Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > CPUs and Overclocking

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2013, 11:36 PM   #501
Nemesis 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piesquared View Post
Kitguru charted some extrapolations from performance claims by intel and AMD.



http://www.kitguru.net/components/gr...ance-analysed/

Richland would still have a healthy performance lead over haswell, provided the numbers are accurate. I assume AMD's numbers are since they show actual scores with their performance claims. Has intel given any performance numbers to back up it's 2x increase over ivy bridge? Couldn't find.
deleted I keep for getting A small part of this forum only cares about GPU performance Cpu doesn't matter . SO this was gpu only Why didn't kit include the GT3 numbers in haswell I mean the 55 watt mobile haswell with G3 isn't going to be 30% increase. thats for low wattage I would expect to see closer to 100% if not more He gives haswell a 15% gain that pure BS.

Last edited by Nemesis 1; 01-08-2013 at 12:24 AM.
Nemesis 1 is offline  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #502
Elixer
Diamond Member
 
Elixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3,596
Default

Unless I missed it someplace, I wonder just when AMD will start doing PCIe 3.x ?
Surely the new crop of CPUs will offer this ?
__________________
The truth is incontrovertible, malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end; there it is.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
Elixer is offline  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:46 PM   #503
Gideon
Member
 
Gideon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 116
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcoopernz View Post
The score for the 2012 AMD A10-4600M on the PCMark 7 Overall benchmark was 1965 and the 2012 AMD A8-4555M was 1650, while the “Richland” 2013 AMD A10-5750M was 2175 and the 2013 AMD A8-5545M was 1850

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases..._new_apus.aspx
The thing that really bothers me about these AMD tests is that they do not mention what storage was used, yet PCMark total score is heavily influenced by storage (look Llano HDD vs SSD)



Especially as they did mention a HDD in the battery life test (and only there). Excuse me for being so paranoid but AMD marketing was so damn notorious about Bulldozer that it wouldn't surprise me if they resorted to HDD -> SDD shenanigans when comparing Trinity -> Richland platform performance (I have no trouble believing Jaguar blows Bobcat away).
Gideon is online now  
Old 01-07-2013, 11:52 PM   #504
dbcoopernz
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 52
Default

Given the low scores for all platforms, one might assume that all used HDD's?
dbcoopernz is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:05 AM   #505
piesquared
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozentundra123456 View Post
By the article's own admission, these are very speculative numbers based on each manufacturer's "best case" estimate. Lets not get too excited until we see real numbers by independent reviewers over a wide range of games.

Even using these projected best case numbers, one game is totally unplayable, and I would expect other demanding current and future games would be unplayable as well. Not to mention that by then the 8000 series cards will be out and hopefully will show a performance increase as well. So these igps will still trail low/mid range discrete cards by a huge amount. I just cant get excited about APUs in the desktop. Perhaps the lower power chips in tablets will be quite interesting though.

Edit: Based on the experience with my current Acer A100, I would never consider another Android tablet. I would only consider x86 running Windows, or (gasp) Apple.
Yep, I noted that they were claims from both manufacturers. But as the article suggests, even if it were best case against worst case, haswell would still be behind by a large margin. I just found it interesting because the general consensus seemed to be that haswell was going to dominate gaming. Richland appears be a quite potent chip and should be capable of fairly demanding game settings and resolution.
piesquared is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:16 AM   #506
Nemesis 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,379
Default

Ya me to I was just looking at Anand benches and that alot of meat to make up but SB and IB both work on the desk for what i want gaming is discrete only for me .
Nemesis 1 is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:26 AM   #507
Nemesis 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,379
Default

The richland is unchanged as far as cores go were did the GPU speed come from ?
Nemesis 1 is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:30 AM   #508
Nemesis 1
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piesquared View Post
Yep, I noted that they were claims from both manufacturers. But as the article suggests, even if it were best case against worst case, haswell would still be behind by a large margin. I just found it interesting because the general consensus seemed to be that haswell was going to dominate gaming. Richland appears be a quite potent chip and should be capable of fairly demanding game settings and resolution.
If you look Haswell is only showing 15% increase in performance on Igpu . Intel gave way better numbers than that . So no he didn't go by what intel said . Also didn't AT do a recent bench mark between these 2 and Intel made up alot of ground threw drivers The 55watt mobile with GT3 will be closer to 100% increase
Nemesis 1 is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 12:40 AM   #509
piesquared
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemesis 1 View Post
If you look Haswell is only showing 15% increase in performance on Igpu . Intel gave way better numbers than that . So no he didn't go by what intel said . Also didn't AT do a recent bench mark between these 2 and Intel made up alot of ground threw drivers The 55watt mobile with GT3 will be closer to 100% increase
The chart shows a 100% increase for GT3 over hd4000.
piesquared is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 03:30 AM   #510
Abwx
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piesquared View Post
The chart shows a 100% increase for GT3 over hd4000.
Yet , the same guy tried to explain us how to convert a performance
delta into a %age difference...

More seriously , i think that his aim is deliberate thread crapping.
Abwx is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:06 AM   #511
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 615
Default

from my readings GF have a better gatefirst process @28nm then they did @32. That could account for a bigger then expected performance difference. Most people have assumed not much of a bump from process.
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:24 AM   #512
Abwx
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmydamnation View Post
from my readings GF have a better gatefirst process @28nm then they did @32. That could account for a bigger then expected performance difference. Most people have assumed not much of a bump from process.
Process is not all , just give credit to whom it is due , AMD
announced better perfs/watt thanks to their automated design ,
seems that it did help them substancially given their limited
human ressources and they ultimately delivered the said promise....






http://technewspedia.com/the-new-mic...d-steamroller/
Abwx is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:29 AM   #513
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 615
Default

i said larger then expected, I didn't say it was only process. But if you consider that bulldozer released on 12oct 2011 , piledriver released in may 2012 and now richland is "shipping to oems" thats quite a perf bump for 15 months.
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:39 AM   #514
MightyMalus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Default

To Nemesis: HSW iGPU's won't be that high performant. It will surpass Trinity's by very little.
Check the Haswell thread to see what I wrote, and help, if you can.


But, Into more important matters, anyone else noticed that AMD tested all the APU's with less than suggested RAM frequencies? I see room for improvements, worth while improvements.
MightyMalus is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:45 AM   #515
dbcoopernz
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 52
Default

Maybe they've improved their RAM controller?
dbcoopernz is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:49 AM   #516
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 615
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcoopernz View Post
Maybe they've improved their RAM controller?
theres nothing wrong with the memory controller in terms of throughput ( you cant push memory as hard as you can on intel). you will also notice how increasing NB freq has almost 0 performance increase. You can also see from GPU compute that the GPU can just about reach max theoretical throughput.

your looking at the wrong number in AIDA if you want to see the major screw up the memory system, unless you know of workloads that need more then 15gb/s of memory throughput for a single core.

Last edited by itsmydamnation; 01-08-2013 at 05:01 AM.
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:51 AM   #517
Abwx
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,803
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmydamnation View Post
i said larger then expected, I didn't say it was only process. But if you consider that bulldozer released on 12oct 2011 , piledriver released in may 2012 and now richland is "shipping to oems" thats quite a perf bump for 15 months.
That s likely due to their eager adoption of automated design tools ,
a risky move but they had no choice given their shrinking workforce.
Abwx is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 04:59 AM   #518
MightyMalus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Default

I just wish they should have tested the APU's with their stock max RAM frequencies.
MightyMalus is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:05 AM   #519
mikk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 948
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by piesquared View Post
Kitguru charted some extrapolations from performance claims by intel and AMD.



http://www.kitguru.net/components/gr...ance-analysed/

Richland would still have a healthy performance lead over haswell, provided the numbers are accurate. I assume AMD's numbers are since they show actual scores with their performance claims. Has intel given any performance numbers to back up it's 2x increase over ivy bridge? Couldn't find.


This chart is nonsense. HSW GT3 is a mobile only chip and comparing a mobile chip against desktop chips is plain stupid. If you compare mobile vs mobile you will realize that (the higher TDP versions) HSW GT3 should have the upper hand this year. And these benches also are cherry picked by kitguru. 5800k is less than 2x to 3770k and not more than 2x.
mikk is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:22 AM   #520
MightyMalus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Default

IVB HD4000 Peak performance is probably 294.4GFlops. (16*8*2*1.150MHz = 294.4GFlops)
HSW HD4600 Peak performance is probably 384GFlops. (20*8*2*1.200MHz = 384GFlops)

About a 30% increase. Obviously this is comparing the desktop GT2 iGPU's.

I expect the GT3 to be as performant as the GT2 on the desktop.
(40*8*2*600MHz = 384GFlops)

But surely out of the league of anything Richland, let alone Kaveri. Will have to see how it does against Kabini actually. If Kabini shows near performances of Trinity or slightly higher, <5%, in gaming and entertainment, HSW will have some competition for sure. And Atom will be of no use, on tablets or entertainment.

Doesn't really look bad for AMD. I think.
MightyMalus is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:25 AM   #521
mikk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Germany
Posts: 948
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMalus View Post
I expect the GT3 to be as performant as the GT2 on the desktop.
(40*8*2*600MHz = 384GFlops)

Nonsense. Even GT2 mobile is faster than GT2 desktop.
mikk is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 06:28 AM   #522
inf64
Platinum Member
 
inf64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,059
Default

It actually looks much better than 2012 looked. I'm still surprised how well Kabini(Jaguar) performs. It's a tiny core but packs so much punch that it's crazy. It does it all while staying in the same or lower TDP bracket as Brazos,quite an achievement from perf./watt POV.
__________________
ShintaiDK:"There will be no APU in PS4 and Xbox720."
ShintaiDK:"No quadchannel either.[in Kaveri]"
CHADBOGA:"Because he[OBR] is a great man."
inf64 is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:16 AM   #523
krumme
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,216
Default

@inf64

Yes the outlook is better, but that doesnt say so much

Richland is a wellcome surprise, but i dont think it matter at all for the business, as its big die sold for low-mid prices. To what degree, does AMD still have to "support" GF? - the wsa is still dark and clouds all perpectives ? - we dont know anything. I fail to see the purpose of this product.

Kabine will sell like hotcakes especially on the emerging markets, exactly like Brazos, because Haswell is another price bracket, but its still low profit market.

The performance of Temash compared to the new Atoms will be very decisive for AMD profit in this year. Temash needs to have a performance edge, because Atom is going to be small, cheap and geared for very low power.
krumme is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:18 AM   #524
MightyMalus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikk View Post
Nonsense. Even GT2 mobile is faster than GT2 desktop.
Well, if the GT3 does in fact have 40EU's. I don't see it going at the same speeds of the desktop part.

But its true what you said, should have posted numbers tho, you know, proof.

But I got it, don't worry!

The i7 3770K has a max turbo of 1150MHz, "Performance iGPU".
The i7 3940XM has a max turbo of 1350MHz, "Performance iGPU".

Which makes my numbers, Desktop wise, correct.

So, IVB HD4000 on a 3940XM has 345.6GFlops.
(16*8*2*1.350MHz = 345.6GFlops)

The 7660G has 380.9GFlops.(Trinity Notebook APU)
The 7660D has 614.4GFlops.(Trinity Desktop APU)

"HSW HD4600 Peak performance is probably 384GFlops.
(20*8*2*1.200MHz = 384GFlops)" Fits with the 30% claim increase.

Right from the go, the HD4600 DESKTOP iGPU is a tiny bit faster than a old Notebook iGPU!

Now, best case scenario as said by Intel, the GT3 will provide a x2 over a notebook GT2. Taking the best of the best extreme i7 iGPU and doubling it, gives us 691.2Gfops.

Which would make the theoretically 40EU GT3...
(40*8*2*1.080MHz = 691.2Gflops)

I honestly don't see how the GT3 on mobile is suppose to be 80% better than its own current generation desktop version.
That also means that AMD would have to make a +80% improvement JUST to be "this" GT3's equal.
Nonsense. Why would Intel skip it on the desktop? That would be insane!
I think GT3 is such a secret because its not competitive at all. Where is the info?

AMD got this!

Last edited by MightyMalus; 01-08-2013 at 07:32 AM.
MightyMalus is offline  
Old 01-08-2013, 07:49 AM   #525
Zor Prime
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 180
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMalus View Post

I think GT3 is such a secret because its not competitive at all. Where is the info?
Well, the Intel engineer on Reddit recently did mention that he thinks if anyone is looking for a huge GFX jump you're going to want to wait for Broadwell.
__________________
Montani Semper Liberi
Zor Prime is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.