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01-10-2013, 09:04 AM
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#326
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
Of course I know what the word consent means.
I just do not see how the concept of consent is meaningful when applied to an animal.
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So the animal told you to come fuck it?
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:04 AM
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#327
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
I just do not see how the concept of consent is meaningful when applied to an animal.
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With an animal consent cannot be determined. If consent cannot be determined it cannot be assumed to be given.
__________________
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool -Mark Twain
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand -Milton Friedman
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert J. Hanlon
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01-10-2013, 09:06 AM
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#328
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Discussion Club Moderator
Elite Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
Please tell me how I am dictating my morals on them. Wait... Don't say because I post my opinions on these forums either because this isn't dictating.
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Yesterday you claimed that people posting opinions contrary to yours was "mind control".
Have you had a change of heart?
__________________
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Author, The TCP/IP Guide (getting a bit old but still lots of good free info)
"If two traditional cores are like normal identical twins, CMT is like conjoined twins,
and traditional SMT is like a person with multiple personality disorder." -- Exophase
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01-10-2013, 09:07 AM
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#329
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
Really? I thought it started with an L(iberal).
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Nope "hyprocrisy" starts with an H. Didnt think id have to spell if out for you. I dont know why i cant keep remembering that you need a helping hand at all times. My bad. Ill try better in the future to make my sentences idiot proof for you.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:07 AM
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#330
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcougher73
Really? Ive read this whole thread. I know your position and what youve been trying to defend. You are not for SSM, your position is noted. Dont be mad i called you on your hypocrisy on dictating morals on others.
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Again for repetition, giving my opinion is not pushing my morals on anyone.... It is NOT!
No I am not for SSM, so is being against something dictating or pushing my view onto someone? Could I say since you're for it you're pushing yours on me?
Thought not, move along.
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01-10-2013, 09:15 AM
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#331
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcougher73
So the animal told you to come fuck it?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
With an animal consent cannot be determined. If consent cannot be determined it cannot be assumed to be given.
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Again this is irrelevant.
Consent is a concept that only makes sense when applied to people.
The horse didn't give you consent to ride it. But for some reason that is considered okay.
The only difference between riding a horse and having sex with it is that you consider one to be "icky".
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01-10-2013, 09:18 AM
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#332
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesKozierok
Yesterday you claimed that people posting opinions contrary to yours was "mind control".
Have you had a change of heart?
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This is just my opinion, Charles, when you want to put something into law, you're pushing it onto others who may not want it. Putting things into law doesn't mean it's a bad or unwise thing to do.
I'm not trying to put a legal ban on SSM, nor do I want to, so I ain't pushing a thing on you or anyone.
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01-10-2013, 09:19 AM
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#333
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
Again this is irrelevant.
Consent is a concept that only makes sense when applied to people.
The horse didn't give you consent to ride it. But for some reason that is considered okay.
The only difference between riding a horse and having sex with it is that you consider one to be "icky".
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No it's not irrelevant. A horse cannot agree to be bound by government/legal/taxation rules nor can it agree to benefits. It cannot give consent to the conditions of legal marriage.
__________________
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool -Mark Twain
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand -Milton Friedman
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert J. Hanlon
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01-10-2013, 09:24 AM
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#334
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
No it's not irrelevant. A horse cannot agree to be bound by government/legal/taxation rules nor can it agree to benefits. It cannot give consent to the conditions of legal marriage.
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It cannot give consent to the conditions of YOUR ANIMALPHOBIC DEFINITION of legal marriage.
Either you believe the government cannot discriminate on marriage with regards to sexual orientation or you do not.
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01-10-2013, 09:27 AM
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#335
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
It cannot give consent to the conditions of YOUR ANIMALPHOBIC DEFINITION of legal marriage.
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It cannot give consent no matter how you define marriage. Also, our Constitution doesn't give rights to or impose responsibilities on horses and other non-human animals. Until or unless that changes, using bestiality to argue against same-sex marriage is illogical.
__________________
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool -Mark Twain
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand -Milton Friedman
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert J. Hanlon
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01-10-2013, 09:34 AM
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#336
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,015
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Oh soulcaugher, as far as I see, your ilk are looking to force their view of marriage on the country by changing how marriage is defined. So who's trying to dictate to who?
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01-10-2013, 09:40 AM
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#337
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
It cannot give consent no matter how you define marriage.
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And I as I have said the concept of consent only makes sense when applied to humans.
What do you not understand about that?
Did you miss the thread about the 15 year marrying the 90 year old in Saudi Arabia? It does not seem that consent is some of kind of fundamental requirement to marriage. And while requiring consent of all people in a marriage seems sensible, requiring consent of all animals in a marriage does not, as it is perfectly fine to force animals to do things without consent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
Also, our Constitution doesn't give rights to or impose responsibilities on horses and other non-human animals. Until or unless that changes, using bestiality to argue against same-sex marriage is illogical.
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But it does give rights to people. People who are attracted to animals are people and have just as much right to marry as homosexuals and heterosexuals.
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01-10-2013, 09:44 AM
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#338
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
Again for repetition, giving my opinion is not pushing my morals on anyone.... It is NOT!
No I am not for SSM, so is being against something dictating or pushing my view onto someone? Could I say since you're for it you're pushing yours on me?
Thought not, move along.
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Yes you are pushing them on me because you are supporting the in-equality we have regarding SSM.
Yes im pushing my equality for all morals on you. Enjoy.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:45 AM
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#339
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
And I as I have said the concept of consent only makes sense when applied to humans.
What do you not understand about that?
Did you miss the thread about the 15 year marrying the 90 year old in Saudi Arabia? It does not seem that consent is some of kind of fundamental requirement to marriage. And while requiring consent of all people in a marriage seems sensible, requiring consent of all animals in a marriage does not, as it is perfectly fine to force animals to do things without consent.
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Saudi Arabia != America. And no, it is not perfectly fine to force animals to do things without their consent.
Quote:
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But it does give rights to people. People who are attracted to animals are people and have just as much right to marry as homosexuals and heterosexuals.
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People have the right to marry other people, they do not have the right to marry (enter into a legally binding agreement) with a non-human, because the government and law cannot hold the non-human thing accountable for not meeting the expectations of the agreement.
__________________
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool -Mark Twain
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand -Milton Friedman
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert J. Hanlon
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01-10-2013, 09:46 AM
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#340
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
This is just my opinion, Charles, when you want to put something into law, you're pushing it onto others who may not want it. Putting things into law doesn't mean it's a bad or unwise thing to do.
I'm not trying to put a legal ban on SSM, nor do I want to, so I ain't pushing a thing on you or anyone.
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But by supporting the ban on SSM you are allowing your morals to be pushed on us. What you should do is fight for SSM rights, but keep your beliefs that its wrong to yourself.
I mean how would you like to be born into a world that hetro-marriages were banned and unrecongized and you were as hetro as im assuming you are now?
And just so you know im as hetro as they come. Im married etc. I have no card in this game other than equality for others.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
Last edited by soulcougher73; 01-10-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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01-10-2013, 09:47 AM
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#341
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcougher73
Yes you are pushing them on me because you are supporting the in-equality we have regarding SSM.
Yes im pushing my equality for all morals on you. Enjoy.
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You mean unless that system of morality includes marrying animals
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01-10-2013, 09:48 AM
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#342
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
Oh soulcaugher, as far as I see, your ilk are looking to force their view of marriage on the country by changing how marriage is defined. So who's trying to dictate to who?
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I answered this below going in post order. But yes we are dictating our equality for all upon you. Enjoy. You want to discriminate. I dont. Big difference.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:48 AM
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#343
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 8,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
Saudi Arabia != America. And no, it is not perfectly fine to force animals to do things without their consent.
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So you find riding horse to be morally reprehensible?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zsdersw
People have the right to marry other people, they do not have the right to marry (enter into a legally binding agreement) with a non-human, because the government and law cannot hold the non-human thing accountable.
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People have the right to marry a person of the opposite gender 
You want to add a new right marry a person of the same gender.
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01-10-2013, 09:50 AM
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#344
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
And I as I have said the concept of consent only makes sense when applied to humans.
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You realize you are defeating your own argument right? You just admitted consent only applies to humans, and marriage requires consent.
Put 2 and 2 together here.
Nevermind ill put it together for you. Almost forgot again. My bad.
If consent is required by our laws for marriage and consent only applies to humans then that means only humans can get married. Not animals, not objects.
Make sense now?
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:52 AM
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#345
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
You mean unless that system of morality includes marrying animals
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See above post #344. Already debunked your arguement.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 09:53 AM
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#346
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nehalem256
People have the right to marry a person of the opposite gender
You want to add a new right marry a person of the same gender. |
OMG THE HORROR!!. Equality and choices. Man that sucks.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 10:03 AM
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#347
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcougher73
I answered this below going in post order. But yes we are dictating our equality for all upon you. Enjoy. You want to discriminate. I dont. Big difference.
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Thanks for admitting that. Lol "enjoy"? I like that little jab. Sure will!
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01-10-2013, 10:12 AM
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#348
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
Thanks for admitting that. Lol "enjoy"? I like that little jab. Sure will!
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Youre welcome. I dont mind taking about my equality for all. Makes me feel good im going through life not being an ass trying to keep certain people from doing what they want to.
Id much rather be on my death bed knowing i wasnt a bigot or a person who discrimates because i find certain actions gross or wrong.
But enjoy your life of telling others how to live and what they can and cannot do with their life. And if you notice me wanting SSM does nothing to you. Im not telling you how to live. Freedom means nothing to you people.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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01-10-2013, 10:12 AM
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#349
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Platinum Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcougher73
But by supporting the ban on SSM you are allowing your morals to be pushed on us. What you should do is fight for SSM rights, but keep your beliefs that its wrong to yourself.
I mean how would you like to be born into a world that hetro-marriages were banned and unrecongized and you were as hetro as im assuming you are now?
And just so you know im as hetro as they come. Im married etc. I have no card in this game other than equality for others.
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How would I feel? Don't know. Bad hypothetical because homosexuality would have to be the norm and hetero the "abnormal" thing. The world would probably be a different place than what it is today. So I don't know, honestly.
Nice try though.
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01-10-2013, 10:18 AM
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#350
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,480
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob M.
How would I feel? Don't know. Bad hypothetical because homosexuality would have to be the norm and hetero the "abnormal" thing. The world would probably be a different place than what it is today. So I don't know, honestly.
Nice try though.
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So you lack forward (critical) thinking skills. Got it.
I prefer to look at it as what 2 consenting adults do sexually as not "normal" or "abnormal". Whatever floats their boat, as long as they are adults and consenting i care less.
It shouldnt be that hard to imagine. Just imagine you cannot get married to who you love and are treated as a 2nd class citizen.
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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