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Old 01-07-2013, 04:45 PM   #101
taltamir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
That has the making of an epic conspiracy theory article on S/A

"Intel: POE (Planned Obsolescence Engineering) Behind Switch to TIM-Based CPU Packaging!"

You know conspiracies are real and everyday occurrence right? Oftentimes result in criminal cases and proven in court.. intel had to pay billions in fines for being found guilty of conspiring with distributors to lock out competitors (AMD). The ram cartels were convicted of price fixing such that all 5 established companies sold their product at a loss to bankrupt RAMBUS (the newcomer underdog). Madolf ran a massive ponzi scheme. Enron stole employees 401k monies. Tabacco companies spent decades falsifying data to prevent proving the link between smoking and cancer. Some wealthy merchants and land owners in the colonies conspired to overthrow the rule of the British monarchy (also known as the USA founding fathers). etc etc etc etc etc etc.

There are CRAZY conspiracy theories out there concocted by ignorant morons who make up nonsense but the existence of such does not mean that conspiracies cannot exist.

Planned obsolescence is a fact of life occurring in a huge amount of businesses. Simply put, businesses that do not incorporate planned obsolescence are ALWAYS bankrupted and absorbed by their competitors who do.

I remember back when I was a kid we would be Gali branded shoes... each shoe was used by me, then my younger brother, then youngest brother, then given to donation still as good as the day it was bought.

Went bankrupt when had to compete with good looking and cheap shoes from american shoe maker companies. Got bought over by... either nike or adidas. Any shoe they made after the buyout lasted under 1 year before it was in tatters, just like those made by their prior competitors (they were still different brands but now they were all the same company)
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Last edited by taltamir; 01-07-2013 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:52 PM   #102
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Smaller die to for the heat sink to remove the heat .
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #103
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I thought my previous comment about the TIM in the chip drying up causing heating issues was more of a realistic situation then a conspiracy.

Might be years before such complications happen,if they do but still something to think about that can happen but i think in the end intel will come back to their senses and go back to their previous cpu packing.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:17 PM   #104
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It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. It seems they used the TIM to simply limit the thermal performance of the chip. Hopefully the 6 core Ivy-E chips use solder. I'm drooling over the idea of a 4.8ghz, 60-70c Ivy with 6 cores. Dreaming maybe...
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:24 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by skipsneeky2 View Post
I thought my previous comment about the TIM in the chip drying up causing heating issues was more of a realistic situation then a conspiracy.
It is a realistic scenario.
I believe idoncare was making the point that your prediction was so plausible that it could potentially fuel a conspiracy theory.
The conspiracy theory would be to say that intel has engineers whose job is to insert planned obsolescence into products rather then it being an unintended mistake on their part.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:28 PM   #106
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intel are going to artificially stimulate the CPU market now the desktops are in decline.

Make the CPU's burn twice as bright for half as long.
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Old 01-07-2013, 05:37 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Fx1 View Post
intel are going to artificially stimulate the CPU market now the desktops are in decline.

Make the CPU's burn twice as bright for half as long.
Desktops are not in decline, they are the largest seller.
However, mobile devices yearly sales are currently GROWING at a faster rate (while being much smaller figure overall).
Furthermore, if you SUM all the mobile devices (laptops, tablets, netbooks, and smartphones) you get an aggregate figure larger then that of desktops. (similarly as to how people often sum up the PS3, xbox360, and wii to get a larger figure than PC sales despite the fact that the PC has more in common with the xbox360 then either the PS3 or the wii).

Some analysts who were dropped on their head as babies have thus extrapolated (completely ignoring market saturation or the fact that you should not sum disparate devices such as laptops and phones) that this growth rate will continue infinitely and thus eventually mobile devices will outsell desktops...

And for some reason too many suits at the top of some companies are eating this nonsense up
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Last edited by taltamir; 01-07-2013 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:03 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
Desktops are not in decline, they are the largest seller.
5 years ago maybe. Last I saw desktops were like 15-20% of Intel's sales.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:18 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taltamir View Post
Desktops are not in decline, they are the largest seller.
However, mobile devices yearly sales are currently GROWING at a faster rate (while being much smaller figure overall).
Furthermore, if you SUM all the mobile devices (laptops, tablets, netbooks, and smartphones) you get an aggregate figure larger then that of desktops. (similarly as to how people often sum up the PS3, xbox360, and wii to get a larger figure than PC sales despite the fact that the PC has more in common with the xbox360 then either the PS3 or the wii).

Some analysts who were dropped on their head as babies have thus extrapolated (completely ignoring market saturation or the fact that you should not sum disparate devices such as laptops and phones) that this growth rate will continue infinitely and thus eventually mobile devices will outsell desktops...

And for some reason too many suits at the top of some companies are eating this nonsense up
Oh my... Where would they get the resources for that?! How do we sustain an infinite population?!

And actually laptop sales eclipsed desktop awhile ago. 2008 in fact:http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...l-still-reign/

People like mobile computing more.

Last edited by Haserath; 01-07-2013 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:03 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by vailr View Post
There was a time when AMD CPU's could use the same CPU socket and motherboard as originally designed for Intel's Pentium CPU.
Well, maybe AMD could make some updated 28 nm lowered-voltage socket 1366 compatible CPU's, if Intel is too focused on their crispy trigate CPU "innovation" to bother with. Combine with updated PCIe 3.0 & USB 3.0 support in a new revised "x58-A" chipset motherboard. A bios update could allow the lower powered (and cooler running) AMD CPU to work in existing x58 chipset boards, but you just wouldn't get the PCIe 3.0 or USB 3.0 when used in those boards.

Anyhow, planar transistor designs will still be around for a long time yet. Especially if Intel doesn't plan on licensing their trigate transistor patents to competitors, such as AMD, nVidia, Qualcomm and others.
NO thats not going to happen. I new they used the slots I didn't know they used the same socket.You do know that AMD reversed engineered Intel way back when thats what set intel on fire , They came out of the agreement with there own chipsets . Intel didn't want AMD using its chipset either. I can't blame intel . It was IBM that caused the problem to start with intel invented X86 AMD had nothing to do with it . The So called Wintel thing is a joke . MS has worked hard against intel . Like when intel was straying away from X86 . AMD get credit for AMD 64 but MS did most the work. When its all over maybe sooner than latter MS will be a company that lived and died . In a 65 year span. So those people that call X86 blotted Its AMD you have to thank Intel wanted to go EPIC long ago . Basicly were intel is heading today . This time tho Intel had the answer in AVX . That vec prefix is really a killer as its software and hardware Intel only has to share the instruction set with AMD . NO software no hardware . The vec prefix is an intel only exclusive as it only works fully on intel hardware and software. AVX works well with floatpoint units . AVX II thats were vec prefix really needs intels exclusive hardware and software. Floating point unit doesn't do much for AMD in AVXII. Why would intel license itt 3d chips to the IBM alliance . They already did the we have that to. Intel isn't a fab for hire . Had AMD teamed up with NV this would be a differant game now . But the crimnal in charge of AMD was having no part of that .

Last edited by Nemesis 1; 01-07-2013 at 09:26 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:32 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by moonbogg View Post
It doesn't have to be a conspiracy. It seems they used the TIM to simply limit the thermal performance of the chip. Hopefully the 6 core Ivy-E chips use solder. I'm drooling over the idea of a 4.8ghz, 60-70c Ivy with 6 cores. Dreaming maybe...
I see that as being easily achieved. Your talking really mature silicon when the server chips arrive. Look at IB its down to 10 watts . So ya I think you workstation guys are going to get great chips . Even tho us on lowly haswells will be kicking IB ass in gaming and any task that are AVX II compiled
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:37 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Zardnok View Post
Intel using paste should make it easier to delid than the old chips that required heating up the solder with a torch to pop the cap. I plan on going water any way with my Ivy build, but I don't know if I have the cajones to pop the cap on my new $350 cpu. I have done it on older chips in the past and I have lapped most all of my CPUs. I will see what sort of temp issues I have first I suppose. I am a tad concerned to know they use TIM instead of solder though. Especially since they likely use the cheapest TIM they could find. I expect there to be issues down the road with drying and cracking. It would be nice if they offered the K-version chips with the option of soldered IHS. It would be worth a $10 premium even IMO.
I will do it for ya . It will cost a $100 tho . I need to machine both the top of the lid and the bottom . Your heatsink will set right on the die and tim . I use the lid only to keep the water block from rocking on the die.The 100dollars is the machine shops . I don't make a dime , Thats what it cost me.

Last edited by Nemesis 1; 01-07-2013 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:55 PM   #113
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I see that as being easily achieved. Your talking really mature silicon when the server chips arrive. Look at IB its down to 10 watts . So ya I think you workstation guys are going to get great chips . Even tho us on lowly haswells will be kicking IB ass in gaming and any task that are AVX II compiled
Whatever games best is the direction ill go. Either way I'm looking forward to it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:10 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by Haserath View Post
Oh my... Where would they get the resources for that?! How do we sustain an infinite population?!

And actually laptop sales eclipsed desktop awhile ago. 2008 in fact:http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...l-still-reign/

People like mobile computing more.
For all that is holy please follow the links to the original article. According to this very article from inquisitr its merely a reprint of a slashgear article who itself proclaims to be a reprint of an article from techcrunch. Techcrunch does not admit to having done any reprints, their only citation is that their data came from http://www.forrester.com/home
Which apparently requires money before they actually let you access any data. So techcrunch sources are secret, great.

Now, are those percent figures in units sold or dollar value?

Where did forrester get the data? A big OEM? Becauise that means that the charts exclude whitebox sales which articles I have seen on the issue claim account for over 50% of the market (thus, more than all OEMs combined) and self assembled computers. whiteboxes and self assembly are near exclusively desktop (there are very few and failed attempts at making a self buildable/whitebox laptop). If the sales figures in the chart are from OEMs then, once adjusted for the fact that over 50% of sales are whitebox desktops and a good chunk of the rest are self assembled desktops you suddenly find desktops to utterly dominate the market.

I have to commend that chart from the article you linked for its positives:
1. Not assuming infinite growth (I have seen line charts estimating laptop sales that completely ignored market sizes and saturation)
2. Properly seperating tablets, notebooks, minis, and desktops. (which reminds me, I again want some sources, I have in the past seen mislabeling occur when someone prepared such a chart where they contradicted their own source)
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Last edited by taltamir; 01-07-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:37 PM   #115
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I applaud both your own and your company's admission that heat is a problem with Ivy Bridge.

You are of benefit to our community here. Thank you for being nothing like the undercover shills employed by some of your competitors.
Agreed This guy is acting the way a rep should act . He wasn't afraid to say mine runns hot . He lays back probably gets a laugh or 2 out of characters like me
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