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Old 01-08-2013, 03:24 PM   #26
Grimbones
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Originally Posted by Red Storm View Post
If you're a fan of the old Bioware:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


If you're a fan of the new Bioware:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1
Why does mine go like this then?

ME2>ME1>ME3

I'm weird i guess.I also liked the characters in 2 more than 3 and definitely more than 1. 3's story just kind of devolved, and the ending definitely ruined everything about the series for me.

People should stop saying "bioware" is dead, though. The games were very good. SWTOR was very good. Just because they had some problems does not make the company terrible.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:28 PM   #27
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Anyone else feel like ME3 was written by a completely different person than ME 1&2? I'm not saying the game is bad but Shepard seems like a completely different person when you compare the dialogue from the first two games versus this one. Also, unlike the first two games, many of the side questions are not only arbitrary but completely petty as a way to shove characters into the game. Miranda is one of the most powerful biotics in the universe and managed to overcome multiple assassination attempts by the Illusive man's elite squads, but here she is asking Shepard to help with her sister?

Plus there are just other things that make no sense. I spent ME2 building my dream team and getting their loyalty. ME3 starts and the military is in charge of the Normandy and my entire team is gone? Why didn't the Illusive Man just destroy the Normandy while she was in dry dock if he was so pissed? He has obviously no problem with having his troops kill me on missions so obviously I'm not that important to him. Also, my new crew sucks. Compared to the last game they have paper thin personalities. I'm the savier of the human race and all the military could drum up is a muscle-head with an anger complex? ME2 left me at a high point and staged for the final chapter. With the exception of the new Normandy and a few reminders, ME3 takes away all of the prestige you earned from the first two games and expects you to rebuild for the third time ad-nauseum.

Screw the ending, I can't even even get past the first few hours of the game without getting beaten down by how much the plot/dialogue as degenereted from the last game. It's sad because ME3 is so good in other ways. I'm a story person, first and foremost. It's the reason I was able to happily sit through MGS4 even though it was 90% dialogue and the reason why I still feel ME1 is far superior to it's sequels.
Can't agree more. I played Shepard in a heroic altruistic manner, and by game 3 he was a total dick with no way to change this. Trust me, the ending was horrific though. I didn't even play through the directors cut ending... I gotta be honest though, whoever said the multiplayer was bad was trolling, it was pretty entertaining to me. Not every multiplayer has to be pvp, co-op can be very fun as well.

By the way, if you love stories, Bioshock, Red Dead Redemption...enough said.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #28
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I stopped caring about ME3 when I found out the difference between the three endings was they changed the color of the explosion.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:32 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Grimbones View Post
Why does mine go like this then?

ME2>ME1>ME3

I'm weird i guess.I also liked the characters in 2 more than 3 and definitely more than 1. 3's story just kind of devolved, and the ending definitely ruined everything about the series for me.

People should stop saying "bioware" is dead, though. The games were very good. SWTOR was very good. Just because they had some problems does not make the company terrible.
There are always exceptions.

No no, Bioware is long gone. The best example is Dragon Age 1 and Dragon Age 2. The first was made without EA interference, while the 2nd was more in line with what EA wanted.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:34 PM   #30
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....of yesteryear? it's not THAT old and there isnt THAT much difference between the 3's technology...
I just came off Far Cry 3, from MW3 from Dishonored from Crysis 2 with a couple of bouts of MW3, Trine 2\GP 2012

ME 1 is showing its age graphics wise.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:35 PM   #31
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I bought the game new when it was released. Have yet to start it. It's always the case with me.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:55 PM   #32
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I just came off Far Cry 3, from MW3 from Dishonored from Crysis 2 with a couple of bouts of MW3, Trine 2\GP 2012

ME 1 is showing its age graphics wise.
Yeah, it is. I got used to everything being photo-realistic. ME1 was right before that point, so you have the fuzzies going on everywhere.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:33 PM   #33
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Planet exploration in ME1 is when it gets real bad lol. Those textures are just abysmal. Otherwise I wasn't bothered by how it looks, but I felt like lighting could have used some work, I thought the Citadel and the Normandy at least were overly dark.

As for comparisons I think each game has its strengths. ME1 had a great 'frontier' feel to the exploration and I feel like Shepherd's responses were generally very well done. Additionally the sidequests were more in-depth, your introduction to Cerberus through Kahoku was memorable. But Normandy/Citadel had crappy annoying layouts, inventory management was real bad, combat was the worst of the three, and Mako controls were laughable. Also when I collected all those elements and discs and matiarch writings and dog tags and not a single thing happened I was pretty let down lol.

ME2 had the best characters and most ambitious character development. Mordin alone is magical lol. They also did a really excellent job of cohesively building the "rising action" leading to the "suicide mission", making for a great climax. Environments were top notch too; the inside of the Geth ship and Collector ships were intense, and the first time I stepped foot into Omega and Aria's guard said "You wanna talk? Talk to Aria" over that Afterlife theme was so immersive to me. I wish "loyalty" was more dynamic rather than simply an "on/off" switch, but the missions were generally good; I'll never forget how forboding the atmosphere was on Jacob's father's planet. ME2 also seemed really intent on making Shep into a "badass" in everyday situations, just some of the animations and conversation responses felt out of character. Finally combat while improved was still clunky.

ME3 I thought had a lot of amazing moments (Mordin's death, Legion's 'death', Geth and Quarian unity, Liara's attachment to Shep). But I mirrored Shep's frustration at being stuck playing Diplomat/Politician (admittedly that's intentional) and something about gathering these groups together just didn't 'click', it felt more tangential than essential. In a vacuum they were great, but didn't piece together quite as well as I think they could have. Combat was probably the best of the three because cover was finally at a workable state of fluidity and you were no longer bound to such obnoxious weapon proficiency penalties/restrictions. I think Shep's writing improved from ME2, making him/her more dynamic and human again. I wish your past crew from ME2 would have played a bigger role and that we'd gotten to see a bit more of a bridge between 2 and 3 in 3's exposition, as it felt kind of sudden going from "Stopped the Collectors, saved everybody" to "incarcerated" and accompanied by this "James" guy.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #34
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I noticed that too..big time. The conversations are all "sit and listen"...you can't control responses. They even took away the immensity of the Citadel by making you travel via elevator with 5 buttons on it.

Anyway, I'm going to switch to Far Cry 3. Anyone start that yet?
I've already put 10 hours into FC3 and according to the completion chart I'm just ~10% into the PLOT, let alone side quests.

Thus far, I agree with pretty much everyone that it epitomizes AWESOME. The story (what I've seen of it) is good, the voice acting is excellent, the setting's not exactly.. heheheh... yeah you do not buy this game for realism. But it's more than good enough to suspend disbelief!

One thing I'd like to point out is that it's not really a "survival" game like STALKER. Your abilities are strong out almost straight out of the gate even on the highest difficulty, and they only get stronger. But it's OK, as the AI (on the hardest difficulty at least) provides a legitimate challenge and there's so much to explore on the Island it's not even funny. And whoever came up with hang-gliders is a freaking genius.

I can safely say Far Cry 3 is easily in my top 5 games on the basis of sheer "fun". It's not perfect, but it's pretty close. 9.5/10 easy.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #35
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I've already put 10 hours into FC3 and according to the completion chart I'm just ~10% into the PLOT, let alone side quests.

Thus far, I agree with pretty much everyone that it epitomizes AWESOME. The story (what I've seen of it) is good, the voice acting is excellent, the setting's not exactly.. heheheh... yeah you do not buy this game for realism. But it's more than good enough to suspend disbelief!

One thing I'd like to point out is that it's not really a "survival" game like STALKER. Your abilities are strong out almost straight out of the gate even on the highest difficulty, and they only get stronger. But it's OK, as the AI (on the hardest difficulty at least) provides a legitimate challenge and there's so much to explore on the Island it's not even funny. And whoever came up with hang-gliders is a freaking genius.

I can safely say Far Cry 3 is easily in my top 5 games on the basis of sheer "fun". It's not perfect, but it's pretty close. 9.5/10 easy.
Did you play FC2? It had nothing to do with the first one, but it was a fascinating story and I believe it also had hang gliders.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #36
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Did you play FC2? It had nothing to do with the first one, but it was a fascinating story and I believe it also had hang gliders.
Nope, FC3 is my first foray into the franchise. But I've heard great things about FC2 as well, so I may pick that up for cheap sometime.

I will say the one immersion breaking issue for me is the toughness of the animals on the highest difficulty. I'm sorry, but if I put 4 .308s into a tiger it should not keep charging.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:03 PM   #37
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Why does mine go like this then?

ME2>ME1>ME3

I'm weird i guess.I also liked the characters in 2 more than 3 and definitely more than 1. 3's story just kind of devolved, and the ending definitely ruined everything about the series for me.
I'm the same with ME2 being by far my favorite of the series. It fixed all the problems of the first one (cookie cutter pre-fab bases on planets, combat, inventory, etc.) and had a ton of interesting characters. Looking back, the only negative it had was that the combat was a little too simplified but I had a blast playing through and must have beaten it 4 or 5 times.

ME1 vs. ME3 is toss up for me. ME1 suffers from age and the problems that were later fixed in ME2. ME3 is a lot more polished game but the terrible conclusion sucked up all the desire I had to play a Mass Effect game again. To decide on the better game I'd have to play through ME3 which is something I don't want to do.

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People should stop saying "bioware" is dead, though. The games were very good. SWTOR was very good. Just because they had some problems does not make the company terrible.
I'm sure people are exagerating when they say stuff like "bioware is dead" or "I'll never buy another bioware game again after this." If Dragon Age 3 turns out to be awesome they'll buy it. However I do think that like me alot of people have had their faith shaken in bioware to produce consistently excellent products.

I ended up preodering both DA2 and ME3 digital deluxe edition. After those dissapointments, I'll be holding off preordering the next bioware games and instead wait until I've read some reviews and possibly wait until the "honeymoon" period is over. A lot of reviewers gave DA2 8/10+ scores but later on released it was a rather mediocre game and was more like a 6/10. I too remember some excitement as I played through DA2 and would've said at the time that it was pretty good but as I looked back I could see how mediocre it was and it's something I never want to play through again.
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:54 PM   #38
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If you're a fan of the old Bioware:

ME1 > ME2 > ME3


If you're a fan of the new Bioware:

ME3 > ME2 > ME1
I've been a fan of BioWare since Knights of the Old Republic. For me it's:

Mass Effect 2>Dragon Age Origins>Mass Effect 3>Knights of the Old Republic>Dragon Age II>Mass Effect 1.

Which is not to say that Mass Effect 1 is a bad game (I don't consider Dragon Age II a bad game either). They're all good games, that's just how I would rank them.

I really need to get around to playing the Baldur's Gate series, I'm sure the list would look different then...

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I noticed that too..big time. The conversations are all "sit and listen"...you can't control responses. They even took away the immensity of the Citadel by making you travel via elevator with 5 buttons on it.
Mass Effect has always had limited conversation options. They just masked it by making several options that all lead to Shepard saying the same thing. Mass Effect 1 had this all over it. I like not hiding it better, because it allows for more fluid cinematic direction and choreography.

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Erm... I like the idea that Shepard was indoctrinated... which makes the endings pretty amazing.
If BioWare had actually gone with the idea of Shepard being indoctrinated, fighting it off, then finishing the story properly, it would have been pretty amazing. As it is, though, assuming Shepard is indoctrinated means the entire ending was just a dream, and ending with "it was just a dream" is straight out of the hack writer's handbook. I like what Jeremy Jahns said about it in his ME3 ending discussion video: "I think [the idea] is really sad. That's people going 'Well maybe it was just all a dream...' 'You mean you would rather have a dream that didn't happen rather than have the ending you did have be fact?' 'Uh, yes' That doesn't depress anyone else?"

As it stands, there is very, very little chance of the "indoctrination theory' being true going forward. The Prothean VI from Thessia was able to scan Shepard and confirm he was not indoctrinated close to the end, and indoctrination is a rather long process. It's clearly not what BioWare intended, or they would have gone with it in the extended cut.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:22 PM   #39
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I'm the same with ME2 being by far my favorite of the series. It fixed all the problems of the first one (cookie cutter pre-fab bases on planets, combat, inventory, etc.) and had a ton of interesting characters. Looking back, the only negative it had was that the combat was a little too simplified but I had a blast playing through and must have beaten it 4 or 5 times.

ME1 vs. ME3 is toss up for me. ME1 suffers from age and the problems that were later fixed in ME2. ME3 is a lot more polished game but the terrible conclusion sucked up all the desire I had to play a Mass Effect game again. To decide on the better game I'd have to play through ME3 which is something I don't want to do.



I'm sure people are exagerating when they say stuff like "bioware is dead" or "I'll never buy another bioware game again after this." If Dragon Age 3 turns out to be awesome they'll buy it. However I do think that like me alot of people have had their faith shaken in bioware to produce consistently excellent products.

I ended up preodering both DA2 and ME3 digital deluxe edition. After those dissapointments, I'll be holding off preordering the next bioware games and instead wait until I've read some reviews and possibly wait until the "honeymoon" period is over. A lot of reviewers gave DA2 8/10+ scores but later on released it was a rather mediocre game and was more like a 6/10. I too remember some excitement as I played through DA2 and would've said at the time that it was pretty good but as I looked back I could see how mediocre it was and it's something I never want to play through again.
They're certainly not dead, but I can see their future pre-orders taking a HUGE hit.
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:27 PM   #40
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Yeah. I didn't hate ME3 or DAII, but I'm probably not going to preorder the next game in either series. ME2 and ME3 are the only games I preordered in the first place.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:23 PM   #41
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I thought ME 1 was the weakest because it really did just feel old, in some ways like a previous generation console game. Not necessarily graphically but it just felt old. ME2 was much fresher, and ME3 just improved upon that.

As an RPG fan, a person who loves Fallout, mass effect, I hated DA2 and only gave it about 4-5 hours. Felt rushed, ugly, stupid and crappy. I tried DA Origins after and hated that crap, too. 2001-type graphics (trees are laughable), too many party members to care about, endless dialog. I actually believe, though, DA2 was so bad it has permanently sullied the franchise for me, since I know at least three people who said DA O was the best RPG they've played.
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Old 01-09-2013, 12:35 AM   #42
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ME3 was one of the most anticipated games ever for me, and the most disappointing. Even apart from the horrible ending (I refuse to play the modified ending, you only get one chance to tie up a franchise) I thought the entire game was basically just a rehash of the second game, except instead of recruiting a party, you were recruiting races. BTW, both the founders of Bioware have retired I believe, so Bioware is only a name now in all respects. That said, if there is a DA3, I would probably play it, but would only purchase after it goes down at least 50% in price. No more pre-purchases or paying full price.
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:14 AM   #43
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Why does mine go like this then?

ME2>ME1>ME3

I'm weird i guess.I also liked the characters in 2 more than 3 and definitely more than 1. 3's story just kind of devolved, and the ending definitely ruined everything about the series for me.

People should stop saying "bioware" is dead, though. The games were very good. SWTOR was very good. Just because they had some problems does not make the company terrible.
id say ditto but im not as cynical
i adored me2,i mean i thought it was epic much more refined than the 1st,fringing on cinema
3 was ok too, wasnt as good, wasnt bad or even nearing it, ya ending was weird but i didnt see it til 50hrs after
and ppl knock the multi, i dunno if they ever tried, its fun doing gold runs, i spent maybve 60 hrs on multi alone
few series have even neared the sexiness of ME
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Old 01-09-2013, 06:16 AM   #44
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btw i paid $60 for the ghetto version
i dont have alot of mone7(any) abnd i have no regrets
got me thru last march nicely and i just soaked it in
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Old 01-09-2013, 08:25 AM   #45
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id say ditto but im not as cynical
i adored me2,i mean i thought it was epic much more refined than the 1st,fringing on cinema
3 was ok too, wasnt as good, wasnt bad or even nearing it, ya ending was weird but i didnt see it til 50hrs after
and ppl knock the multi, i dunno if they ever tried, its fun doing gold runs, i spent maybve 60 hrs on multi alone
few series have even neared the sexiness of ME
Multiplayer was OK. It just seemed tacked on somehow after 2 single player games. I also felt I was being forced to play it to try to get a better ending, which sort of took away from the immersion of the SP campaign. I played MP just enough to get my Galactic Readiness maxxed, and the ending still sucked.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:18 AM   #46
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Multiplayer was OK. It just seemed tacked on somehow after 2 single player games. I also felt I was being forced to play it to try to get a better ending, which sort of took away from the immersion of the SP campaign. I played MP just enough to get my Galactic Readiness maxxed, and the ending still sucked.
Exactly---the MP seemed like a dick from EA walked into Bioware's office and said "Guys...you know what we like to see in games these days? Multiplayer. If you could work weekends for the next few weeks to get that done, that'd be great...."
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:54 AM   #47
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Multiplayer was OK. It just seemed tacked on somehow after 2 single player games. I also felt I was being forced to play it to try to get a better ending, which sort of took away from the immersion of the SP campaign. I played MP just enough to get my Galactic Readiness maxxed, and the ending still sucked.
Well after the 3 DLC's and screwing up two to three side missions (Eden Prime Data and one of the Omega side quests (not the couch, I found that one). I came out only 8 "suport units" from the 4k needed for the "Shepard breathes" scene. All 1.5 seconds of it. Considering that A. ) That's all it is and B.) it only happens with one choice. It is more like a Easter egg than anything else. The tie in to the single player really is so people can power through the game. Probably can finish it in 12 hours and + 4 hours of MP, and get the real endings. Otherwise the 20-25 to get the same point without it and 30-34 to finish all the regular ME3 Single player content.

It is obvious that Shepard breathing is more "monster horror movie ending" then actual ending. Shepards story is over and the next game or trilogy will move on as though He/She died on the citadel.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:14 AM   #48
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IIIRC the war asset count needed for the "fully unlocked" endings was reduced to 3100 with a patch some months ago. I think it may have been 4000 upon release however.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:25 AM   #49
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IIIRC the war asset count needed for the "fully unlocked" endings was reduced to 3100 with a patch some months ago. I think it may have been 4000 upon release however.
I thought that number was to succeed and not the long cut on the red choice.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:33 AM   #50
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The simple fact that an arbitrary number decided what ending you get is beyond stupid in what's supposed to be a story driven game.
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