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Old 01-08-2013, 03:57 PM   #1
Madia
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Default How does Neverwinter Night 2 hold up?

I never played the NWN games and got interested in them after playing BG:EE. From what I've read the first NWN is kind of average on it's own but made great by it's multiplayer (which I'm not interested in). The second game interests me more and I was wondering how it holds up.

Unfortunatley the game is no longer on steam (other than the copies yet to be gifted) so I'd have to purchase it from atari:

http://www.atari.com/platform/neverw...um-pc-download

Does atari use any drm on their games? Also, if I buy it are there any must have mods?
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:03 PM   #2
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Supposedly Throne of the Betrayer is quite good, but if you're just playing single player it's all about the player created modules [once you finish the campaign]. Or so I assume, that's what made NWN great at least.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #3
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NWN 1 could still be worth getting from GoG.com ($10 DRM-free) mostly for the second and third campaigns (Shadows of Undrentide, Hordes of the Underdark). There are also some good fan-created single-player modules like Adam Miller's series.

I enjoyed the NWN 2 main campaign, and the Mask of the Betrayer campaign for it is also very good. I got it from Atari on disk years ago and it does have DRM (not sure the exact brand).

For more D&D style RPG goodness from Bioware and Obsidian, pick up Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 on Steam. If you wait for a sale they have been 50-75% off.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:19 PM   #4
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I've played through most of these games tons of times; here's my take on it.

I had a better time with NWN1 than NWN2. But that was credited to the online community that was available at the time. So many fun persistant-world online mods to play on. I'm guessing the community isn't as active now but I can't say for sure. I've had the most fun with this game in its prime than any other I've ever played.

The official campaign in NWN1 was pretty bad but still fun. I really enjoyed the first expansion a lot. (shadows of undrentide). Probably my favorite of nwn1. Horde of the Underdark(the second expansion) seems to be everybody's favorite. But it was never able to keep my interest to play through the whole thing.

So for NWN1, I would play the expansions, shadows of undrentide first. There is an NPC in that game that carries through to the second expansion that you'll enjoy a lot. If you want more of a hack and slash style though you'll want the official campaign. Shadows of undrentide is more about roleplay and atmosphere while the OC and the second expansion are a lot more fighting oriented.

NWN2 is fun. The online community didn't take off quite the same as NWN1 because the toolset was buggy beyond useablity. Imagine spending 30 hours on a world you are building to have the save get corrupted.

The official campaign in NWN2 starts off boring.. it stays boring for a long time. Once you get mid-game it turns completely badass though. Well worth the drudge to get to it. The first expansion I own but only briefly played and got occupied with other stuff. I'll have to get back to it some time. But the atmopshere of it was amazing. Probably the best I've seen. I'd like to have the time to try it again. I havn't picked up the second expansion yet.

I'd suggest grabbing the diamond addition of NWN1 on GOG and start with that.

These have been some long time favorite games of mine. Allthough they are out of their prime now without the online community for the online play(which is what these games were all about.. Playing dnd with friends through the computer)
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:01 PM   #5
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NWN1 was great mainly due to the mods, and without a doubt, specifically due to Player Resource Consortium (PRC). They added hundreds of spells, dozens of races/classes/sub-races/sub-classes, fixed all kinds of script issues, and overall almost completely merged what was available in D&D at the time into NWN1.This allowed other modders to create their own worlds with much more variety not limited as much as the official campaigns. The problem with D&D video games is that most were always limited to such a small subset of the available material and exiting rules (because there are so many additions, and a lot of open-endedness to the rules allowing the GM to create their own things, change rules to "house" rules (adding/modifying/removing certain rules), adding custom content not already described in materials, etc. PRC mod created the framework to add many of those custom things into NWN1, at least in the way of spells, races, classes).

As had been said, NWN2 was completely broken in terms of mods and support, and really did not last nearly as long as NWN1 as a result. The game had many things simply hardcoded, like the total number of classes/sub-classes/races, etc., which prevented modders from adding new ones (because to add a new one, you had to remove another one). This really showed the difference in the developer talent used to create the finished game between the first and second games (creating static sized arrays/heaps vs dynamic ones is a mistake only someone fresh out of school would make). Yeah the graphics were a little more polished, and they used a newer set of D&D rules, but the underlying code was real crap. Maybe the guys who created the engine knew what they were doing, but the ones who used that engine to create the packaged game really used some poor talent.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:23 PM   #6
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All of this might be a moot point for me since I can't find anywhere to buy NWN2 digitally. Despite Atari saying they sell it if you click "buy it now" you're forwarded to a broken url. I'm not sure why it's unavailable anymore. I think it was on the steam summer sale just last year.

GOG still has the first Neverwinter but since I'm only interested in the original campaign and not the mods I think I'll skip it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:59 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Madia View Post
All of this might be a moot point for me since I can't find anywhere to buy NWN2 digitally. Despite Atari saying they sell it if you click "buy it now" you're forwarded to a broken url. I'm not sure why it's unavailable anymore. I think it was on the steam summer sale just last year.

GOG still has the first Neverwinter but since I'm only interested in the original campaign and not the mods I think I'll skip it.
Mods where pretty much the entire point of nwn1 to begin with. It was a toolset for playing dnd. The official campaign was just tacked on as a bonus. I'd really suggest giving them a second thought. I can fire these up at any time and still have fun, just with limited online community.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:39 PM   #8
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GOG still has the first Neverwinter but since I'm only interested in the original campaign and not the mods I think I'll skip it.
Despite the previous guy talking about multiplayer mods, you can ignore them *and* the main campaign and still get many times your money's worth. There are a number of single player "mods" (actually full-length campaigns) that are among the best RPGs ever released... they just happen to be free.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:46 AM   #9
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^ exactly. Go to IGN's Neverwinter Vault and there are hundreds of single-player modules for NWN 1.

Plus the $10 GOG package includes 3 separate, long campaigns. The other two aren't bite-sized DLC, they are 10-20 hours long each.

The first one is just OK, but the second and third campaigns are good to very good.
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:00 AM   #10
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I'd totally skip the NWN1 OC though. The first and second expansions go together and are both good, so play those together as your intro.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:45 AM   #11
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NWN1 is legendary for it's online community to those who played it. I know I spent lots of time in the Divided Kingdoms persistent world and loved every minute of it. I even uploaded a custom portrait pack on the vault for that game. An amazing game, it should have set the standard for modern online gaming. The OC isn't bad but the single player is made entirely more enjoyable with an assist from the aforementioned PRC pack. Honestly, the game is a real time sink either way so if that's what you want then NWN is what you need. There is a new Neverwinter game on the horizon iirc, might be worth checking out.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:50 PM   #12
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From my, mostly singleplayer, experience with both; NWN1 is far superior to NWN2. The first one has, in my opinion, a very enjoyable campaign and both expansions added tons of gameplay and its campaigns where excellent. I also liked that Bioware released a few short adventures for free, after launch.

NWN2 was far less enjoyable, its engine is simply horrible. Its performance was terrible at launch, and still pretty bad. The graphics also suffers from stupid limitations, like the dynamic shadows disappearing when you zoom out. Unlike NWN1 the storyline is forced and the gameplay feels like a "corridor-RPG". I hated the party system as well, the choices you made at char-gen felt insignificant since you're running around with a small army capable of everything either way.
I never got very far in NWN2's campaign, and didn't even start any of its expansion. I tried a few times (after each pc upgrade), but it kept putting me off. It didn't share any of the things i liked in NWN1.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:04 PM   #13
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NWN2 was far less enjoyable, its engine is simply horrible. Its performance was terrible at launch, and still pretty bad.
Yes, but at least it's now perfectly playable. It went from ~10FPS with a 8800GTS and 2.6GHz X2 5200+ at 800x600 with EVERYTHING turned down to an Athlon 64 3000+ and 8800GTS being able to pull off 1600x1200 with 2xAA at 30-40FPS with most things set to max.

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I hated the party system as well, the choices you made at char-gen felt insignificant since you're running around with a small army capable of everything either way.
There are a lot of mediocre classes and some good classes made redundant by NPC's (who needs another Fighter when you have Khelgar or another Druid when you have Elanee?) but try running the Warehouse with a rogue, monk, or wizard vs my greatsword-wielding Natural Leader Battle Bard and it's night and day. Run as a sorc and once you hit level 7+ you'll see why "Linear fighters/quadratic wizards" is a trope, especially when teamed up with Qara.
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:15 PM   #14
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i preferred NWN2 over NWN1. NWN1: HOTU was very fun though.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:49 PM   #15
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both rocked.

in terms of mods (where they really shined) NWN1 was far far far better. there are so many great mods that you can play for years and not get to bored.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:36 PM   #16
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There is a new Neverwinter game on the horizon iirc, might be worth checking out.
I looked into this a few weeks ago. It sounds like it's a Neverwinter game in name only; a completely unrelated game that uses the D&D license and takes place in Neverwinter but that won't be at all similar to Neverwinter Nights.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:38 PM   #17
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I looked into this a few weeks ago. It sounds like it's a Neverwinter game in name only; a completely unrelated game that uses the D&D license and takes place in Neverwinter but that won't be at all similar to Neverwinter Nights.
Yeah, isn't it a MMO?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:16 AM   #18
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both rocked.

in terms of mods (where they really shined) NWN1 was far far far better. there are so many great mods that you can play for years and not get to bored.
yeah NWN1 had some great mods. there was one that was like DOTA but NWN style.

it was amazing - cast invisibility, haste, and premonition on self, then run into the enemy base and cast wail of the banshee. all those poor fail vs. will saves
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Old 01-10-2013, 02:47 AM   #19
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play DA:O
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:04 AM   #20
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IIRC the new Neverwinter game supposedly plays more like Vindictus than anything else, but that's basically just word of mouth to me. I haven't paid much attention to Neverwinter or ever played Vindictus.

Supposedly, for what it is it's pretty good, but at the same time I've gotten the impression it isn't much like NWN either.
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Old 01-10-2013, 11:41 AM   #21
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play DA:O
Well, yes and no.

The DA:O OC is better than either NWN OC by an incalculably large amount. However, its longevity fell prey to the same stuff that hurt NWN2:

(1) The toolset was *too* powerful. Having the actual pro tools meant that you could and probably would spend hours and hours making sure that the dirt texture in some particular spot came out right. (Or hell... voice acting.) In NWN1, you dealt with the ugliness/imprecision and moved on. This allowed single modders to bring really big and substantial gameplay/story visions to life. After NWN1, you basically needed a team for anything big... and you know what happens to amateur mod teams.

(2) The devs relied on their own content for continued engagement and not the community. For NWN2 this was mostly a matter of the license-holder being a nightmare, but DA was unfortunately crippled by the need to cash in on the DLC era, killing community dreams of Bioware nurturing and bringing to market community talent as it did with the Premium Modules (but in a larger way, unshackled by Atari and WOTC). To add insult to injury, the DA DLCs and expansion and sequel were horrible cash-in money-grabs that crippled the brand.
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