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Old 12-18-2012, 05:12 PM   #1
wansurfer
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Question What's a good powerline network adapter? [see 3rd post]

[Original title was "What chips are in a TRENDnet TPL-307E powerline adapter?"]

Hi,

I was doing some research on some of the different Ethernet to powerline network adapters. However, I have found very little information about what chip or chipsets are used in these devices. What is in a TRENDnet TPL-307E? Where can I get more info about what chips are in other adapters?

Part of the reason I am interested in the chips is that I read some information about new chips that perform better but I have not found any specific information about what devices have or will have those chips. Of course, the advertisements on retail websites and information on the manufacturer's websites don't mention what is inside their devices.

Last edited by wansurfer; 12-25-2012 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Changed the title.
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Old 12-25-2012, 02:49 PM   #2
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In case anybody is wondering.. I contacted the TRENDnet Helpdesk and was told the chip set in the TPL-307E is the Atheros AR6405.

After researching the product I'm not sure I want it. Looks like the QoS feature isn't configurable and I may not be able to switch it off. Plus I can't tell if the device can filter frequencies that may interfere with the network connection. It would be annoying if it comes with a pass-through outlet but I can't plug a lot of things in to it because they may interfere with the network connection.
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Old 12-25-2012, 03:05 PM   #3
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I've been looking at features but still can't find what I want. Any recommendations?

What I'm looking for:
IEEE 1901 and HomePlug compatibility
200Mbps is acceptable but 1Gbps is better
passthrough outlet is nice but not required
ability to work with some interference is important especially if the adapter has a passthrough outlet
( there's a Zyxel adapter that has a chip for that^ )
configurable QoS and/or the ability to switch it off
I don't want to spend a lot in case this doesn't work out, ~$50 USD is preferred
I checked the circuit breakers for my home and they won't be a problem.

I wish there was an electronics database where all the details about an electronic product could be entered and users could search it for what they want. Newegg's system isn't bad. One of the better ones that I've seen but I wish it was better.

Last edited by wansurfer; 12-25-2012 at 03:15 PM. Reason: Changed a word for clarity.
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Old 12-25-2012, 05:31 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wansurfer View Post
I wish there was an electronics database where all the details about an electronic product could be entered and users could search it for what they want. Newegg's system isn't bad. One of the better ones that I've seen but I wish it was better.
FCC database?
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Old 12-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #5
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I think I've used some FCC databases a couple times but I doubt they would keep track of a product's compatibility with the HomePlug standard. [leaves AnandTech forums, does some Googling, comes back] Hehe, which FCC database? I tried searching for TPL-307E here but I didn't find anything. I found a couple articles about HomePlug.
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Old 12-25-2012, 11:02 PM   #6
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Powerline adapters are already ten years on the market and still very unpopular.

Why?
Because in most cases their performance su*ks, and they always lag (and always will) few generation behind regular Ethernet networking.

As the name "hints" powerline network uses the local powerline wiring.

Given what this lines are used for they are like "cancer" to any ride-on signal that carries data.

If you do not have another options, you can try, who knows may be you will be lucky.

However, order only if the vendors offers a liberal return policy under No question asks and No money lost.

P.S. The reason that Powerline does not disappear is because the industry want to keep it alive until the age of networked appliances will arrive.

Monitoring and controling (network wise) slow appliances like frigde, stove, etc., through the network will not be a problem because "Speed" is Not the issue in such activity.

BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.


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Old 12-26-2012, 03:40 AM   #7
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I use several of the Zyxel 500 Mbps powerline networking devices, within my home and to an external building where installing Ethernet would take a lot of time.
They work well, but as with wireless speed performance claims, don't believe the high numbers that they advertise.

I get real speeds of a 50 to 100 Mbps, depends on the distance of the wiring. Better than wireless, but worse than wired Ethernet.
1Gbps will never happens.
See charts and reviews here: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwa...ne-charts/view

There is less danger from powerline network than from using a microwave/toaster/light/etc..
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Old 12-27-2012, 01:09 AM   #8
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Hi JoeMcJoe,

Earlier I was researching some of the Zyxel products- the PLA407 and PLA401v3. The user manual for one (or both?) of those specifically mentions that the device has a chip that helps filter out disruptive frequencies to improve the connection and there was no mention of other electrical devices that shouldn't be used on the same wiring circuit as the powerline network adapter. That was unlike what I found in the manual for the TRENDnet TPL-307E. Though I think the Zyxel's weren't compliant with IEEE 1901. Not that I really know how much that matters but that seems to be a new standard and I was hoping to find something that would work well and be compliant with that. Though, in the end, I may not be able to get everything I want for the price I want.

There was something odd that I noticed about the Zyxels. While reading the user's manual there was a section about using the Mac OS X version of the utility to configure QoS for the adapter but there was no mention of doing that with the Windows version of the utility. I don't have any Macs so how do I configure QoS?

Thanks for the link. I think I already have that bookmarked. I remember the Netgear adapter was the best. There was a FAQ on Netgear's site that explained why the specs of the adapters seem so exaggerated and what they really mean. Even after reading that I see that they still don't perform perfectly. Though it doesn't inspire confidence in the product when it says 500Mbps for connections on the powerline but the adapter itself has only a 100Mbps RJ45 port.



JackMDS,

Currently my options are limited because the owners of the home I live in think I'll mess up something if I run cables like Cat5e across the ceiling and down through the walls but I'm slowly wearing them down until I can persuade them to think otherwise. [Ok, I admit it, I live at home with my parents.] Plus, this could be very helpful to my cousin who may be interested in using a NAS to backup her data but the only safe place she has to put the NAS is in large walk-in concrete safe that has one power outlet. Though I acknowledge that doing backups to a NAS though a powerline network adapter may not be so good. Maybe since she recently bought a new residential router a better wireless connection can be made now.

The future of appliances.. I expect a lot of those will still have a use for AC but electronics need DC and always have some kind of AC to DC converter. I've noticed USB ports are being added to some AC outlets or a person can buy an adapter now. I wonder if someday USB ports will be commonly found on all outlets, will be used to power most of our home electronics, and utilizing the same port for data will be easy. Though I'm wondering how all the USB ports could be networked and I expect some kind of new USB standard would be used.

We have a large electrical substation a few miles from out home. I've heard it is one of the larger ones in the state. Or, maybe it is one of the larger ones in the country. I can't remember. So, ya, I've read and heard stuff about high voltage powerlines. Personally, I'm not worried about them but constantly hearing them crackle could get annoying. Due to a lot of power poles and towers in our area supporting lines that converge on the substation and this being a somewhat rural farming area it is not uncommon for farmers to have power lines crossing their fields and they're not happy with needing to move irrigation and other farm equipment around them.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:18 PM   #9
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Ok, I finally figured out that HomePlug AV means the adapter is compliant with IEEE 1901. I was reading the specs for a lot of the powerline network adapters (technically I guess they are bridges?) and not seeing IEEE 1901. I thought that maybe that standard wasn't commonly supported yet but then I found a web page at HomePlug.org that explains what HomePlug AV means. That may have been explained to me earlier someplace else like in some reviews but the info didn't stick in my brain.

Earlier I stated that the Windows version of the utility for configuring the adapters wouldn't let me configure QoS. However, I rechecked the user's manual for the ZyXEL PLA-407 and found that in the Windows utility in the Advanced menu I can configure QoS in a generalized way. I guess it is more user friendly for those who don't know the technical details.

I contacted Newegg about sending back the unopened box from them that contains the TRENDnet TPL-307E2KIT. I asked about refusing delivery. They told me I had to refuse it face to face with the delivery person for that to work. Our delivery person has never delivered anything to us and waited for us to have the option to refuse delivery. They drop it off at the door or mailbox and they're gone.

Last edited by wansurfer; 12-27-2012 at 07:38 PM. Reason: Added the part about me rechecking for QoS support. Added the part about Newegg.
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Old 12-27-2012, 07:57 PM   #10
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When I bought the TPL-307E2KIT I think I used PayPal and they have something for paying return shipping right now so I guess if I can't refuse delivery then maybe PayPal will pay for the return shipping.

I bought a ZyXEL PLA-407 two adapter startup kit from Amazon for $52. I think there was a similar deal at Newegg but that passed and I'm not sure why Amazon's price is still so low. Normally only one of those adapters sells for about $40. Honestly, I think $52 for two that are rated at 200Mbps is a bit too much but I've wanted to try using this for a while.
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:29 AM   #11
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You don't need to configure anything with the adapters, the Zyxel software really just displays the network speeds to the devices. They have buttons on the side to configure the paired security codes.

I have only used the Belkin and Zyxel 500 Mbps devices. I use the Netgear software, it works on Zyxel devices too, as it looks like all the manufacturers use the same internal chipset. With the older 200 Mbps devices, not sure what speeds you'll get, but should be similar.
The Zyxel 500 Mbps devices have gigabit ports, one device I have has a 4 port gigabit switch.

The Zyxel 200 Mbps devices might be compatible with the TPlink 200 Mbps devices, as the first gen 500 Mbps were.
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Old 12-28-2012, 10:30 AM   #12
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I just got the Western Digital Powerline kit for Christmas and so far it works really well for what I use it for. Mostly streaming SD and HD movies and TV shows from my computer upstairs to our BD player in the livingroom downstairs. The kids also use Netflix to watch cartoons.

It comes with a utility program that is a little buggy on Win8 but seems to work. According to the utility software I'm connected at 175Mbps which is more than enough for what I use it for. The box it rated for 200 but lets face it you never see the advertised speeds except in the lab under perfect conditions. Our home was built in '46 but the wiring was redone in the early '90's.

Overall I'm really happy with it. I was using the wireless adaptor in the BD player and it sucked. It was constantly dropping and disconnecting from the network but now with the WD wired adaptor it just works.
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Old 12-31-2012, 01:34 PM   #13
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I've been using a WD power line adapter for 2 years. It worked great for a month or two, and then I started having serious performance issues. My goal was to connect several devices in my family room to my router in the basement, but the outlet I was suing in the basement had intermittent performance issues. I tried using a filter on my main house electrical panel, etc...

Luckily, my house is networked with LAN cables (although the family outlet isn't connected for some reason) so I was able to move the powerline adapter from my basement to an outlet in my den, near a working LAN connection. It's been working fine now, but it only has to go about 15 feet. I should have just ran a LAN cable under the carpet from my den to the family room, but things work now so I'm happy. Just goes to show that these powerline adapters can be flaky, for reasons beyond your control. I don't think it matters all that much what brand you get. My WD adapters have been working fine for over a year now, powering a WD live player, Blue Ray player, and my TV.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMDS View Post
BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.
That seems a bit over the top, Jack. The electromagnetic fields from nearby wiring and devices in your home will generally contribute more than "nearby" power lines.

For what it's worth, I resorted to powerline carrier two and a half years ago and (being lucky) it's worked great for me (a non-gamer). Here's what I'm using:

http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Theate...AVB1004-100NAS

Good luck.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PowerEngineer View Post
That seems a bit over the top, Jack. The electromagnetic fields from nearby wiring and devices in your home will generally contribute more than "nearby" power lines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackMDS View Post
BTW to give a general example about what Powerlines can cause, there is research that shows that the prevalence of Learning Disabilities is Higher than the average in Kids that grow up in houses that are under (or very close by) High Voltage Power lines.

Realy High Voltage.


Home =110VAC

High Voltage Powerlines = 100kVAC and more, that is 1000 and more over than Home power.

http://www.icnirp.org/PubEMF.htm

http://www.ehib.org/emf/general.html


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Old 01-03-2013, 12:02 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeMcJoe View Post
I use several of the Zyxel 500 Mbps powerline networking devices, within my home and to an external building where installing Ethernet would take a lot of time.
They work well, but as with wireless speed performance claims, don't believe the high numbers that they advertise.

I get real speeds of a 50 to 100 Mbps, depends on the distance of the wiring. Better than wireless, but worse than wired Ethernet.
1Gbps will never happens.
See charts and reviews here: http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanwa...ne-charts/view

There is less danger from powerline network than from using a microwave/toaster/light/etc..
I use the same adapters and have had about the same experience. My throughput is around 70 Mbps and it seems to have enough bandwidth to stream Bluray rips just fine, so it's good for my purpose.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:29 PM   #17
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It is Not a matter of general good and general Bad.

In general.

Most of the discussion on Both Wireless and Powerline are concerning uses that those thingies did not really designed for.

Wireless 802.11 was initially designed for laptops to be used in the same room to avoid constant dragging of wires. To deploy it in a wider area it was designed to work with Access Points connected via wires to a main Router.

Powerline is designed for the future working of Smart appliances.

Wireless was not designed to cover Big Houses because your Landlord/Mom/wife etc. do not want one to install wires.

Powerline was not design to be a conduit of high level real computing data.

That does not mean that they can not be used for other type of environment.

It just means be aware and use whatever suits your specific purpose in Your Specific environment, rather than trying to claim some "silly" overall superiority of one piece of plastic/silicone over the other.



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Old 01-09-2013, 11:08 AM   #18
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In case anybody is interested Newegg is selling a pair of the ZyXEL PLA407's for $40 right now. You need to use promo code EMCNJNB67. About a week ago I bought a pair from a seller on Amazon for $52 and I'm kinda annoyed with myself right now. Though what I paid isn't so bad compared to Newegg's earlier price.

Last edited by wansurfer; 01-09-2013 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Added a link.
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:13 AM   #19
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I know this is an old thread but it was a decent discussion, and I'd been considering upgrading 200Mbps plugs to 500Mbps after a broadband upgrade. I decided to measure things first to see what was really being achieved so sharing what I found here.

The summary if you don't care about the details is that my 200-rated TP-Link devices have worked solidly for over 2 years now (Jan 2011, so quite old but really very reliable). They may be based on the same chip set as the Zyxel PLA-407 so possibly Atheros INT6400 from 2010 based on firmware name but I couldn't verify this for certain.

In favourable conditions the link quality is detected as 172 out of 200 and in my real world setup the connection is more like 70 or 80 out of 200. So on the real world 70-80 measure I actually get about 18.5Mbps or at the going rate of 8bits to a byte, then a little under 2.5 megabytes per second on real network transfers over my less than trivial power connection.

Achieving one quarter of the quality rating as real Mbps on the network between Windows machines seems to be very consistent. Whether that holds up for the more recent 500Mbps rated devices with newer chip sets (i.e. giving 125Mbps or 15 megabytes per second transfer rates with a 200 out of 200 quality link) I really cannot say.

I never really noticed this up until recently as the broadband connection itself maxxed out at 10Mbps so that was the weakest link in the chain. Now my next question is that since my aging EoP devices are limited by the actual physical power connections between them, would I get anything better out of 500Mbps devices?

Anyway, here are some basics on the setup - I have an outside home office with no practical Ethernet cabling option, 11-inch brick walls killing wireless, but with a secondary power circuit fed off the same mains supply as the main house. I bought a couple of cheap '200-rated' EoP devices with the plug-through, and set up the EoP connection from the broadband supply to the office into a small Netgear router supplying 100Mbit and 1000Mbit connections to devices in the office. Link over the EoP connection is always detected as 100Mbit by the router. Cat5e cabling everywhere, nothing over 5m.

Using speedtest.net to check broadband capacity, I get 38Mbps download and 9.5 Mbps upload at the modem, up to 36Mbps/9.5Mbps on wireless depending on signal strength, and typically no more than 18.5Mbps/9.5Mbps on the EoP connection.

Using iPerf, the link between the office and the house reports itself as supporting 18.9Mbps on network transfers (TCP), connections inside the home office on the cables reports 99.2Mbps (so near the theoretical maximum on the 100Mbps network). Using the EoP connections directly next to each other (separate mains plugs and with other devices such as main computer running) the EoP throughput is 40Mbps.

So iPerf and the observed limits on the broadband provider match almost exactly, indicating that my EoP link will support 18.9Mbps with this limit being due to the physical environment rather than the EoP devices. The limit in a near optimal working environment for the EoP devices (quality 172 of 200) is not much higher than 40Mbps.

Regarding ping times, I can't detect any differences (too small to notice). Also the throughput holds up even if someone is using a vacuum cleaner off an adjacent socket (so line noise isn't obviously a factor and I think these devices include some filtering).

The devices themselves have no obvious markings (bought them from eBuyer, product code 179960 discontinued) but the TP-Link diagnostic tool works with them and reports the following:

Vendor: TP-LINK
Firmware: INT6400-MAC-4-0-4011-00-3430-20090501-FINAL-C

I couldn't track down the actual chip sets (and to be honest didn't try very hard as these are quite old) but Atheros INT64000 looks like a good bet based on the firmware.

The diagnostic tool also shows a low-high rate range of 66-79 'widgets' (not sure that this is actually supposed to be Mbps but it should relate to the 200 'widgets' the device is rated for i.e. the line is providing about a third of the maximum capacity/quality). With the EoP Devices close to each other giving 40Mbps on Windows to Windows, the diagnostic utility reports the rate at 172 'widgets' out of a possible 200. The actual achieved computer-to-computer throughput for network exchanges appears to be about one quarter the number on the EoP devices (measured rating of 79 gave 18.5Mbps, measured rating of 172 gave 40.5Mbps).

One other point is that without configuring the security, these devices will connect to someone else's house down the street (and presumably vice versa) so make sure you configure them properly if you care at all about someone freely snooping on your home network.

Last edited by RobJDean185; 06-26-2013 at 10:18 AM. Reason: Various typoes and clarifications
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:25 PM   #20
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I just bought 2 pairs of the Zyxel Powerline 4211 mini-passthrough ones.

They worked great. I have the 50/25 FIOS service. My PC is located on a different circuit and I get 58 mbps on it using the powerline. My Blu-Ray player upstairs doesn't kick out speed but I can tell you that streaming Netflix HD picture was fantastic with no picture/sound or skipping issues.
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Old 08-18-2013, 03:14 PM   #21
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In case anyone is curious, I'm planning to purchase the following item Netgear Powerline 500 w/WIFI (probably from NewEgg) and will report my results: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833122526

My application is to be able to listen to streaming audio out in my barn (about 25 meters) from the house, but set up with electricity(circuit is thru a breaker box fed directly from the house.) Even a 10 Mbps connection would be adequate for my purposes.
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