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Old 01-15-2013, 09:01 PM   #26
zerogear
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This phone is lust worthy, it also has Bravia engine 2 on it.
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Old 01-15-2013, 09:49 PM   #27
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:48 PM   #28
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Yes, why wouldn't I? If Toyota introduced a new car with 400hp for $15K I would call it a budget car, particularly considering the crank windows, no leather, no smart integration at all etc. The DNA is a budget phone by virtue of everything outside of its' SoC and screen. Put a bunch of really low end crap in the same package as a decent screen and SoC, and it's still really low end crap with a couple nice features. Not to mention, it is HTC, they only make budget phones no matter what they try to position them at as of late. How long was it after launch the One series was under $1 with contract? If you can only sell the device in the budget segment, then that is the segment it belongs in.



And Samsung, compared to Sony? Absolutely, it isn't even close. The Z has superior build quality to the ZL. The fashion above everything else may disagree, but it is reality. Because you like the way something looks or feels in your hand doesn't mean it has decent build quality.
I'm kinda speechless. Samsung is meh, but Apple. Really? Anyway, it's not worth arguing with you about.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:07 AM   #29
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I'm kinda speechless. Samsung is meh, but Apple. Really? Anyway, it's not worth arguing with you about.
I agree, this guy is just trolling. All you can do is laugh.
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Old 01-16-2013, 11:15 AM   #30
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:58 PM   #31
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I could provide hundreds of links, but a quick couple-

http://gizmodo.com/5963445/the-iphon...o-months-later
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B6A20SdjHI

25% failure rate, an improvement-

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/i..._6_22_2010.pdf

That is worse then the 360-

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/S...ility_0809.pdf

Slap high fives, praise Apple hallelujah and all that.

http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/S...Study_1010.pdf

I could keep going and going. If you don't want to have reality pointed out, go back in the RDF sub forum and sing praise Jobs all day. Apple's build quality is fairly poor, HTC is utter garbage if it makes you feel better.
http://www.squaretrade.com/htm/pdf/S...Study_1010.pdf

Quote:
Overall, the iPhone is still a very well constructed device, with a non-accident malfunction rate much lower than most other consumer electronics. In SquareTrade’s previous study comparing smart phone reliability from November 2008, we found iPhones to be far more reliable than Blackberrys and Palm Treos. We will be updating this report soon,
and we’ll have data on the latest Android phone models. It may yet be seen that even with the double glass, the iPhone has an overall failure rate that is still better than the competition.
. . .

Anyway, sweet phone. Don't fuck up the software Sony!
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Old 01-16-2013, 10:17 PM   #32
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Because it's a Sony phone.....
1.) In Japan, it will likely be released 6+ months later than the rest of the competition...like all other Sony phones.
2.) It likely won't come to USA...If it did, it won't be in the current form. US carriers would likely strip it naked because unlike Samsung and Apple, Sony doesn't have any clout.
3.) Sony will take it's sweet time with Android OS updates. They're just as bad as LG in updating Android software. Almost everyone already has JellyBean on their flagship devices....Samsung since September, with HTC and Motorola about a month or two after that. What is Sony's schedule for JellyBean on their numerous phones? February-March 2013, or in the case of some of their other handsets...Never.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:18 AM   #33
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:41 AM   #34
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Moto is *far* worse then what you are implying, I bought one of their top of the line handsets in '11 and got *ZERO* version updates- ever. I bought it on launch day, was promised many things- lied to across the board. I may not hold that against them too much but it was the second Android device in a row I bought from Motorola when new that *NEVER* got a single update- again, promised to get updated numerous times and never saw any of them.

Samsung, only their most recent phones get timely upgrades, the S2 hasn't gotten JB yet, despite selling ~30 million units. HTC is comparable to Samsung, flagship phones get it eventually, everything else maybe, some day.

Not saying Sony is stellar in this regard, but unless you are buying a Nexus device they are all just differing degrees of suckage
If you're referring to their Droid X2 or Droid 3, those weren't anywhere near top of the line.

Sony is far worse. There are lots of Sony "top of the line"(for Sony that is) phones released in 2011 that didn't even get ICS or any updates period.

I don't care how many unit a phone sells. If it was released in 2011(especially if it was a top of the line model), it should get JellyBean.
Point to me the phones from Sony released in 2011 that have already received a JellyBean update? I rest my case.
Galaxy S II(a phone that was released April 2011) should receive it's Jelly Bean update by February.
With Samsung, you know for a fact which phones are receiving updates for 2 years...Galaxy S series and Galaxy Note series. With Sony or LG, everything else is a hit or miss.

That is my point...Sony and LG are the worst of Android manufacturers in providing updates, with Motorola closely following behind. All the manufacturers suck to a certain degree compared to a Nexus, but Sony and LG by far suck worse than the others.
Google owns Motorola now and I expect Motorola to be good with updates going forward...But I still wouldn't hold my breath for them unless it's a Nexus device. Not into their "locked bootloader" crap.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:21 AM   #35
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updates
Your entire post focuses on slow, or the lack of, updates. I've owned phones previously that with each incremental update the phone became slower and slower until it was almost useless (iphone 3G).

I'd much rather focus on a phone that has a platform that is viable and doesn't need such hefty updates, and on my Galaxy Nexus I've been using the same iteration of Android OS since I got it (4.2 or whatever has not been pushed over the air).

I appreciate BenSkywalker's posts in that he's addressing a number of user concerns - a rugged phone that is still sleek, with a high quality display, a good OS with access to a varied marketplace. Regarding Sony and their releases, I don't know many phones that are available in Germany and not the USA, but I'd say that speaks to specific carrier policies in the USA if that is the case and not whether or not this is an interesting phone.

Engadget gave the Xperia Z 'best in show' at CES, stating:

What's a modern trade show without at least a couple handset launches? Unfortunately, Mobile World Congress trumps CES for cell launches, but that doesn't mean this show was without some magic. The Sony Xperia Z's 5-inch 1080p display and the new Exmor RS sensor for HDR video capture plus the fact that it is waterproof helped it shine in our opinion. The overall look and feel of the device is head and shoulders above anything else we've seen from Sony; they've stepped from wobbly plastics to a premium feel. Carrier specifics and exact launch date are still being hashed out but look for the Sony Xperia Z this year sometime in Q1.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:51 AM   #36
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Because it's a Sony phone.....
1.) In Japan, it will likely be released 6+ months later than the rest of the competition...like all other Sony phones.
2.) It likely won't come to USA...If it did, it won't be in the current form. US carriers would likely strip it naked because unlike Samsung and Apple, Sony doesn't have any clout.
3.) Sony will take it's sweet time with Android OS updates. They're just as bad as LG in updating Android software. Almost everyone already has JellyBean on their flagship devices....Samsung since September, with HTC and Motorola about a month or two after that. What is Sony's schedule for JellyBean on their numerous phones? February-March 2013, or in the case of some of their other handsets...Never.
I'm a cell junkie.

I've owned everyphone under the moon in the last 2 years.

I think Motorola is behind Sony with updates. I've had a handful of less than 1 year old Motorola phones still on Gingerbread. (Very capable phones, dual cores, etc)

I agree about LG and Motorola lagging behind, but I think Sony edges them out. Sony has updated most of there phones to ICS now, where Motorola still has a ton of capable phones on GB. (Sony has single core phones on 4.0.4 running smooth like the Xperia Ray for example)

HTC and Samsung are the best at updating right now. None are great.

I've got a Razr V XT885 and One S right now, but the XT885 is for sale for my next toy to mess with. By the way, its a phone that's was released in July and is still on ICS with no JB update announced yet for it from Motorola, even though its there 2nd best handset right now with Dual Core / 1GB ram.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:39 PM   #37
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I'm a cell junkie.

I've owned everyphone under the moon in the last 2 years.

I think Motorola is behind Sony with updates. I've had a handful of less than 1 year old Motorola phones still on Gingerbread. (Very capable phones, dual cores, etc)

I agree about LG and Motorola lagging behind, but I think Sony edges them out. Sony has updated most of there phones to ICS now, where Motorola still has a ton of capable phones on GB. (Sony has single core phones on 4.0.4 running smooth like the Xperia Ray for example)

HTC and Samsung are the best at updating right now. None are great.

I've got a Razr V XT885 and One S right now, but the XT885 is for sale for my next toy to mess with. By the way, its a phone that's was released in July and is still on ICS with no JB update announced yet for it from Motorola, even though its there 2nd best handset right now with Dual Core / 1GB ram.
How many Sony phones have received JellyBean?

http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...4&postcount=31
So Sony upgrades their PoS devices to JellyBean while leaving their high-end signature devices to piss in the wind.
I would like you to respond to the last few paragraphs of my linked post...In case you miss it or decide not to click the link, I will quote it.
Quote:
Xperia J, which has one of the crappiest Qualcomm chipset SoC known to man of all the Xperia lines released in 2011 will get JellyBean, but their 2011 flagship lines will not?

All Sony's Xperia lines from 2011 either have Qualcomm MSM8255(mid-range) and MSM8260(high-end) Snapdragon which are paired with Adreno 205(mid-range) and Adreno 225(high-range) GPU. They are in the SnapDragon S2(mid-range) and S3(high-range) family and won't see any update to JellyBean.

The Xperia J, which uses an SoC that is 3+ years old and has first generation Qualcomm MSM7227A Snapdragon S1, Adreno 200 GPU will see a JellyBean update?
This will be akin to Samsung providing KLP for the Galaxy S3 Mini, but not their flagship Galaxy S3 and S2 phones. Or HTC providing KLP to the Desire X and not their One X or Sensation flagship devices.
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Old 01-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #38
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Your entire post focuses on slow, or the lack of, updates. I've owned phones previously that with each incremental update the phone became slower and slower until it was almost useless (iphone 3G).

I'd much rather focus on a phone that has a platform that is viable and doesn't need such hefty updates, and on my Galaxy Nexus I've been using the same iteration of Android OS since I got it (4.2 or whatever has not been pushed over the air).

I appreciate BenSkywalker's posts in that he's addressing a number of user concerns - a rugged phone that is still sleek, with a high quality display, a good OS with access to a varied marketplace. Regarding Sony and their releases, I don't know many phones that are available in Germany and not the USA, but I'd say that speaks to specific carrier policies in the USA if that is the case and not whether or not this is an interesting phone.

Engadget gave the Xperia Z 'best in show' at CES, stating:

What's a modern trade show without at least a couple handset launches? Unfortunately, Mobile World Congress trumps CES for cell launches, but that doesn't mean this show was without some magic. The Sony Xperia Z's 5-inch 1080p display and the new Exmor RS sensor for HDR video capture plus the fact that it is waterproof helped it shine in our opinion. The overall look and feel of the device is head and shoulders above anything else we've seen from Sony; they've stepped from wobbly plastics to a premium feel. Carrier specifics and exact launch date are still being hashed out but look for the Sony Xperia Z this year sometime in Q1.
In most cases, the hardware are one and the same from the manufacturers.
It's the software that makes the difference. "Software" for me is both Android updates, the skins/UI from the various manufacturers, and the ability to root.
You may not care about Android updates, but I do.
Android updates is not just about fixing bugs...It's also about introducing new features.
At least the 2.3, 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 updates are. If you're talking about going only from 4.0.3 to 4.0.4 or 4.2.0 to 4.2.1, that's fixing bugs in most cases.

You're still running your Galaxy Nexus on ICS 4.0?
Well then...That means you're missing out on both "Google Now" and "Project Butter" since you haven't upgraded to Jelly Bean.
If you don't care about either of those features, then good luck to you...That's your own prerogative.
I care about those features, and I'm sure many people here do as well.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:54 PM   #39
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:09 AM   #40
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In most cases, the hardware are one and the same from the manufacturers.
It's the software that makes the difference. "Software" for me is both Android updates, the skins/UI from the various manufacturers, and the ability to root.
You may not care about Android updates, but I do.
You're equivocating. The ability to root is independent from the updates, in the sense that when I look at xda I see device dependent custom roms, not roms that depend on what the current android on a phone x is. I care about updates, however you're focusing only on the ability to update, and I gave a real world example of a phone that was rendered a brick (painstakingly slow) with each incremental update (my old trusty iPhone 3G). And if you root, you can add the ROM you wish (with the updates you wish), and aren't bound by the manufacturer/carrier to push those updates to you, so either way I'm not sure what your issue truly is.

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Android updates is not just about fixing bugs...It's also about introducing new features.
At least the 2.3, 4.0, 4.1, and 4.2 updates are. If you're talking about going only from 4.0.3 to 4.0.4 or 4.2.0 to 4.2.1, that's fixing bugs in most cases.
You're still running your Galaxy Nexus on ICS 4.0?
Well then...That means you're missing out on both "Google Now" and "Project Butter" since you haven't upgraded to Jelly Bean.
It is Jelly Bean, and that was an update. There has been one update to my phone in almost 1.5 years of ownership (I'm beginning to forget when I got it - it was sometime late 2011 I think).

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If you don't care about either of those features, then good luck to you...That's your own prerogative.
I care about those features, and I'm sure many people here do as well.
I'm sure they do care, but you're not seeing my point. I would rather have a device that is stable for a number of years, rather than updates (as Apple did) that turned my advice from 'snappy enough' to '5 seconds of lag before a call can begin due to how slow the device has become', if I had to choose.

Furthermore, you're trying to extrapolate from Sony's past practices with handsets to this new one, which is a foray into the premium handset category, also speculating that there will be delays (it is up for preorder on Amazon.de already), and so on. I get it - you don't like sony, but I'm sure that a number of people here can recognize a premium handset when they see one, myself included. My iPhone 5 is delayed (it was a gift, being shipped from another country) but I would be up for trading my iPhone 5 (or reselling it) and buying this phone instead.
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Old 01-18-2013, 10:57 AM   #41
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Manufacturers will never solve the update problem until they stop releasing 50 different phone variants a year. They need 4 phones at 4 different price points released at a regular schedule with a predictable naming scheme and a guarantee of 2 year updates. Example:

Highest-end: Sony Xperia Z3 ($650+ unsubsidized)
n-1: Sony Xperia W3 ($550)
n-2: Sony Xperia T3 ($450)
Lowest-end: Sony Xperia S3 ($350)

And in 2014: new flagship, Sony Xperia Z4, then the W4, T4, and S4 below it.

Such that implicitly you get 2 things: phones with letters later in the alphabet are better and phones with higher numbers are newer. Marketing done. Is that so hard?
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Old 01-18-2013, 11:12 AM   #42
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This is pretty cool if it makes into the retail version of the phone. The Xperia Z and ZL may include color calibration software for the screen. Very cool Sony.

http://www.xperiablog.net/2013/01/18...tion-software/
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:19 PM   #43
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You're equivocating. The ability to root is independent from the updates, in the sense that when I look at xda I see device dependent custom roms, not roms that depend on what the current android on a phone x is. I care about updates, however you're focusing only on the ability to update, and I gave a real world example of a phone that was rendered a brick (painstakingly slow) with each incremental update (my old trusty iPhone 3G). And if you root, you can add the ROM you wish (with the updates you wish), and aren't bound by the manufacturer/carrier to push those updates to you, so either way I'm not sure what your issue truly is.



It is Jelly Bean, and that was an update. There has been one update to my phone in almost 1.5 years of ownership (I'm beginning to forget when I got it - it was sometime late 2011 I think).



I'm sure they do care, but you're not seeing my point. I would rather have a device that is stable for a number of years, rather than updates (as Apple did) that turned my advice from 'snappy enough' to '5 seconds of lag before a call can begin due to how slow the device has become', if I had to choose.

Furthermore, you're trying to extrapolate from Sony's past practices with handsets to this new one, which is a foray into the premium handset category, also speculating that there will be delays (it is up for preorder on Amazon.de already), and so on. I get it - you don't like sony, but I'm sure that a number of people here can recognize a premium handset when they see one, myself included. My iPhone 5 is delayed (it was a gift, being shipped from another country) but I would be up for trading my iPhone 5 (or reselling it) and buying this phone instead.
I don't consider "the ability to root" and "updates" to be independent at all. They go hand in hand IMO.
Some of those devices being updated with custom ROMs also have a lot of broken features like broken camera, broken video, broken bluetooth, etc...
If the manufacturer released their updated drivers, those features wouldn't be broken.
Now, someone could walk in here parroting that they don't care about Moto's Android updates because they're already running ICS or JB on their Atrix 4G custom ROMs with a whole list of broken features. If Moto releases their own updates for it, those broken features wouldn't exist.

You state that you've been using the same OS on your Galaxy Nexus since you got it in 2011.
JellyBean was a Summer 2012 Android update.
So which one is it? If you're still "...using the same iteration of Android OS" since you got your Galaxy Nexus in late 2011 then you should still be on ICS.
If you updated to JellyBean, then you clearly do care about OS updates otherwise you'll still remain on ICS and wouldn't have updated it.
Your story keeps changing by the moment so I'm not quite sure whether you're still on ICS, JellyBean, or never updated, or got one update. I'll leave that one up to you.

Stability and Android updates are not mutually exclusive.
If so, then that means all Nexus devices are unstable to you then?
1.) A phone can be stable and never receive new updates or features...This is what you mention that you prefer.
2.) A phone can be stable and receive new updates that don't do much to add new features to the phone(through "selective fragmentation") and makes the system laggy(this is what you experienced with the iPhone 3G, and many people complain about it on the iPhone 4 as well...No new features, lacks Siri, Turn by turn navigation, update gets rid of Jailbreak, makes system/OS more laggy, etc...)
3.) A phone can be both stable and receive new updates/features. Again, neither are mutually exclusive. This is what I personally want and it clearly separates our opinion in that regard.

Because we only have past experiences to go by. Everything else is just assumptions and speculations. If they fix this issue, I will gladly adjust my views of them in the future...But until then, I only have the past to go by.
If one claims that because I want a phone that gets regular updates, not one update 8 months later that will probably be it's only update, then I suppose I'm a Sony/LG/Motorola hater then.
The funny thing about all of this is that if Sony/LG/Motorola makes a Nexus, I would by it because Google would fix those manufacturer's "updates" problem. So much for me being an anti-Sony fanboy then.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:31 PM   #44
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Manufacturers will never solve the update problem until they stop releasing 50 different phone variants a year. They need 4 phones at 4 different price points released at a regular schedule with a predictable naming scheme and a guarantee of 2 year updates. Example:

Highest-end: Sony Xperia Z3 ($650+ unsubsidized)
n-1: Sony Xperia W3 ($550)
n-2: Sony Xperia T3 ($450)
Lowest-end: Sony Xperia S3 ($350)

And in 2014: new flagship, Sony Xperia Z4, then the W4, T4, and S4 below it.

Such that implicitly you get 2 things: phones with letters later in the alphabet are better and phones with higher numbers are newer. Marketing done. Is that so hard?
You can release 50 different phone variants and still "partially" solve the update problems.
Galaxy S series: Will be updated as quick as possible, likely get at least 2 Android updates
Galaxy Note series: Will be updated as quick as possible, likely get at least 2 Android updates
All other Samsung Galaxy "PoS" phones, including the Galaxy S3 Mini, and many other Samsung phones milking the "Galaxy" brand name: Don't know, don't care whether they get any updates at all or only get 1 because I know what their premium brand is. For me, it's not ambiguous.

The problem with most of the other manufacturers is I have no idea what their premium brands are.
They release a high-end phone and call it their premium brand. They release another phone 3-6 months later and call that new one their premium brand(see: HTC One X, One X+, and numerous Sony and LG phones from 2011)

What I want from all the manufacturers is this: Tell me what your flagship brands are that will be top dogs for a year in their respective categories(whether phone, phablet, or tablet) for a year.
LG looks like they will keep "Optimus G" as their premium brand. Previously it was Optimus, Optimus 2x, Optimus 4x, or some Optimus crap all released in the same year and I couldn't figure out which was which.
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Old 01-18-2013, 01:29 PM   #45
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:21 PM   #46
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The Z will not operate on American LTE networks. That reason alone makes me believe it won't be officially available on any of the major 4 carriers. The only one potentially is T-Mobile and that's a long shot.

The ZL however is compatible with AT&T's LTE band and I expect that they will offer it officially in the spring sometime.

In terms or durability I'd argue that the textured plastic of the ZL is superior compared to the glass backing of the Z. The Z of course is water resistent and who wouldn't want that.

It's a shame the Z won't be offered officially in America. The Z looks sleeker but I prefer the backing of the ZL.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:13 PM   #47
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Puts it in the same class as the Nexus 4 which is a budget phone.
The only thing budget about the Nexus is the price.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:44 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lothar View Post
You can release 50 different phone variants and still "partially" solve the update problems.
Galaxy S series: Will be updated as quick as possible, likely get at least 2 Android updates
Galaxy Note series: Will be updated as quick as possible, likely get at least 2 Android updates
All other Samsung Galaxy "PoS" phones, including the Galaxy S3 Mini, and many other Samsung phones milking the "Galaxy" brand name: Don't know, don't care whether they get any updates at all or only get 1 because I know what their premium brand is. For me, it's not ambiguous.

The problem with most of the other manufacturers is I have no idea what their premium brands are.
They release a high-end phone and call it their premium brand. They release another phone 3-6 months later and call that new one their premium brand(see: HTC One X, One X+, and numerous Sony and LG phones from 2011)

What I want from all the manufacturers is this: Tell me what your flagship brands are that will be top dogs for a year in their respective categories(whether phone, phablet, or tablet) for a year.
LG looks like they will keep "Optimus G" as their premium brand. Previously it was Optimus, Optimus 2x, Optimus 4x, or some Optimus crap all released in the same year and I couldn't figure out which was which.
The problem with that method is you end up burning future potential customers if you only actually care about your high-end customers and forget about everyone else. If someone has a bad experience with an HTC phone, why on earth would they buy another one?
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:12 PM   #49
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Old 01-18-2013, 06:31 PM   #50
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You mean the Z they are selling in Germany won't work on most American LTE networks?

It will not.

There are two variants of the Z.

– model number C6603 will support LTE (bands 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 20), HSPA+ & GSM
– model number C6602 will support HSPA+ & GSM bands only

No carrier in the US operates on the bands quoted above.

The ZL will work on AT&T's LTE network.
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