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Old 01-08-2013, 05:59 PM   #376
IntelUser2000
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Kaveri is coming a year later from Richland, not 1-2 quarters. That puts its competition with Broadwell.

At the least Haswell should close up any gap left on the mobile side.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:19 PM   #377
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Kaveri is coming a year later from Richland, not 1-2 quarters. That puts its competition with Broadwell.

At the least Haswell should close up any gap left on the mobile side.
Not according to the presentation that AMD gave yesterday.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:22 PM   #378
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Not according to the presentation that AMD gave yesterday.
That instilled a bit more confidence in me for AMD. At least they're trying to launch it by the end of this year.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:25 PM   #379
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True.

But its weird that after the changes that the Haswell iGPU has, it is not being considered as the 4th gen iGPU. You commented on three or four things that make it different than the IVB iGPU's. I find it suspicious of Intel not to promote them, at least, I feel that the IVB iGPU was better promoted.

With those changes, it does seem like a nice competitor. Can't wait to see benchmarks of it. Just hate that the GT3 ain't on an LGA1150...
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:44 PM   #380
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Here is a question.
What happens if Intel manages to bring out a chip which is vastly superior to everything ARM has to offer? Both in terms of performance and power efficiency?
Would companies like Apple and Samsung drop their own CPUs and adapt Intel's?
because if they don't, they will be selling inferior products ( something Apple couldn't live with ) and if they do, they will be at the mercy of Intel for the rest of their lives.
Any thoughts?
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:53 PM   #381
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Well there's still cost, which you didn't mention. Possibly Intel's greatest weakness is with cost, rather than performance, perf/watt or power.

But if they did win on every front, like you suggested, then Intel wins. Period. I don't think there's any room for alternative hypotheses.

But cost is a major and often overlooked concern.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:05 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by GillyBillyDilly View Post
Here is a question.
What happens if Intel manages to bring out a chip which is vastly superior to everything ARM has to offer? Both in terms of performance and power efficiency?
Would companies like Apple and Samsung drop their own CPUs and adapt Intel's?
because if they don't, they will be selling inferior products ( something Apple couldn't live with ) and if they do, they will be at the mercy of Intel for the rest of their lives.
Any thoughts?
They can't. They are still playing catch-up. ARM chips aren't stopping improving, Tegra 4 was announced and The new SnapDragons also.
And then comes markets. ARM is every where. Intel is not.

Personally, the only reason I see ARM as limited in the PC space is OS support. Put Win8/Pro and Mac OS in an ARM, now what?

But sooner or later something will happen, and I like that. Its not boring anymore.

In a few years, maybe in 2014, will see Intel vs Nvidia vs AMD vs Samsung vs Qualcomm vs Apple vs Whatever else. Everyone is doing "cpu" and "gpu" now. We will get better products with all that competition. I think.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:08 PM   #383
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Just hate that the GT3 ain't on an LGA1150...
Agreed.

All things being equal having the option to go GT3 on LGA 1150 would be nice. My guess is that Intel feels desktop users will not pay the same premium laptop makers will.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:14 PM   #384
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They can't. They are still playing catch-up. ARM chips aren't stopping improving, Tegra 4 was announced and The new SnapDragons also.
And then comes markets. ARM is every where. Intel is not.

Personally, the only reason I see ARM as limited in the PC space is OS support. Put Win8/Pro and Mac OS in an ARM, now what?

But sooner or later something will happen, and I like that. Its not boring anymore.

In a few years, maybe in 2014, will see Intel vs Nvidia vs AMD vs Samsung vs Qualcomm vs Apple vs Whatever else. Everyone is doing "cpu" and "gpu" now. We will get better products with all that competition. I think.
Microsoft really needs to lift the restriction on desktop apps for WinRT. On xda there are people running putty, 7zip, and bochs no problem on their Surfaces once they managed to get those unsigned executable to run. I also believe you can run .net apps without recompile (at least that was my impression).
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:26 PM   #385
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Well there's still cost, which you didn't mention. Possibly Intel's greatest weakness is with cost, rather than performance, perf/watt or power.

But if they did win on every front, like you suggested, then Intel wins. Period. I don't think there's any room for alternative hypotheses.

But cost is a major and often overlooked concern.
Well, IF ( a big one of course ) they do pull a big rabbit out of their hat, they could afford to sell at low prices for a few years untel ARM is dead and buried, and then having regained their monopoly charge as they please.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:35 PM   #386
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They can't. They are still playing catch-up. ARM chips aren't stopping improving, Tegra 4 was announced and The new SnapDragons also.
And then comes markets. ARM is every where. Intel is not.

Personally, the only reason I see ARM as limited in the PC space is OS support. Put Win8/Pro and Mac OS in an ARM, now what?

But sooner or later something will happen, and I like that. Its not boring anymore.

In a few years, maybe in 2014, will see Intel vs Nvidia vs AMD vs Samsung vs Qualcomm vs Apple vs Whatever else. Everyone is doing "cpu" and "gpu" now. We will get better products with all that competition. I think.
Well, with Intel you never know. They might secretly have been working on some advanced tech like optical or something else. Wouldn't be too big a surprise if they did.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:39 PM   #387
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Well, IF ( a big one of course ) they do pull a big rabbit out of their hat, they could afford to sell at low prices for a few years untel ARM is dead and buried, and then having regained their monopoly charge as they please.
The EU and US would be all over them for anticompetitive practices.
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Old 01-08-2013, 07:44 PM   #388
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The EU and US would be all over them for anticompetitive practices.
They couldn't sue them for having superior products and selling them at a "reasonable" price.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:51 PM   #389
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Not according to the presentation that AMD gave yesterday.
Yep, just saw that. Chip companies rarely do this, they are probably really desperate.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:04 PM   #390
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Yep, just saw that. Chip companies rarely do this, they are probably really desperate.
Yea, I am not entirely sure what they are doing to be honest. While I think from a product perspective the roadmap is way better than what has been recently rumored, I am surprised Jaguar is going to be A4/A6-branded with Richland taking up A8 and A10.

Given their perennial inventory issues, my guess would have to be that Kaveri would come up even higher? Maybe they'll turn it up to A11 ?


Assuming Jaguar actually brings the performance, selling it as a mainstream chip is a clear win for AMD and OEMs. Money all around. But Richland seems much too short-lived to be worthwhile.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:06 PM   #391
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The EU and US would be all over them for anticompetitive practices.
Nothing anticompetitive in selling at low prices.
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Old 01-09-2013, 01:00 AM   #392
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Nothing anticompetitive in selling at low prices.
Wat.

Are you not familiar with predatory pricing?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robinso...0%93Patman_Act
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Old 01-09-2013, 02:25 AM   #393
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Well there's still cost, which you didn't mention. Possibly Intel's greatest weakness is with cost, rather than performance, perf/watt or power.

But if they did win on every front, like you suggested, then Intel wins. Period. I don't think there's any room for alternative hypotheses.

But cost is a major and often overlooked concern.
Thats pretty bad thinking . The cheapest haswell intel will produce will be the 2 core SoC SOIX chip at 7 watts . It carries the GT3 graphics. There is no law saying intel can not produce a 2 core lowpower chip that meets the requirement of that sector. Intel can sell the SOC haswell at any price over cost . and its a money maker in volumn sales . By going 2 cores and SoS along with SOIX intel allready showed it hand at IDF. This cheap was created for the TABLET market. Its not an accident . Intel can easily charge $10 dollars over its best comp and have the oems eating out of their hand. and make a lot of money doing . The Best part intel did it in plain site . They showed haswell running gt3 8 watts months ago . Talking about blinders
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Old 01-09-2013, 03:59 AM   #394
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Yep, just saw that. Chip companies rarely do this, they are probably really desperate.
Well, Kaveri was suppose to be a 2013 product right? There was no Richland before. Wouldn't AMD be supporting the APU's better if they put the FX chips on hold?

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But Richland seems much too short-lived to be worthwhile.
I hope they don't put much emphasis on Richland. Two or three chips total. They should focus on "next gen" steamroller and excavator AND consumer products.
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Old 01-09-2013, 04:13 AM   #395
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Richland now covers only A8 and A10 lines so AMD is not focusing on it much. It will be decently faster than Trinity in mobile sector(according to pcmar kand 3dmar11 benchmarks AMD gave). Kabini and Temash will cover the A4/A6 and below.
Richland needs to fill in the gap for only 1-2 quarters and then Kaveri will be launched in mobile sector,with much bigger jumps in CPU and GPU performance.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:02 AM   #396
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I completely "missed" that. Jaja
Looks like a good lineup overall.
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:23 AM   #397
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Yep, just saw that. Chip companies rarely do this, they are probably really desperate.
I'm not sure what's desperate about it, tbh. Richland is just a respin/deep bin sort of Trinity, as far as I can tell. They have only mentioned mobile chips, so I think they're just finding Trinity dies which can run at higher clocks at the same TDPs as their current range. Basically the same as what Intel is doing with their 13W i3s, except aiming for performance instead of power reduction (Kabini and Temash will cover the low power segment).
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Old 01-09-2013, 05:32 AM   #398
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^I think he ment Kaveri =P
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:30 AM   #399
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The act doesnt state in any way that you cant sell your products at low price to everyone. Also the act is US only.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:34 AM   #400
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Quote:
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Richland needs to fill in the gap for only 1-2 quarters and then Kaveri will be launched in mobile sector,with much bigger jumps in CPU and GPU performance.
Thats...a very optimistic prediction.
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