Fiat announces Jeep production may move to China

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by Whiskey16

Disconnect with language and honesty is strong with this one:

No 'shifting' no 'moving' involved. Adding production is the stated and reported plan that even you reaffirmed.

No, in your previous sentences you specifically stated other wise. Yet to be argumentative you directly contradicted yourself to again present the lie.

So why are you unreasonably argumentative and had a motivation to present a lie? This unnecessary barb that you contributed to the end of your post concisely defines you as a disruption to a reasonable discussion and a partisan troll.

A classic case example of but one of many problems with the expressed content in this forum.

If you claim dishonesty then maybe you will refute what I said rather than trying to redefine what you think outsourcing is.

There is one statistic you cannot get away from or redefine. There are cars made for the Chinese market that are curently made in the USA that will now be made in China. I could just imagine the screams of bloody murder from the left if there was a Republican at the wheel right now.

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

If you claim dishonesty then maybe you will refute what I said rather than trying to redefine what you think outsourcing is.

There is one statistic you cannot get away from or redefine. There are cars made for the Chinese market that are curently made in the USA that will now be made in China. I could just imagine the screams of bloody murder from the left if there was a Republican at the wheel right now.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski

Outsourcing: the contracting out of a business process, which an organization may have previously performed internally (Jeeps made in USA that were sold to China) or has a new need for, to an independent organization from which the process is purchased back as a service.

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Outsourcing: the contracting out of a business process, which an organization may have previously performed internally (Jeeps made in USA that were sold to China) or has a new need for, to an independent organization from which the process is purchased back as a service.

Does not imply what you are implying. Outsourcing is to send off tasks for the purpose of Importing back. It is not, as you imply, Manufacturing Product elsewhere for Sale at that foreign location.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski

Does not imply what you are implying. Outsourcing is to send off tasks for the purpose of Importing back. It is not, as you imply, Manufacturing Product elsewhere for Sale at that foreign location.

Those were previously made in the US for the Chinese market. They are now made in China for the Chinese market. What would you call it?

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Those were previously made in the US for the Chinese market. They are now made in China for the Chinese market. What would you call it?

It is not Outsourcing.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski

It is not Outsourcing.

Well that was the closest word I came up with. Any way you look at it anything that was once made here that is now made elsewhere costs jobs, regardless of production increases here for the US market.

[Whiskey16]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Well that was the closest word [outsourcing] I came up with.

No, you also used another word that you were called out upon:

Originally Posted by Matt1970

That's called shifting production to China. Nobody said it was all of Jeep's production.

Nothing is 'shifting,' either. You were caught in the argumentative perpetuation of a falsehood.

Originally Posted by Matt1970

If you claim dishonesty then maybe you will refute what I said rather than trying to redefine what you think outsourcing is.

I concisely addressed every component of your post, right down to the condemnation of your unnecessary and uncalled for partisan barb.

I get it. You are present in this forum to present highly partisan arguments rather than be honest and reasonable.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Well that was the closest word I came up with. Any way you look at it anything that was once made here that is now made elsewhere costs jobs, regardless of production increases here for the US market.

Total Jeeps Made in America last year: 701,626
Total Jeeps Exported to China last Year: 22,294

A whopping 3% production is being moved to China. 3%. Get the fuck over it. This is a drop in the bucket.

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Total Jeeps Made in America last year: 701,626
Total Jeeps Exported to China last Year: 22,294

A whopping 3% production is being moved to China. 3%. Get the fuck over it. This is a drop in the bucket.

And those 3% plus more will still made here to be sold here and abroad (just not China). Like I said, they are not hiring another 1,100 people and spending millions just to be nice (here).

[michal1980]

defenders of Obama still spinning spinning spinning.

If this was done while a republican was in office, the unions and lefties would be screaming the jobs are leaving the usa.

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by michal1980

defenders of Obama still spinning spinning spinning.

If this was done while a republican was in office, the unions and lefties would be screaming the jobs are leaving the usa.

There are no jobs leaving. Toledo is ADDING 1,100 jobs this year. What about that don't you understand?

Jeep is INCREASING production here as well as opening up NEW production there.

Again, what does Obama have to do with any of this?

I'm as against offshoring as anyone in this country and think Obama's free trade (or whatever bullshit) agreements that were signed or pushed for are just another nail in our coffin but this is not what you guys are trying to turn it into. It's been explained but I should expect nothing different from the two guys that start with m and have years at the end of their title. Probably one and the same from the looks of it.

[ch33zw1z]

Originally Posted by michal1980

defenders of Obama still spinning spinning spinning.

If this was done while a republican was in office, the unions and lefties would be screaming the jobs are leaving the usa.

Outsourcing, for lack of a better word, because this really isn't...but anyways, "outsourcing" has been going on for a long time.

Out of curiosity, what did Bush ever do to stop it?

[Pray To Jesus]

Originally Posted by PottedMeat

uh this is the way things have always worked.

chrysler finds good market in china, us cars selling well there
china believes chrysler taking away market from 'home grown' companies
china slaps tariffs on imports, unless chrysler builds chinese market cars in china
chrysler and chinese gov't connected entity have joint venture
for a time chrysler builds cars in china for china using parts made in chysler facilities around the world
over the years chinese industry takes over after learning/stealing what chrysler brought over

we would do the same

Happened to Dell.

chrysler finds good market in china, us cars selling well there
china believes chrysler taking away market from 'home grown' companies
china slaps tariffs on imports, unless chrysler builds chinese market cars in china
chrysler and chinese gov't connected entity have joint venture
for a time chrysler builds cars in china for china using parts made in chysler facilities around the world
over the years chinese industry takes over after learning/stealing what chrysler brought over

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Total Jeeps Made in America last year: 701,626
Total Jeeps Exported to China last Year: 22,294

A whopping 3% production is being moved to China. 3%. Get the fuck over it. This is a drop in the bucket.

22,000 Jeeps sold at a modest $20,000 (Many sell for a LOT more) is only $440,000,000

No bid deal. Fuck them jobs right?

[ch33zw1z]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

22,000 Jeeps sold at a modest $20,000 (Many sell for a LOT more) is only $440,000,000

No bid deal. Fuck them jobs right?

I wonder how much of that 440,000,000 goes to exporting the Jeeps.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by Whiskey16

No, you also used another word that you were called out upon:
Nothing is 'shifting,' either. You were caught in the argumentative perpetuation of a falsehood.

I concisely addressed every component of your post, right down to the condemnation of your unnecessary and uncalled for partisan barb.

I get it. You are present in this forum to present highly partisan arguments rather than be honest and reasonable.

Shifting, outsoursing, moving, transfering, subletting, subcontracting, call it whatever the fuck you want, and my choice of word is irrelivant.

What's partisian is you asshats porting thread after thread of corporations outsourcing and when finally it's a corporation under Obama influence, then outsourcing is just fine.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski

Does not imply what you are implying. Outsourcing is to send off tasks for the purpose of Importing back. It is not, as you imply, Manufacturing Product elsewhere for Sale at that foreign location.

This definition work better for you?

Outsourcing:A practice used by different companies to reduce costs by transferring portions of work to outside suppliers rather than completing it internally.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/...#ixzz2IHbfuNXw

No mention of importing back.

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

This definition work better for you?

Outsourcing:A practice used by different companies to reduce costs by transferring portions of work to outside suppliers rather than completing it internally.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/o/...#ixzz2IHbfuNXw

No mention of importing back.

It doesn't mention Importing, but it is the same thing. If Chrysler were Outsourcing to China, it would be required to Import from China.

Read that definition you posted, then tell us how what Chrysler is doing is "Outsourcing". It is not.

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Shifting, outsoursing, moving, transfering, subletting, subcontracting, call it whatever the fuck you want, and my choice of word is irrelivant.

What's partisian is you asshats porting thread after thread of corporations outsourcing and when finally it's a corporation under Obama influence, then outsourcing is just fine.

You're being a complete idiot. Your choice of word is entirely relevant, that's the whole point of having words.

[Engineer]

If Toyota were to "increase" production here at the same time starting production in China, would that be outsourcing and costing Americans jobs? Fiat, a foreign company, is increasing production here in the US while adding production to China. You guys can cherry pick the idea that cars are being removed from US production and being placed into Chinese production but what you don't mention is that more production for somewhere else is being added....even to the point of making it MORE production.

and on top of that, you guys keeps throwing up Obama which has absolutely nothing to do with this, other than your deep hate and desire to pin anything of failure (which this is not) on the man.

Again....FAIL (as has been said before)

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by Engineer

If Toyota were to "increase" production here at the same time starting production in China, would that be outsourcing and costing Americans jobs? Fiat, a foreign company, is increasing production here in the US while adding production to China. You guys can cherry pick the idea that cars are being removed from US production and being placed into Chinese production but what you don't mention is that more production for somewhere else is being added....even to the point of making it MORE production.

and on top of that, you guys keeps throwing up Obama which has absolutely nothing to do with this, other than your deep hate and desire to pin anything of failure (which this is not) on the man.

Again....FAIL (as has been said before)

So now it is ok to outsource to China as long as you can match the lost jobs.

[Matt1970]

Originally Posted by sandorski

You're being a complete idiot. Your choice of word is entirely relevant, that's the whole point of having words.

Well according to investopedia.com my choice of words are spot on, so how am I being an idiot?

[Engineer]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

So now it is ok to outsource to China as long as you can match the lost jobs.

If you cannot see the difference in closing down production and laying people off to send production to another country, especially to ship those products back to the US vs a company that is INCREASING production, HIRING MORE people and EXPANDING operations in the US at the same time while growing abroad, I don't know what else to say. You're completely hellbent to blame some sort of job and factory loss on Obama no matter what you hear. I'm done...have at it. I'm just glad that when Fiat offshored (your words) those 22,000 vehicles, they "reshored" (my words) 22,000 and then some not to mention over 1,100 good paying jobs that create wealth. Nothing anyone here says is going to change your partisan views on this subject.

[sandorski]

Originally Posted by Matt1970

Well according to investopedia.com my choice of words are spot on, so how am I being an idiot?

According to Investopedia, your reading comprehension sucks.