far.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:16 PM   #3
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Logitech middle mouse buttons have all recently been crap, I disable side scrolling on my g9x when using Pro/E because I can't middle click without accidentally scrolling.
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Old 12-28-2012, 07:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightCandle View Post
G500 is has acceleration problems so you are dodging a bullet by Dr placing it. The g400 is at least a flawless sensor and I haven't seen any complaints about the middle mouse button so far.
What are these acceleration problems you speak of I would like to know more.
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Old 12-28-2012, 11:28 PM   #5
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I got a G400 for Christmas. Not bad for a mouse that is on sale at Best Buy for $30. Most opinions online are that that G400 is at least the equal of the G500. I am enjoying mine so far, but I came from a Intellimouse Explorer 3.0 and not a G500. I have used a G500 at a friend's house though and didn't like it.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
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What are these acceleration problems you speak of I would like to know more.
Google G500 laser sensor acceleration then. There is no shortage of reading available on the subject.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:08 AM   #7
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What are these acceleration problems you speak of I would like to know more.
With a mouse with no acceleration, if you move the mouse a certain distance slowly or quickly it doesn't matter, only the distance traveled matters. Many gamers like this because in an RTS, certain points on the screen such as the minimap will always be at around the same spot on your mousepad. In FPS games, mice with no acceleration always require the same amount of distance to do a 180 turn regardless of speed.

With a mouse with acceleration, moving the mouse slowly one inch right then moving it quickly back one inch left will result in the cursor ending up well left of where it started. The effective DPI of the mouse increases the faster the mouse is moving. As you could imagine, in RTS games, mice with acceleration are more likely to need to be lifted off the pad. In FPS games, flick aiming can be difficult as the quick mouse movement makes the acceleration kick in.

Some mice also have negative acceleration, which means when you flick aim, the movement slows down. This is better than the first generation of optical mice where the sensor went wild and you found yourself staring at the sky if you moved the mouse too fast. However, negative acceleration is also obviously worse than no acceleration if the mouse can keep tracking properly.

Windows has built in acceleration that is largely defeated by unchecking the ""enhance pointer precision" box in mouse settings.

Another thing some mice (such as the MX 518) do is called prediction. This is when the mouse artificially straightens slightly curved lines for you. As you can imagine, this can destroy your aim. Test this my trying to make straight horizontal and verticle lines in paint. If the lines are amazingly straight down to the pixel or the circles look light squares with rounded corners then the mouse has prediction.
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Old 12-29-2012, 05:31 AM   #8
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Most mice are horribly flawed, including the grand majority of gaming mice. I can't believe they put out mice with prediction, jitter and acceleration for gamers but they do. What I find most astonishing is how few mice are actually flawless considering we had the technology back in 2000. The logitech g400 is part of small group of flawless mice.

But most users don't care, they can't use a mouse very well anyway. No reviewers currently test the mice for flaws either. I keep lobbying Anandtech to do it in the comments for a mouse but they aren't listening. Seems to me given subjective or objective testing anand would normally choose objective, but it seems not for mice.

So good on the op, the g400 is an excellent choice.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:30 AM   #9
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I found this thread very interesting. Never knew about these issues. I just happen to have ordered a G400 a couple of days ago. Good to know that it's such a good gaming mouse
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:47 AM   #10
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I finally got around to buying a G400 last week and the difference is night and day. Perfection.

The G400 is the true replacement to the MX518 whereas the G500 is just a gimmicky money grab aimed at teenagers. Too bad I fell for it. Haha
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:31 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightCandle View Post
Most mice are horribly flawed, including the grand majority of gaming mice. I can't believe they put out mice with prediction, jitter and acceleration for gamers but they do. What I find most astonishing is how few mice are actually flawless considering we had the technology back in 2000. The logitech g400 is part of small group of flawless mice.

But most users don't care, they can't use a mouse very well anyway. No reviewers currently test the mice for flaws either. I keep lobbying Anandtech to do it in the comments for a mouse but they aren't listening. Seems to me given subjective or objective testing anand would normally choose objective, but it seems not for mice.

So good on the op, the g400 is an excellent choice.
And finding the quality sensor information is impossible.
I hadn't done so with past mice, and I'll make sure to try and only get the ones with the most praise from the sensor folks.

With that said - know anything about the G700? (that's the mouse I currently have)
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:59 AM   #12
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I'm really dissapointed with the direction mice have gone over the past few years.

The idea of having the best laser sensor in a simple rugged mouse without unneeded features/buttons seems to be lost on the manufacturers. I've only ever wanted 2 buttons + wheel, anything more just gets in the way.
I've purchased dozens of $40+ mice over the years and havn't truly been as happy with them as the old logitech ball mice when it comes to shape and simplicity.
I owned the G500, MX518, and G7 also, but didn't care for them based on the above reasons, plus G7 being wireless required changing the battery twice a day.

I guess they make all the mice for WoW players anymore :/

Sorry for the thread crash
I just purchased
This mouse(should get it tomarrow) after my razer copperhead (actually liked that mouse after removing the side buttons) broke (wheel roller broke off). I've also had 2 other razer mice and a keyboard from them break on me ... quality isn't what it used to be in mice.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:31 AM   #13
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Soulkeeper, the best I've found to fit your requirement of a quality sensor in a simple shell are the offerings of Zowie Gear. Their products are aimed to professional gamers. I own Zowie EC1 Evo, and Zowie AM is even simpler (ambidextrous).

It has two side buttons but they're well placed and don't get in the way. No software to worry about, all DPI and refresh rate adjustments are in the hardware.

It's not perfect though. One of the side buttons has become unresponsive over about 6 months of use so I'm going to RMA it. The scroll can be squeaky and a bit flimsy but you get used to it. The surface coating is quite good but I decided that adding transparent adhesive tape on the sides improved the grip (I use fingertip grip).
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:15 AM   #14
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It's not perfect though. One of the side buttons has become unresponsive over about 6 months of use so I'm going to RMA it. The scroll can be squeaky and a bit flimsy but you get used to it. The surface coating is quite good but I decided that adding transparent adhesive tape on the sides improved the grip (I use fingertip grip).
Mine hasn't shown the unresponsive button yet but I do have a squeaky scroll and that first appeared just a few weeks after getting it.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:53 AM   #15
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Never had any issues with the middle mouse button, it's very easy to press without triggering the scroll buttons. I imagine you got used to having your finger off center from your old mouse?
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Old 01-23-2013, 05:06 PM   #16
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Never had any issues with the middle mouse button, it's very easy to press without triggering the scroll buttons. I imagine you got used to having your finger off center from your old mouse?
Not at all. The feel of the middle mouse button is really hard to describe without having a G400 or MX518 handy to compare. Sure I can click the middle mouse on the G500, but it has phenomenally bad feel to it.

Best way I can describe the difference between the two is:

G400/MX518 = ON/OFF
G500 = UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT/SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN
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Old 01-23-2013, 06:25 PM   #17
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On my last razer copperhead the right switch started dying and I got tired of hitting it 3x so I also got g500 2 weeks back.
Had a 510 and 518 which lasted years.
On the razer the you you can feel or sense the switches before you press them fully.
I cant feel the switches on g500 either the travel is to short or the switches are too stiff or both.
Now the logitechs last for ever but it is far from good gaming mouse.
I think i will go back to razer or any mouse that iI can feel the main switches.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
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What are these acceleration problems you speak of I would like to know more.
I have no idea what they are on about. I have a G500 and play CS:S and CS:GO a lot and have zero problem with aim.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:28 AM   #19
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On my last razer copperhead the right switch started dying and I got tired of hitting it 3x so I also got g500 2 weeks back.
Had a 510 and 518 which lasted years.
On the razer the you you can feel or sense the switches before you press them fully.
I cant feel the switches on g500 either the travel is to short or the switches are too stiff or both.
Now the logitechs last for ever but it is far from good gaming mouse.
I think i will go back to razer or any mouse that iI can feel the main switches.
I've had to open up my copperhead and resolder new switches on twice now (luckily the cheapo $5 mice have the same switches).
also the plastic that touches the switches wore down and I had to glue a thin layer of plastic on to make the contact.
Also be carefull not to press the wheel too hard it's only a switch on one side so the pressure on the left side is greater and it'll snap off. Had to super glue that back together too. The razer abyssus is even cheaper, the wheel snaps off after a few days if you use it for forward movement in games like I do (I broke two abyssus mice this way).
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:52 AM   #20
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Quote:
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I have no idea what they are on about. I have a G500 and play CS:S and CS:GO a lot and have zero problem with aim.
I use to play Source and switched over to GO about 3 months ago.

In the 2+ years i've had my G500 I didn't notice any issues also.

The only problem I have now is my left click sticks sometimes but I think that is due to just heavy usage.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:59 AM   #21
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Not at all. The feel of the middle mouse button is really hard to describe without having a G400 or MX518 handy to compare. Sure I can click the middle mouse on the G500, but it has phenomenally bad feel to it.

Best way I can describe the difference between the two is:

G400/MX518 = ON/OFF
G500 = UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT/SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN
I still have an MX510 to compare, and honestly the G500 is FAR more on / off than it ever was. The other Logitech mice I've tried have very soft and squishy middle button pressure, while the G500's is a stiff and ridged *pop* on and off. Doesn't seem much like were describing the same mouse.
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Old 01-24-2013, 12:24 PM   #22
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Quote:
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I still have an MX510 to compare, and honestly the G500 is FAR more on / off than it ever was. The other Logitech mice I've tried have very soft and squishy middle button pressure, while the G500's is a stiff and ridged *pop* on and off. Doesn't seem much like were describing the same mouse.
I've got two G500's. In terms of button pressing, they feel like two different mice. That could be what's going on here.

Logitech doesn't have quite the same QC that it used to have.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
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I've got two G500's. In terms of button pressing, they feel like two different mice. That could be what's going on here.

Logitech doesn't have quite the same QC that it used to have.
That certainly could be it, guess it's something I'll keep in mind if I ever needed to get another one.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:47 AM   #24
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Quote:
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I've had to open up my copperhead and resolder new switches on twice now (luckily the cheapo $5 mice have the same switches).
also the plastic that touches the switches wore down and I had to glue a thin layer of plastic on to make the contact.
Also be carefull not to press the wheel too hard it's only a switch on one side so the pressure on the left side is greater and it'll snap off. Had to super glue that back together too. The razer abyssus is even cheaper, the wheel snaps off after a few days if you use it for forward movement in games like I do (I broke two abyssus mice this way).
Thanks for the info
On timmers I must have replaced hundreds of mircos over the years.
The switch doesnt feel bad when pushed with a pen.
I will try to build up the plastic that touches the switches with hot glue.
The switch usally works for a short time after bending the plastic.
This is the last of 3 razers I had.
The egg has RAZER DeathAdder for $39. if need be.
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Old 01-25-2013, 11:12 AM   #25
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I just tried a dell uvdel1 optical mouse. Apparently it's a relabeled logitech.
After 2 days I couldn't stand the skipping and horrible tracking. Even trying to min/max a window was a task at times.

Just got this HP GW405AT yesterday.
I like this HP mouse's tracking, very nice.
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